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General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: tailender on September 24, 2014, 08:18:20 AM

Title: Career county players and their value
Post by: tailender on September 24, 2014, 08:18:20 AM
Morning guys

I try to follow county cricket as much as I can (well as much as the misses will allow)

I follow Lancashire and get down to a few championship and T20 games when I can.  I try not to cast opinions on players much as I am more than aware that they are far better than many of us, but i have been particularly disappointed with Horton at Lancashire for the past few seasons now and cant fathom why he is A) a capped player and B) Vice Captain/Captain??

Lancashire seem to have a nack of signing "naff" players... Saj Mahmood, Mike Smethurst, Jamie Haynes, Scuderi (remember him!) to name a few!

I bet the county circuit is full of players who never seem to be flamboyant/stand out players yet still do very well from the game.

Be interesting to hear what everyone else thinks.....

Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Manormanic on September 24, 2014, 08:26:18 AM
If you looked at it in Moneyball terms, Horton is probably just about worth the money - he has made decent numbers of runs in the past and all that, even if he is an annoying whiny git and clearly wouldn't even get into the Yorkshire Academy side (sorry, but can neer pass up a chance to kick a Lancastrian when they're down!).  As for the others, most counties can probably list a number of players who never quite acheived what it was hoped they might acheive - for Yorkshire I'd mention Richard Stemp, who came from Worcestershire as the next big thing of English spin and proen to be little more than a clubbie, and the legend that was Chris Pickles...
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: tailender on September 24, 2014, 08:32:22 AM
haha any excuse to get one over on a Lancastrian!

It baffles me how such players get through the ranks though. Surely at 19... it was apparent that Horton wasn't going to be anything special, as with many others, or maybe they are brilliant at a young age and plateau?

I wonder how much the likes of Horton will be on, given that he is capped etc
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Manormanic on September 24, 2014, 08:42:16 AM
To be fair, he does average over 37 in first class cricket, which is not totally whack.  If your fifth or sixth batsman did that eery year yo'd be quite happy...problem is, for Lancashire he's more or less the main man.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: tailender on September 24, 2014, 08:44:41 AM
37 is a bloody good effort IMO, but I suppose I always think of a professional player as being someone much better than a club cricketer, truth is I have played with many club cricketers who would get into that Lancashire squad without a doubt, not just Lancashire mind.

Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Stuey on September 24, 2014, 08:46:24 AM
From my experience, Counties (I'll use Essex as my example), focus on certain Schools to provide source of their playing staff and then select clubs for them to play at. If you don't go to the 'right' school or play for the 'right' club you will rarely get a look in. I believe this is why a lot of journeyman cricketers are able to make a living in this country and potentially far better players get missed.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: tailender on September 24, 2014, 08:52:48 AM
From my experience, Counties (I'll use Essex as my example), focus on certain Schools to provide source of their playing staff and then select clubs for them to play at. If you don't go to the 'right' school or play for the 'right' club you will rarely get a look in. I believe this is why a lot of journeyman cricketers are able to make a living in this country and potentially far better players get missed.

Yes, I agree, I think it isn't too far from the truth to assume that for every "average, but the face fits" player that gets a contract, many naturally gifted players slip through the net.  At some point though, it must boil down to wages etc? as it makes financial sense to have 5-6 young lads on particularly low wages with one or two top earners in the squad.  Ive often wondered what goes on behind the scenes at a club i.e the process of selection, the allocation of wages, the allocation of caps etc
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: wayward_hayward on September 24, 2014, 09:00:27 AM
Surely Saj Mahmood is stealing a living at Essex currently. Barely plays for the 2's and normally doesn't bowl!
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: tailender on September 24, 2014, 09:02:28 AM
That's an interesting one.... I heard Mahmood was playing for a team in the Liverpool Competition for a ridiculous amount of cash..... I checked the competition website and he barely got any wickets.  So not only is he robbing a county career he's taking the place of a poor club cricketer paying subs to fund his wages lol!
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Alvaro on September 24, 2014, 09:06:47 AM
It could be that Horton is worth more to the team than the numbers suggest?
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 24, 2014, 09:07:50 AM
From my experience, Counties (I'll use Essex as my example), focus on certain Schools to provide source of their playing staff and then select clubs for them to play at. If you don't go to the 'right' school or play for the 'right' club you will rarely get a look in. I believe this is why a lot of journeyman cricketers are able to make a living in this country and potentially far better players get missed.

Which are the right schools and clubs in Essex?
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: tailender on September 24, 2014, 09:11:24 AM
It could be that Horton is worth more to the team than the numbers suggest?

