Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => World Cricket => England => Topic started by: TangoWhiskey on February 20, 2015, 09:51:17 AM
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England in World Cup woe yadda yadda yadda. Familiar de ja vu.
In my opinion the problems of the England team lie entirely at the door of gross mismanagement of the team. Moores doesn't cut it as an international coach. The team selectors made a complete hash of selecting a captain, dropping Cook in favour of an equally out of form Morgan which struck me as the classic one step forward two steps back. Team selection wrong with no one in the side who is going to smoke 70 off 30 until 5th drop and a bowling unit that could be replaced by one bowling machine and no one could tell the difference.
The problem I have is how can this change? Who is the ECB answerable to? The public aren't happy with the direction the England team has gone in since early 2013, but who at the end of the day is carrying the can? This insular organisation that is the ECB doesn't seem like it can change itself, but how is anyone going to force it? Who appoints people like Paul Downton, why aren't the fans given some say? How would fans even go about invoking a change in leadership at the top short of boycotting games (something which never works might I add).
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follow the full toss blog and you will get some sensible thoughts on the subject
but Downton, Moores and Saker should all loose their jobs. Giles Clarke should also be hounded out (not happening, however he is moving on a bit)
better coaching will create a better environment. I don't believe that there are players who are better who are not being picked (even KP, is past it really, sadly, and not playing regularly enough) You can't fault the selectors for not picking Stokes - you can fault them for not picking Hales and Taylor 18 months ago, but that time has gone.
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Stop paying to watch that shower of (No Swearing Please)! I've just cancelled my plans to go to an ODI in June as I refuse to spend my hard earned money on watching 11 disinterested blokes get humiliated! (And I'm sure I could find something like that for free on the internet if I looked for it!)
If the public stop paying to attend matches the EBC might stand up and take notice.
Then again, being the ECB, they might not...
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Problem starts at the top and is like a cancer of bs.
Agree with Buzz on the shake up. However, you have to ask why KP (who had the best batting average on the winter ashes tour) was dumped. Stokes was another shining light and has gone backwards, despite some fantastic innings outside the England setup. The environment clearly isn't right for players to suceed and reach their potential.
Another massive problem is the whole county structure. In an ideal world pretty much every player should be good enough to play for England, or have the potential to do so. We don't have 18 counties worth of England talent but insist on supporting it. Our cricket would become much more competitive in a 14/12/ even 10 team setup. Beef up the minor counties to semi pro and use that level for players to learn their trade, with 4/5 minor counties feeding into 1 first class setup. We get by because we aren't exposed often thanks to home conditions and some exceptional performances. You fear for the test team when Anderson/Bell/Cook depart and the ODI side is already a shambles.
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follow the full toss blog and you will get some sensible thoughts on the subject
but Downton, Moores and Saker should all loose their jobs. Giles Clarke should also be hounded out (not happening, however he is moving on a bit)
better coaching will create a better environment. I don't believe that there are players who are better who are not being picked (even KP, is past it really, sadly, and not playing regularly enough) You can't fault the selectors for not picking Stokes - you can fault them for not picking Hales and Taylor 18 months ago, but that time has gone.
I agree, they should lose their jobs. But at the end of the day, who are they answering to? Can't be the public else they would have been out long ago.
I don't think KP should be in the side. The team needs to move forward, KP was the oldest player and hadn't been performing. However I also believe in that case that means Bell, Morgan and Cook should have gone too at the same time from the ODI set up and the young guns, your Taylor's, Hale's, Roy's etc should have been brought in and blooded in the year leading up to this WC. As it is, we have sacked and seriously demoralised our test skipper and potentially England's greastest test run scorer and replaced him with another bloke who can't score any runs under the myth that he is a better captain.
I don't know where the shouts for Morgan to skipper the side came from, he's never done anything that made me think he was up to the job and the fact he had as few runs as Cook when he succeded him is an absolute farce.
