Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Bat Making => Topic started by: The Doctor on March 09, 2015, 01:07:46 PM
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Hi Chaps,
After the post from @tim2000 about his wonder bat I thought I would start a topic on this. Driving into work this morning I was thinking about how best to present this as there are a lot of people with preconceptions.
So I thought it would be a good idea to find out what people perceived to be a good press and what people think the pressing process does to the bat. After this I will explain what happens and what we are trying to achieve.
So I have come up with a few questions that it would be great to hear peoples thoughts / opinions on before I start.
Q1. Why do Cricket bats need pressing?
Q2. What does pressing achieve?
Q3. What does knocking in do?
Q4. What happens to the bat when it is used – why does the bat get better?
Please share your thoughts on the above; I would be very interested to hear them. I think this will provide a great platform to explain the pressing process and also help people understand what actually happens.
Streaky
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personally believe harder press means it'll last longer but loses performance and takes ages to get good.
very soft pressing means itll ping but will be past its peak quickly. personally, never touch a hard pressed bat because of this as I think it's had some of it's performance pressed out of it
no idea how real any of it is
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Here's my 10 pence worth....
Q1. Why do Cricket bats need pressing?
to compress the willow that the bat has been made from from it original state after cutting it down to size.
Q2. What does pressing achieve?
a greater rebound response when hitting a ball with it.
Q3. What does knocking in do?
to further compresses the willow using a smaller surface area upon areas that are likely to sustain impact from the ball.
Q4. What happens to the bat when it is used � why does the bat get better?
The willow reaches it peak compression to maximise rebound from it after a certain period of time.
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Q1. Why do Cricket bats need pressing?
To withstand the impact of a ball. Unpressed willow is incredibly soft and would just break.
Q2. What does pressing achieve?
To compress the wood to a point at which it is firm enough to withstand the impact but soft enough to give good rebound.
Q3. What does knocking in do?
Giving the wood its final press with relatively little force to give it longevity.
Q4. What happens to the bat when it is used – why does the bat get better?
The handle gets looser and the springs come into play more. and the blade starts to open up and almost become a bit softer
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I always wondered why bats need pressing or why it impacts performance but working on my car I decided to liken it to creating a progressive spring. The pressing creates a tighter structure on the surface, enabling it to deal with the impact and be tough enough to absorb the blow. as the structure below is less dense it acts like a spring rebounding would. The more energy you give it the greater it rebounds.
The harder pressed surface gives the bat a tension, like a trampoline. The softer structure below transfers the force of the swing, the momentum of the blade and the energy in the ball into how the ball travels post leaving the bat.
A harder press impedes this transfer, like jumping on a drum, a softer press isn't tough enough to deal with the impact, like jumping on a broken trampoline.
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Q1. Why do Cricket bats need pressing?
To create a hard surface layer off which a cricket ball will rebound. Willow is a soft wood. If it is left unpressed it is like having a set of toilet roll tubes taped together and while the ball will rebound, far more energy is absorbed by the structure than is passed back into the ball. It also protects the willow from damage.
Q2. What does pressing achieve?
Pressing "flattens" the tubular microstructure in the top 5mm or so of the face of the bat creating a hard layer with a higher coefficient of restitution than the raw willow would have. Imagine flattening the toilet roll tubes. The outermost would have the toughest, damage resistant surface and as you move through the depth of the willow, the springiness of the lower tubes would be retained creating a spring like effect.
Q3. What does knocking in do?
Knocking in further compresses the face of the bat and is required where clefts are pressed in an estimated fashion, i.e. in bulk at a similar pressure. It also allows specific higher pressure to be applied to areas where most damage is likely to occur, i.e. the edges and toes, where a uniform pressing across the face doesn't harden the most at risk areas enough.
Q4. What happens to the bat when it is used � why does the bat get better?
Further compression of the willow fibres occurs until an optimum point is reached, where the underlying tubular structure offsets the surface hardness to perfection generating the perfect combination of spring and hardness. After which the willow quite literally falls apart from itself as the bonds between the micro-structure break down and the face lifts off.
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My bats like your Tim needed minimal knocking in people have to get away from pre concived ideas of sound!!!