Interesting point, care to elaborate?
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: 19reading87 on September 24, 2014, 09:51:58 AM
Great topic, however with the fact there are rumoured to be a number of current county players on here. Let's not be to hard towards them. After all they are doing a job the majority of us can only dream of doing
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Twelfth Man on September 24, 2014, 09:55:31 AM
Which are the right schools and clubs in Essex?

Felsted is certainly one on their list. Look up the private schools and you'll have a few for the list.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: iand123 on September 24, 2014, 09:55:54 AM
Pretty much anyone Kent brings in from other counties tend to be at the end of their careers, resulting in a decent start and then either mediocrity until the end of the contract or injury
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Twelfth Man on September 24, 2014, 09:58:08 AM
As for Mahmood, I'm not really sure why he's on their budget. I could understand Shah as he was still performing well at Essex! If Saj gets his contract renewed then something's wrong. I'm suprised actually at the pace level of some of the bowlers in the Sky Sports game, low 70's has been regular!
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Twelfth Man on September 24, 2014, 09:59:00 AM
Pretty much anyone Kent brings in from other counties tend to be at the end of their careers, resulting in a decent start and then either mediocrity until the end of the contract or injury

At least Kent have wrapped up their youngsters on new contracts!
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: tailender on September 24, 2014, 10:01:17 AM
out of curiosity... does anyone know how much county lads are on? from the lower levels up to capped?

BTW... Horton is doing well today....
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Twelfth Man on September 24, 2014, 10:07:05 AM
out of curiosity... does anyone know how much county lads are on? from the lower levels up to capped?

BTW... Horton is doing well today....

Gone! Isn't it from like 12,000-15,000 and then up? That's from being graduated from the Academy to the first team squad I think.. Probably wrong!
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Manormanic on September 24, 2014, 10:11:09 AM
Great topic, however with the fact there are rumoured to be a number of current county players on here. Let's not be to hard towards them. After all they are doing a job the majority of us can only dream of doing

rumoured by whom exactly?
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: iand123 on September 24, 2014, 10:18:20 AM
At least Kent have wrapped up their youngsters on new contracts!

Yeah that was good news. Quite a few members were unhappy with Jones being let go but Sam billings has shown he's the future along with a lot of these other youngsters. Can't imagine key or Stevens will go on for much longer. Really could do with some more strike bowlers, was a shame to lose bollinger early
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: tailender on September 24, 2014, 10:18:24 AM
Gone! Isn't it from like 12,000-15,000 and then up? That's from being graduated from the Academy to the first team squad I think.. Probably wrong!

Lol I was being a little sarcastic... Horton is LBW literally 95% of the time!

15,000 seems about right to be honest.  I read that Lou Vincent was on 20,000 at Sussex! wonder how much capped lads are on?
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Leddster138 on September 24, 2014, 10:25:32 AM
IMO the problem with county cricket (and some aspects of club cricket) is that selection always comes down to someones opinion. In most sports if you constantly perform eventually you'll play at the highest level as you'll pull the club with you. In cricket if you smash 3000 runs a season and your club wins your local premier league, you'll still not get selected to play any higher unless someone at a county chooses to give you an opportunity. This disconnection then breeds complacency in the county circuit with journeymen making a living out of the game that wouldn't perform much better if they played locally on a Saturday. Fair play to them, why wouldn't you?! but I wouldn't want to pay to watch it. I also wouldn't strive to have aspirations of playing professionally if I felt it was a "face fits" situation.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: tailender on September 24, 2014, 10:33:17 AM
Good point Leddster,

I think cricket will always be a sport in which the "face fits" approach will apply, not solely, but it will apply. 

Other selection policies baffle me too, lets take James Taylor at Notts... Used to trial with Worcestershire and was never given a contract, yet the same lad signs for Notts, wins the championship and is in the England set up... where would he be if Notts didn't sign him?
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Twelfth Man on September 24, 2014, 10:38:04 AM
Yeah that was good news. Quite a few members were unhappy with Jones being let go but Sam billings has shown he's the future along with a lot of these other youngsters. Can't imagine key or Stevens will go on for much longer. Really could do with some more strike bowlers, was a shame to lose bollinger early

Keeping the likes of Blake, Billings & Riley etc is imperative! Keep the local unit and add a bit more experience. Agreed on the bowling unit, Claydon's just your seasoned player who rocks up and bowls haha. There's young Hunn but gets a bit of tap.. Just need to find a seamer or two with some first class wickets under their belt but not 30+ in age! Dougy did the job as the overseas.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Kulli on September 24, 2014, 10:38:30 AM
Good point Leddster,

I think cricket will always be a sport in which the "face fits" approach will apply, not solely, but it will apply. 