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funny the demise, they have gone from being number number 1 and winning the ashes not so long ago to this.
i genuinely think there are too many old farts running the game.
the game is changing/evolving and we need to keep up with the times.
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Start at the top. As I've said before nothing will change in English cricket unless the old boys club is kicked out.
if they can survive after last year's ashes humiliation then nothing will change. In fact did Giles Clark not get a promotion
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I agree with the comment above and to some extent KP.
County cricket isn't a good enough standard to prepare people for international cricket.
A good example of this in Moeen Ali. Now I'm a Worester fan and a huge fan of his and for the previous few years scoring runs in the county game has looked effortless for him, however at international level he has been found out by consistent short pitched bowling. He is good enough and young enough to work on this but why hasn't he experienced they type of cricket day in day out for the last however many seasons.
There are a number of ways county cricket could be made stronger such as less teams but we could also go back to the days with two overseas player and more kolpak players.
I know people didn't like it and thought it stopped England players coming through but what it did mean was those English players coming through were good player brought up playing hard cricket.
Australia have a good side and they have a much smaller pool of players to choose from England having a smaller pool isn't necessarily a bad thing.
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The question I was asking is how do we, the fans, introduce a change into the ECB?
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The question I was asking is how do we, the fans, introduce a change into the ECB?
you stop going to the matches - as has been happening.
But they are so arrogant, they wont recognise the issue.
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I think that the ECB has always had issues and in many respects they are going back to the bad old days of showing huge reluctance to pick men in form, then having a self satisfied smile when they drop them having not given them a chance to establish themselves. They always hated it when they were forced to pick players on weight of runs or wickets, and it's all the more frustrating when they stay loyal to their faves. Having said that, Australia have been just as guilty in the past, but at least they seem to have learned from their mistakes.
The other point is that England have lost some key players who weren't everyone's cup of tea but were very effective. ( and I don't mean KP).
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you stop going to the matches - as has been happening.
But they are so arrogant, they wont recognise the issue.
The problem is that so many of the tickets to test matches and ODI are sold to corporate organisations and sponsors that when us, the fans, stop turning up that the powers that be don't realise
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The problem is the ecb are accountable to pretty much nobody, which is wrong. I personally would like to see the government get off their arses and make all sporting bodies accountable to the people they think they are trying to support. Would Downton or Moores have been appointed had the ECB had to answer to Trustees made up of fans and area experts - bit like a PLC or a fans trust?
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#vetoEnglandCricket Let's get it trending on Twitter!
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#vetoEnglandCricket Let's get it trending on Twitter!
:D :D :D :D :D :D the unlikeliest anarchist I ever did see! :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
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I'm Tims_Pants on twitter. Follow me and retweet!
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retweeted
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I already have Ashes test and one day tickets though...
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I think there are far too many things wrong with the whole system.
ECB is corrupt, poorly run and has career people not cricket minded people working and leading in it.
18 counties is just too many pro teams currently, the talent pool just isn't there to support it meaning below par cricketers are pro's
Far too many 'coaches' around who aren't really very good but have the good old ecb quals
sky/FTV debate
Less people wanting to play for various reasons time, travel, game being played, cost, aggressive attitude, poor umpiring, weather
outdated district/county set ups that all bar those involved view with distrust
Cricket is very poor at keeping it's players active, by that I mean with indoor cricket during the winter etc etc.. courses for kids AND adults (which is affordable!!)
At the end of the day, ECB and all its squads are poorly run, poorly led, cost a lot and have too many egos. It needs clearing out.
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Downton out. Moores out. Clarke out. Pretty much replace the lot from captain up.
Drop all county level cricket to ten sides only. 4 day 1 day and t20.
Allow mavericks to prosper in the game. Of a technique works for someone. Then work on other aspects. Don't try to alter any actions or idiosyncrasies that work. just because it doesn't match the coaches manual. Doesn't mean it doesn't work.
Bring players through quicker. If say sam billings is averaging 85 in 50 over cricket get him. In the england set up. This see if he can do not for another 2 years crap is wasting the talent while it is at its peak.