Other selection policies baffle me too, lets take James Taylor at Notts... Used to trial with Worcestershire and was never given a contract, yet the same lad signs for Notts, wins the championship and is in the England set up... where would he be if Notts didn't sign him?

Still at Leicestershire?
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Twelfth Man on September 24, 2014, 10:39:50 AM
Good point Leddster,

I think cricket will always be a sport in which the "face fits" approach will apply, not solely, but it will apply. 

Other selection policies baffle me too, lets take James Taylor at Notts... Used to trial with Worcestershire and was never given a contract, yet the same lad signs for Notts, wins the championship and is in the England set up... where would he be if Notts didn't sign him?

Probably Leicestershire skipper and the local hero!
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: tailender on September 24, 2014, 10:45:09 AM
Lol... ahh true!
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Stuey on September 24, 2014, 12:35:47 PM
Felsted is certainly one on their list. Look up the private schools and you'll have a few for the list.
Felsted School is their breeding ground plus a few other private schools such as Brentwood school
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Stuey on September 24, 2014, 12:50:06 PM
IMO the problem with county cricket (and some aspects of club cricket) is that selection always comes down to someones opinion. In most sports if you constantly perform eventually you'll play at the highest level as you'll pull the club with you. In cricket if you smash 3000 runs a season and your club wins your local premier league, you'll still not get selected to play any higher unless someone at a county chooses to give you an opportunity. This disconnection then breeds complacency in the county circuit with journeymen making a living out of the game that wouldn't perform much better if they played locally on a Saturday. Fair play to them, why wouldn't you?! but I wouldn't want to pay to watch it. I also wouldn't strive to have aspirations of playing professionally if I felt it was a "face fits" situation.
This is what makes me laugh with the ECB plan around premier leagues structures built to provide players for the County game, the counties don't look at club cricket and if they are honest they couldn't care a less about it.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: tailender on September 24, 2014, 12:55:40 PM
Absolutely agree Stuey,

Club cricket is very rarely considered by countys unless their players need some match time, they then charge out their players are silly rates!

wonder how mnay lads get their foot in the door through "club form"
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Manormanic on September 24, 2014, 01:05:55 PM
Still at Leicestershire?

Was just thinking - if the other counties stopped poaching them, Leicestershire would have a pretty decent if seamer heavy side at the moment:

Josh Cobb
Ned Eckersley
James Taylor
Darren Stevens
Luke Wright
Shiv Thakor
Jim Allenby
Stuart Broad
Nathan Buck
Harry Gurney
David Masters
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Twelfth Man on September 24, 2014, 01:21:00 PM
Absolutely agree Stuey,

Club cricket is very rarely considered by countys unless their players need some match time, they then charge out their players are silly rates!

wonder how mnay lads get their foot in the door through "club form"

I reckon Australia's state sides will pick more players through their respective Premier Leagues than the English counties have ever done!
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Twelfth Man on September 24, 2014, 01:21:43 PM
Was just thinking - if the other counties stopped poaching them, Leicestershire would have a pretty decent if seamer heavy side at the moment:

Josh Cobb
Ned Eckersley
James Taylor
Darren Stevens
Luke Wright
Shiv Thakor
Jim Allenby
Stuart Broad
Nathan Buck
Harry Gurney
David Masters

I wonder which county would actually have the best home grown side, what do people reckon? Try and name a team if you can
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Stuey on September 24, 2014, 01:27:21 PM
I reckon Australia's state sides will pick more players through their respective Premier Leagues than the English counties have ever done!
Different structure but you are right. When I was there back 01/02, the test players turned out for their club sides and that was an ashes summer! Brett lee played for Mosman, imagine rocking up on a Saturday to play him in his prime! :o
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Alvaro on September 24, 2014, 01:28:59 PM
I wonder which county would actually have the best home grown side, what do people reckon? Try and name a team if you can

YARKKKKKshire

They basically won the championship with homegrown players. Swap in Pyrah for Brooks and job done.

Lyth
Lees
Root
Gale
Bairstow
Leaning
Rashid
Breslad
Pyrah
Patterson
Sidebottom

Done.

 :D
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Twelfth Man on September 24, 2014, 01:30:40 PM
Different structure but you are right. When I was there back 01/02, the test players turned out for their club sides and that was an ashes summer! Brett lee played for Mosman, imagine rocking up on a Saturday to play him in his prime! :o

The guys still player for their club sides, maybe not all test players. O'Keefe who's going to the UAE with the Australian test squad's playing the first round of club cricket this week for Manly is just one example. Siddle's played a fair bit and so has James Pattinson. I'm not sure on the guys who're up in the QLD area mind.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Twelfth Man on September 24, 2014, 01:31:31 PM
YARKKKKKshire

They basically won the championship with homegrown players. Swap in Pyrah for Brooks and job done.

Lyth
Lees
Root
Gale
Bairstow
Leaning
Rashid
Breslad
Pyrah
Patterson
Sidebottom

Done.

 :D

I should have seen this coming, there's a few of you about just waiting for somebody like me to ask such a question!  ;) So we've got a Leicestershire & Yorkshire side.. Who else?
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: arsenal123 on September 24, 2014, 01:35:50 PM
Varun Chopra
Alastair Cook
Ravi Bopara
Adam Wheater
Tom Westley
Ben Foakes
James Foster
Graham Napier
Reece Topley
Ant Palladino


Can't think of a good 11th man for the side!  ???
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Stuey on September 24, 2014, 01:42:08 PM
Varun Chopra
Alastair Cook
Ravi Bopara
Adam Wheater
Tom Westley
Ben Foakes
James Foster
Graham Napier
Reece Topley
Ant Palladino


Can't think of a good 11th man for the side!  ???
I'll fill in  :D
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Alvaro on September 24, 2014, 01:47:16 PM
I should have seen this coming, there's a few of you about just waiting for somebody like me to ask such a question!  ;) So we've got a Leicestershire & Yorkshire side.. Who else?

I'm a Gloucestershite boy... We'll literally take anyone.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: ajmw89 on September 24, 2014, 02:03:17 PM
Surrey's would be:
Carberry
Ansari
Burns
Sibley
Roy
Evans
Wilson
Curran
Meaker
Dunn
Dernbach
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Neon Cricket on September 24, 2014, 02:05:32 PM
Varun Chopra
Alastair Cook
Ravi Bopara
Adam Wheater
Tom Westley
Ben Foakes
James Foster
Graham Napier
Reece Topley
Ant Palladino


Can't think of a good 11th man for the side!  ???

Chuck Tymal Mills in there and you're onto a winner!
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Twelfth Man on September 24, 2014, 02:07:04 PM
I'm a Gloucestershite boy... We'll literally take anyone.

Vikram Banerjee - First class batting average of 9.73, bowling average of 46.29 from 43 matches. The longer format clearly not his favoured game!
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Twelfth Man on September 24, 2014, 02:09:04 PM
Chuck Tymal Mills in there and you're onto a winner!

I'd agree with chucking Mills in there if you're struggling for an 11th...

How about Somerset? They'd be pretty handy in the batting department
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 24, 2014, 02:25:23 PM
Varun Chopra
Alastair Cook
Ravi Bopara
Adam Wheater
Tom Westley
Ben Foakes
James Foster
Graham Napier
Reece Topley
Ant Palladino


Can't think of a good 11th man for the side!  ???

Do you actually follow Essex cricket?
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Alvaro on September 24, 2014, 02:32:38 PM
Do you actually follow Essex cricket?

to be fair, they're homegrown Essex players, so they could in theory be banded as an Essex XI even though they're now at other counties.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Alvaro on September 24, 2014, 02:33:30 PM
Vikram Banerjee - First class batting average of 9.73, bowling average of 46.29 from 43 matches. The longer format clearly not his favoured game!
There are many, many like him. Check out Paul Muchall!
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Stuey on September 24, 2014, 02:41:05 PM
Chuck Tymal Mills in there and you're onto a winner!
From next door, Suffolk.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: 400notout on September 24, 2014, 02:48:10 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Shankar (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Shankar)

Stole a living, definitely!
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Stuey on September 24, 2014, 02:53:18 PM
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Shankar[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Shankar[/url])

Stole a living, definitely!

Where can I find this anti aging machine? :)

Doubts about his age also circulated at Lancashire, with rumours saying his was 3 years older than he claimed he was. Sutton confronted Shankar on these rumours, and when asked why the rumours existed, Shankar claimed he was on a life support machine for the first three years of his life, saying this made his body physically three years younger than it was. When Sutton questioned the fact he would still continue to grow under these circumstances, he replied "no I didn't" and proceeded to walk off.

Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Twelfth Man on September 24, 2014, 02:54:41 PM
From next door, Suffolk.

From Suffolk yes, but came through Essex's Academy for the later age groups and Development side. (He only started playing around 15)
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Twelfth Man on September 24, 2014, 02:55:52 PM
[url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Shankar[/url] ([url]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adrian_Shankar[/url])

Stole a living, definitely!