Take odis seriously. Don't keep resting all your best players from odi series over and over again. To then randomly play them on a world cup cos there your best (joe do you know if they've only played 10% of the previous 4 years odis!!)
Teach the current players coaches and captain to speak simple.english to the media. Spouting crap like morgan did after this game. And cook and moores usually spout is ridiculous.
More money in grass roots cricket!
Remove retired limits in junior cricket.
Proper training courses for coaches by guys like ian pont etc.
Junior coaches monotored to ensure people selected on merit not daddies money.
Umpire standards raised at low level cricket.
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I'd get at least some cricket back on free to air TV. I know beeb etc don't want 5 day tests, but odi /t20 would fit in (they all have enough bloody channels!)
Sky would benefit massively if one game a series was on TV. Interest would go up for the rest of a series. Or show one County t20 a month on beeb, then people would want to see more.
Reduce the cost of going to live matches as well. I'm not going to anything this year for first time in ages - and that is because it costs to much.
Agree as well with all the corporate jargon being too much. It all sounds like drivel!
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I'm not going to anything this year for first time in ages - and that is because it costs to much.
A county season ticket for under £200 remains the best value spectator sport there is. Some of you should give it a try.
(And yes, Smilley, I saw Sam Billings bat magnificently last summer.)
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A county season ticket for under £200 remains the best value spectator sport there is. Some of you should give it a try.
(And yes, Smilley, I saw Sam Billings bat magnificently last summer.)
What county have you got the season ticket for?
Despite being a avid yorkshireman/fan. I unfortunately work in Nottingham.
And next year me and my apprentice have the strange plan of going to trent bridge every half day we work when a game is on.
Which is usually quite a few........
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for once.. bats is right. Worcestershire is under 200 qiud. I've got one this year as I've got loads of leave until june so can go to all the home games (unless playing cricket of course)
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Hampshire offer a season ticket for £200 for up to 43 days cricket.
All the 4 day games and the Royal London group games.
I think for £255 you get all the T20s too
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What county have you got the season ticket for?
Despite being a avid yorkshireman/fan. I unfortunately work in Nottingham.
And next year me and my apprentice have the strange plan of going to trent bridge every half day we work when a game is on.
Which is usually quite a few........
I watch Surrey. I do so as a neutral, really. I live in London.
I 'support' Northants (I watched them as a teenager); with Yorkshire being my 'other team' (I was born there).
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Hampshire offer a season ticket for £200 for up to 43 days cricket.
All the 4 day games and the Royal London group games.
I think for £255 you get all the T20s too
Both Surrey and Middlesex are under £200 including T20s.
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Notts is 160!!!!
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Notts is 160!!!!
Get on it!
I actually pay £140 without the T20s. (Although I still ended up going to 3 last year!)
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I think it's a case of residency.
More Australians and Kiwis playing for England, stop relying on South Africa!
Morgan back to Ireland so he can destroy England would be worth seeing!
Seriously as above too much cricket opportunities dilutes the talent pool.
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The public wont change anything as the ECB couldn't give a t**s about us. We only pay their wages.
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The longer I play cricket, the more I despair at the idiots that run it
From grass roots league to the farce that is our national? team
The running of it seems to attract complete bellends
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The longer I play cricket, the more I despair at the idiots that run it
From grass roots league to the farce that is our national? team
The running of it seems to attract complete bellends
I think you'll find any position of 'power' attracts bellends tbh. They are attracted to power and will do anything they can to get there and then use it for personal gain/pleasure.. What you need are the quieter types who don't push themselves to the front BUT are actually far better than the tick boxers. Unfortunately, the tick boxers are in power and they like people who act like them.. ie tick boxers.. which is why you need to get rid of the lot in a company to fix it.
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Cricket is very expensive to watch I find.
£22 for a day of Championship cricket it was from memory? At Gloucestershire that is.
I've heard it costs over £115 for an ODI ticket at the Oval. Disgraceful
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Cricket is very expensive to watch I find.