This is literally the winner on all fronts for robbing a living!
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: iand123 on September 24, 2014, 02:57:46 PM
Was just thinking - if the other counties stopped poaching them, Leicestershire would have a pretty decent if seamer heavy side at the moment:

Josh Cobb
Ned Eckersley
James Taylor
Darren Stevens
Luke Wright
Shiv Thakor
Jim Allenby
Stuart Broad
Nathan Buck
Harry Gurney
David Masters

Not sure Kent can be claimed to have poached Darren Stevens, he was released by Leics
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Twelfth Man on September 24, 2014, 02:58:48 PM
There are many, many like him. Check out Paul Muchall!

To be fair to Muchall, he's only played 4 FC games 2 List A! Average of 16 though explains this...

Jeremy Snape's FC bowling average was 49.4, from 121 FC matches. Handy in the shorter forms though so can just count as the OD specialist!
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Stuey on September 24, 2014, 02:59:18 PM
From Suffolk yes, but came through Essex's Academy for the later age groups and Development side. (He only started playing around 15)
I guess that means I can't be the 11th man :(
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 24, 2014, 03:00:10 PM
to be fair, they're homegrown Essex players, so they could in theory be banded as an Essex XI even though they're now at other counties.

Wasn't really my point. Check the current Essex side?
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Twelfth Man on September 24, 2014, 03:07:58 PM
Wasn't really my point. Check the current Essex side?

Current team playing vs Worcestershire is:

Westley
Browne
Smith - Not from Essex or Academy system
Bopara
Foster
Ryder - Overseas
Velani - Young and unproven in FC cricket
Napier
Masters
Panesar - Not from Essex or Academy system
Porter - Young and unproven in FC cricket

Other players in the squad: Craddock, Foakes, Mahmood, Hassan, Mickleburgh, Phillips, Ramsden, Topley and Ten Do'

Who from these sides would you put in, instead of the team of Essex players stated? (RTD could be questionable?)

Varun Chopra
Alastair Cook
Ravi Bopara
Adam Wheater
Tom Westley
Ben Foakes
James Foster
Graham Napier
Reece Topley
Ant Palladino


Can't think of a good 11th man for the side!  ???
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 24, 2014, 03:38:39 PM
Nick Browne and Jamie Porter.

Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Sam on September 24, 2014, 03:45:31 PM
http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/396249.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/396249.html)

Joe Gatting - some may say feeding off his uncles success?
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Twelfth Man on September 24, 2014, 04:12:46 PM
Nick Browne and Jamie Porter.

Surely just a wind up! Browne averages 37, he'd only be put in ahead of Wheater possibly but he averages 39. Porter's played two games
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Twelfth Man on September 24, 2014, 04:13:29 PM
[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/396249.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/396249.html[/url])

Joe Gatting - some may say feeding off his uncles success?


Not a bad shout! Only 27's as a batsman
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 24, 2014, 04:21:59 PM
Surely just a wind up! Browne averages 37, he'd only be put in ahead of Wheater possibly but he averages 39. Porter's played two games

Are we talking all-time greatest Essex XIs, or bemoaning lack of home-grown players?

Porter is in the current Essex side ahead of Mills.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 24, 2014, 04:24:14 PM
I think being a county cricketer is probably a much tougher gig if you are not performing well than if you are. There are actually very few 'robbing' a living.

Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Twelfth Man on September 24, 2014, 06:08:55 PM
Are we talking all-time greatest Essex XIs, or bemoaning lack of home-grown players?

Porter is in the current Essex side ahead of Mills.

Not an all-time greatest. But players currently still in the game who have gone through the academy. That's what I was going on anyway!

Porter's ahead because Tymal Mills is injured!
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Twelfth Man on September 24, 2014, 06:10:19 PM
I think being a county cricketer is probably a much tougher gig if you are not performing well than if you are. There are actually very few 'robbing' a living.

Pro athletes have to have some kind of luck, as ultimately form controls your career.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: uknsaunders on September 24, 2014, 06:31:20 PM
Harsh but if County Cricket is a breeding ground for England then 50% of them are failing. Excluding the guys breaking through, how many could step up and play for England? They have all the technology and coaches in the world to help them as well as fitness programmes to keep them in peak physical shape. In some respects our professionals should be the best cricketers in the world given the facilities and full time contracts.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: T-Rapta on September 24, 2014, 06:38:13 PM
Chuck Tymal Mills in there and you're onto a winner!

Mills is leaving Essex.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Alvaro on September 24, 2014, 06:39:40 PM
Interesting. Sussex?
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 24, 2014, 06:47:30 PM
I heard Worcester.

.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: ProCricketer1982 on September 24, 2014, 07:09:05 PM
I think being a county cricketer is probably a much tougher gig if you are not performing well than if you are. There are actually very few 'robbing' a living.

There seem to be a lot of very avg cricketers making a living. That should not happen. Sack them and bring on youth. A agent cricket is meaningless, sooner people realise it and start making it about enjoyment again the better. Too much like football currently.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 24, 2014, 07:28:07 PM
I think county cricket is currently very strong.

The main problem is the amount of 20/20.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Bulldog Cricket on September 24, 2014, 08:12:21 PM
I have never played country cricket so cant comment from experience but my brother in law played for Somerset and I would say that playing on the country circuit and trying to make a living is anything but easy. The wages that your average player earns is anything but robbery particularly if you are a fast bowler. I would be interested to hear what Paul Aldred thinks of this thread having slogged the county circuit for a number of years.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Bulldog Cricket on September 24, 2014, 08:32:48 PM
There seem to be a lot of very avg cricketers making a living. That should not happen. Sack them and bring on youth. A agent cricket is meaningless, sooner people realise it and start making it about enjoyment again the better. Too much like football currently.

Why not ? What about an average accountant making a living ? and average project manager ? , an average bin man ? not everyone can be at the top of their profession so why can't an average cricketer earn a wage from playing cricket ?
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Sam on September 24, 2014, 08:39:35 PM
For sportsmen nowadays county cricket wages are stunning.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Bulldog Cricket on September 24, 2014, 08:42:10 PM
For sportsmen nowadays county cricket wages are stunning.

Can you provide an example please ?
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: GarrettJ on September 24, 2014, 08:44:23 PM
What do average/normal ounty cricketers get paid?
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Bulldog Cricket on September 24, 2014, 08:45:44 PM
Sam will be able to tell us hopefully.

Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Bulldog Cricket on September 24, 2014, 08:53:31 PM
I would say the only players earning good money from cricket are the international players on central contracts or playing in the IPL etc. Even then they are earning less than the equivalent footballer, tennis player, golfer etc.

A county cricketer doesn't earn huge money.
 
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 24, 2014, 08:56:09 PM
About £60K basic, I think.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: GarrettJ on September 24, 2014, 08:56:53 PM
I don't think they earn thousands per week like average footy players in league 1
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Manormanic on September 24, 2014, 08:57:01 PM
YARKKKKKshire

They basically won the championship with homegrown players. Swap in Pyrah for Brooks and job done.

Lyth
Lees
Root
Gale
Bairstow
Leaning
Rashid
Breslad
Pyrah
Patterson
Sidebottom

Done.

 :D

Don't even need Maniac strictly speaking - Plunkett is a born and bred Tyke!
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Cowcorner on September 24, 2014, 08:59:10 PM
(http://i1270.photobucket.com/albums/jj614/cowcorner/C68AB38E-8D6C-4F88-A286-3B1A1A8CB1CE_zpsdsom0ucy.jpg) (http://s1270.photobucket.com/user/cowcorner/media/C68AB38E-8D6C-4F88-A286-3B1A1A8CB1CE_zpsdsom0ucy.jpg.html)

This image is from a comparison article in all out cricket showing what a week of Wayne Rooney's wages will buy in county cricket. That is why his gurning mug is at the centre of the picture.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Bulldog Cricket on September 24, 2014, 08:59:43 PM
About £60K basic, I think.

a bit less I think for an average county cricketer, but even at £60k, well an average footballer earns that a week.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Bulldog Cricket on September 24, 2014, 09:01:28 PM
Great stuff that Cowcorner. So around £40k for a seasoned opening bat.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Manormanic on September 25, 2014, 07:20:20 AM
Depends who you play for too - some counties such as Lancashire, Notts and Surrey pay well up to the top end of the sclae and others pay rather less.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Alvaro on September 25, 2014, 07:47:15 AM
And they're all well patronised test match ground counties.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 25, 2014, 10:28:51 AM
Much as I would have loved to have done it, I don't doubt being a county cricketer is hard work.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Stuey on September 25, 2014, 12:28:12 PM
Much as I would have loved to have done it, I don't doubt being a county cricketer is hard work.
You are still getting paid to do something you love, I would imagine it gets harder when you have a family, but so do most jobs.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 25, 2014, 12:50:34 PM
I expect it is possible to fall out of love with cricket.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Stuey on September 25, 2014, 12:56:09 PM
I expect it is possible to fall out of love with cricket.
I've heard that rumour too :)
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: ppccopener on September 25, 2014, 01:30:06 PM
saj mamood just released by Essex
not going to put a downer on the guy but if there is anyone who tops the 'less value for money' category i'm yet to see him...
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on September 25, 2014, 07:04:27 PM
One thing about a county pro is that when you have a family it's got to be tough. Could be away for long periods ( 4 day games across the country is 4 days playing plus travel I would guess at least a day before then day after so basically a week) plus training every day. Then in winter tours, pre-season training.