£22 for a day of Championship cricket it was from memory? At Gloucestershire that is.
I've heard it costs over £115 for an ODI ticket at the Oval. Disgraceful
Worcestershire was 10 or 15 per person per day in 2013 I think. Although, I have to say I wouldn't pay that to watch a LVCC game. I'd rather they made it free as I'd then eat there etc.. They would make more cash out of me for sure.
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More than likely to get people going more often if you make it free aswell, get more people into the club, increase exposure and atmosphere for the players
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More than likely to get people going more often if you make it free aswell, get more people into the club, increase exposure and atmosphere for the players
That's my theory too mate. Yes you could say if you have 100 guys paying 15 each you make 1.5k, but what about that 200 who are put off due to prices?? If you make it all free and easy(ie parking free too!!) then you might.. just might get more people there who buy a burger or two, cakes, drinks, beer etc.. Also, surely the more people who attend the more sponsors will pay as they get increased exposure etc etc
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I think £1 or £2 to get in would be good and free from 3pm so families can go after school for a few hours. I don't think the counties do enough to help themselves and are happy to rely on their ECB hand out each year. Some years ago when Birmingham City were in Div 1 and Karen Brady was in charge she introduced £1 to get in for the midweek LDV van trophy cup matches. They got 30,000+ crowds and went on to win it that year due to the atmosphere created at all the home matches. Counties need to be more proactive and think of better ways to get the public in.
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I think £1 or £2 to get in would be good and free from 3pm so families can go after school for a few hours. I don't think the counties do enough to help themselves and are happy to rely on their ECB hand out each year. Some years ago when Birmingham City were in Div 1 and Karen Brady was in charge she introduced £1 to get in for the midweek LDV van trophy cup matches. They got 30,000+ crowds and went on to win it that year due to the atmosphere created at all the home matches. Counties need to be more proactive and think of better ways to get the public in.
30k people would put a fair bit of cash behind the shop, burger, pies and beer stands :) As well as connect with teh public and get people involved in the club. As you say, counties aren't interested
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Problem is I don't think you're ever going to attract much larger crowds at county championship. With the majority of playing days obviously falling during the week the only people you're really going to draw in is those that are retired and have a long term interest in the club. Most of these people are presumably then going to have membership for the season and there's not really much of an opportunity for the expansion of crowds.
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Problem is I don't think you're ever going to attract much larger crowds at county championship. With the majority of playing days obviously falling during the week the only people you're really going to draw in is those that are retired and have a long term interest in the club. Most of these people are presumably then going to have membership for the season and there's not really much of an opportunity for the expansion of crowds.
Post work?
Post school?
Uni people?
Kids from school
But yes, you do have a valid point.
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What must the county set ups think when they see the crowd figures from Oz
The potential and interest is there, it just needs addressing
I know we don't get the weather etc, but if the grounds opened the doors for free or low entrance charges, as previously mentioned, they would surely be able to generate revenue from food/drink/merchandise etc?
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I don't think free entry necessarily encourages a larger crowd. I used to go to matches at the basin reserve in wellington after work. Entry was free and still I could count other spectators on the fingers of one hand
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I think they should make the membership more appealing. Perhaps a number of cheap guest passes per season.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
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I think they should make the membership more appealing. Perhaps a number of cheap guest passes per season.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Memberships could include player access, coach access, facility use maybe?
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One option is for the ECB to contract all players for 4 day cricket and allocate them to teams. Given they give £40m to first class cricket, that money could be used for a reduced first class structure focussed at developing team England. The ECB choose the grounds and contract the staff.This leaves the counties to fund themselves for one day only and hopefully make a profit.
Why do this? Well the ECB could control pricing and run it at a loss but in return develop a stronger first class structure with less teams. The counties can focus on one day cricket and reduce overheads while getting pretty much the same revenues they get now.
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Middlesex membership if your club is associated is about £40 for the season. As many trips to lords as you want