Then you have to earn in winter as well. 2nd job or play in Aus, New Zealand etc
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: joeylough on September 25, 2014, 07:55:04 PM
Sorry to go back to the orginal Lancs man but ill throw a few words in.

Horton ave 37.88
Lumb ave 35.48
Carberry 43.22
Morgan 36.12
Hales 36.65
Ballance 55.83
Bopara 40.26
Bell 39.67
Ali 38.77
Rogers 50.03

Just thrown in a few England players and one Aussie who he is playing against.

Personally I see a decent county player between 35-45 then anything above that as a great county player that should be playing international level.

I think that one think we always forget to remember is that they are also playing against better bowlers. So when an average of 37.88 over a career at amateur level maybe the best we will the average at the next level can only be harder to improve as I said before better bowlers!

In my eyes if you have two teams at the same level as each other player for player you could in theory get the same averages running through.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 25, 2014, 09:19:07 PM
They play against better bowlers? No way!  :o
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: tailender on September 26, 2014, 11:56:13 AM
Sorry to go back to the orginal Lancs man but ill throw a few words in.

Horton ave 37.88
Lumb ave 35.48
Carberry 43.22
Morgan 36.12
Hales 36.65
Ballance 55.83
Bopara 40.26
Bell 39.67
Ali 38.77
Rogers 50.03

Just thrown in a few England players and one Aussie who he is playing against.

Personally I see a decent county player between 35-45 then anything above that as a great county player that should be playing international level.

I think that one think we always forget to remember is that they are also playing against better bowlers. So when an average of 37.88 over a career at amateur level maybe the best we will the average at the next level can only be harder to improve as I said before better bowlers!

In my eyes if you have two teams at the same level as each other player for player you could in theory get the same averages running through.

Are you honestly suggesting that Paul Horton should be playing international cricket?  you have lost your marbles completely! fair enough, he can grind out an innings and hang a round for a bit, but I have never seen him take an attack apart nor have I seen him play like an international player. 
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: smilley792 on September 26, 2014, 12:01:40 PM
Are you honestly suggesting that Paul Horton should be playing international cricket?  you have lost your marbles completely! fair enough, he can grind out an innings and hang a round for a bit, but I have never seen him take an attack apart nor have I seen him play like an international player.

Nope, he's just suggesting Horton has a decent enough average to suggest he's not robbing a living. As previously accused.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: tailender on September 26, 2014, 12:05:23 PM
Oh... so where you say any player averaging over 35 should be playing international cricket.... you didn't mean that?

Horton, like many other players on the county circuit (and I don't wish to single out Horton I just used him as an example because I am a lancs fan) play week in week out and never seem to do anything.  Hortons average has benefited from the fact that he had 2 outstanding years.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Bulldog Cricket on September 26, 2014, 12:06:33 PM
Are you guys at work ?
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: TangoWhiskey on September 26, 2014, 12:07:55 PM
Oh... so where you say any player averaging over 35 should be playing international cricket.... you didn't mean that?

Horton, like many other players on the county circuit (and I don't wish to single out Horton I just used him as an example because I am a lancs fan) play week in week out and never seem to do anything.  Hortons average has benefited from the fact that he had 2 outstanding years.

Read again buddy, he quite clearly says 35-45 is a decent county player and an average over 45 is international standard...
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: El Nino on September 26, 2014, 12:09:22 PM
Oh... so where you say any player averaging over 35 should be playing international cricket.... you didn't mean that?

Horton, like many other players on the county circuit (and I don't wish to single out Horton I just used him as an example because I am a lancs fan) play week in week out and never seem to do anything.  Hortons average has benefited from the fact that he had 2 outstanding years.
He said 35-45 are decent county players, 45+ should be playing international cricket.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: tailender on September 26, 2014, 12:10:03 PM
Ah my bad.... been a long morning
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Kulli on September 26, 2014, 12:11:03 PM
Oh... so where you say any player averaging over 35 should be playing international cricket.... you didn't mean that?

Horton, like many other players on the county circuit (and I don't wish to single out Horton I just used him as an example because I am a lancs fan) play week in week out and never seem to do anything.  Hortons average has benefited from the fact that he had 2 outstanding years.

It wasn't him that said it, and the guy that said it said anyone averaging over 45.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 26, 2014, 12:23:49 PM
I hate it when people get obsessed with averages.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Manormanic on September 26, 2014, 12:34:37 PM
Agree with that.  You have to take into account how many of their runs were made in divisions one and two respectively, whether they had the option of a boost from time in Zimbabwe (Ballance and Horton both have) and numerous other factors...
Title: Re: Career county players and their value
Post by: Buzz on September 26, 2014, 12:35:06 PM
FYI I have changed the title of this thread to be something a little less controversial.
Title: Re: Career county players and their value
Post by: Manormanic on September 26, 2014, 12:36:11 PM
FYI I have changed the title of this thread to be something a little less controversial.

you could be a politician!  ;)
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Seniorplayer on September 26, 2014, 12:42:15 PM
Not so sure many contracted county players need to earn in the winter or a second job anymore as the contracts are usually all year round.
Title: Re: Career county players and their value
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 26, 2014, 01:14:17 PM
It should have been 'stealing' not 'robbing', in any case.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on September 26, 2014, 01:16:20 PM
Agree with that.  You have to take into account how many of their runs were made in divisions one and two respectively, whether they had the option of a boost from time in Zimbabwe (Ballance and Horton both have) and numerous other factors...

It's probably the same people that get obsessed with how much bats weigh?
Title: Re: Career county players and their value
Post by: ProCricketer1982 on September 26, 2014, 06:40:19 PM
Almost everyone could point to people in their work place who are not upto it or are nothing special that others could do (with traini. Etc), however, the difference is most work is boring.. Cricket isn't, it's great fun and earning 40k a year just to play cricket (given you get free kit, accompanied, food etc) is a bloody huge wage
Title: Re: Career county players and their value
Post by: skip1973 on September 27, 2014, 02:08:23 AM
Almost everyone could point to people in their work place who are not upto it or are nothing special that others could do (with traini. Etc), however, the difference is most work is boring.. Cricket isn't, it's great fun and earning 40k a year just to play cricket (given you get free kit, accompanied, food etc) is a bloody huge wage
Considering they may get to do it for 10 years out of a 40 year working life it's not huge.
Title: Re: Career county players and their value
Post by: lazza32 on September 27, 2014, 02:24:38 AM
What's the average wage in Britain?

Sent from my D6503 using Tapatalk

Title: Re: Career county players and their value
Post by: ProCricketer1982 on September 27, 2014, 06:54:34 AM
Considering they may get to do it for 10 years out of a 40 year working life it's not huge.

They are allowed to retrain or do different roles, like coaching etc, it's not hit 35 and then retire. Afraid only bankers and MPs get to do that
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: jrb1984 on September 27, 2014, 07:47:30 AM
Surrey's would be:
Carberry
Ansari
Burns
Sibley
Roy
Evans
Wilson
Curran
Meaker
Dunn
Dernbach

I may be a biased Sussex fan but surely Jordan would be in ahead of any of those seamers?
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Manormanic on September 27, 2014, 09:08:31 AM
I may be a biased Sussex fan but surely Jordan would be in ahead of any of those seamers?

not home grown though, is he?  Nor for that matter is Dernbach.  Or Curran.  Or Roy. Or Meaker.  South Africa ceased to be a dominion of Surrey some 140 years ago old chap!
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: jrb1984 on September 28, 2014, 02:22:45 PM
not home grown though, is he?  Nor for that matter is Dernbach.  Or Curran.  Or Roy. Or Meaker.  South Africa ceased to be a dominion of Surrey some 140 years ago old chap!

I don't know much about the others but Roy was brought through system at Reigate Priory and regardless of where he was born he plays for England. Matt Prior was born in Jo'burg but is as Sussex as they come. Where do you draw the line?
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Manormanic on September 28, 2014, 03:55:24 PM
I don't know much about the others but Roy was brought through system at Reigate Priory and regardless of where he was born he plays for England. Matt Prior was born in Jo'burg but is as Sussex as they come. Where do you draw the line?

For the purposes of this discussion I think it needs to be born and bred in the county.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: TangoWhiskey on September 29, 2014, 10:29:01 AM
For the purposes of this discussion I think it needs to be born and bred in the county.

I disagree. You're practically saying that anyone not born in one of the 18 counties are not allowed to play pro cricket. Surely it would just be home grown as in brought up through the youth system?
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Manormanic on September 29, 2014, 02:21:24 PM
I disagree. You're practically saying that anyone not born in one of the 18 counties are not allowed to play pro cricket. Surely it would just be home grown as in brought up through the youth system?

No, I'm just saying that for the purposes of discussing who has the best home grown side, I want them to be home grown, not imported from Yarpieland.
Title: Re: County players robbing a living
Post by: Twelfth Man on September 30, 2014, 05:07:47 AM
No, I'm just saying that for the purposes of discussing who has the best home grown side, I want them to be home grown, not imported from Yarpieland.

Think my question hijacked the thread!