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Some great posts, and I think an element of truth in the majority – top marks goes to @tim2000 however ;-)
Q1. Cricket bats need pressing, as in its raw state it would be far too soft and would indent and break up pretty quickly. I am sure you have all had a bat that has been soft pressed which has cracked/broken down pretty quickly.
Q2. Increases the hardness of the face to enable it to withstand the ball impact to prevent the above. This is done by compacting the transport cells in the in the first 5 mm of the face.
Q3. Further compresses the face – so increases the hardness of the face. As knocking in is very localised the pressure you put on during an impact of a mallet is greater than that of the roller press and therefore compacts the face further – and makes the face even harder. This is very localised to the face of the bat.
Q4. The impact of the ball further compacts the face, again very localised to the face of the bat. The term opening up actually is the complete opposite, and the bat is actually getting harder.
I am not sure why somebody would want a soft pressed bat, as this would result in a lot more knocking in – to get to the same state as our ready press/knocking in. I can categorically state that there is no such thing as a soft pro press – this is simply a myth / urban legend.
The next thing i would like to talk about is why the ball rebounds (increase in CoR) when the face is harder. On impact, energy is lost in a number of ways (the more energy transferred back into the ball the better the CoR);
- Ball deformation
- Bat deformation
- Noise (Negligible)
- Heat (Negligible)
There is obviously energy lost via torsional movements (twisting) for off centre hits but will just concentrate on central impacts.
As a bat manufacturer we can’t do much about 3 of the above (Ball / Noise / heat) but we can reduce the bat deformation (by harder pressing). I specially listen for a sharp pitch when bouncing a ball – this is almost metallic.
I hope the above makes sense and the way that I have presented this has made you think about what goes on during a ball impact and why it is important that the bat is pressed correctly. Each manufacturer will have a process that they stand by. We at B3 have researched this in depth and fully understand what our pressing regime does to the microstructure of the wood to make sure we get the best out of the press. It is not as simple as pressing the face hard as you will get all sorts of problems and a bat that doesn’t perform. Together with our hand knocking in service our bats are ready to play with no further knocking in required. We do recommend that you have a few indoor nets before facing a cricket ball however.
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On Sunday I played in a friendly T20 match on tour, you had to retire at 30, and my B3 sounded like a gunshot on 4 of the 5 fours I hit.
Just amazing - thank you
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Q1. Why do Cricket bats need pressing?
Q2. What does pressing achieve?
Q3. What does knocking in do?
Q4. What happens to the bat when it is used – why does the bat get better?
Please share your thoughts on the above; I would be very interested to hear them. I think this will provide a great platform to explain the pressing process and also help people understand what actually happens.
Streaky
1. Willow by nature is soft and will break if constantly pounded by leather balls. Pressing hardens the willow face so that it can with stand the hard impact of batting
2. Pressing compresses the face of the bat by 5-10 mm so that it is hardened and not damaged by the impact of a cricket ball or a burglar's bones.
3. Knocking-in hardens the surface of the bat face which provides a hard top-side to a softer under-side of the bat face. This difference in hardness results in a spring-like recoild/rebound when a cricket ball hits the bat face.
4. Over time, bat face gets harder due to ball impact resulting in an increased differenc between the surface hardness and inner layers of willow resulting in a bigger recoil/rebound.
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Each manufacturer will have a process that they stand by. We at B3 have researched this in depth and fully understand what our pressing regime does to the microstructure of the wood to make sure we get the best out of the press. It is not as simple as pressing the face hard as you will get all sorts of problems and a bat that doesn’t perform. Together with our hand knocking in service our bats are ready to play with no further knocking in required. We do recommend that you have a few indoor nets before facing a cricket ball however.
I arrived late to the partay...
Some questions for you:
1. What are the factors that you look for when determining the needed level of pressing for a willow? Is it grain, weight, level of moisture?
2. Does level of pressing differ due to willow quality/weight/moisture level? Or, all clefts are pressed equally?
3. Is it possible to determine the quality of rebound of a willow before it is pressed?
4. Do clefts with 5-7 gains require more pressing than clefts with 8-20+ gains?
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@thedoctor interesting read and thank you for sharing. Find it funny how everyone speaks of soft pressed bats going to pro's yet your post de-bunks the myth.
One question though, On a bat that is considered fully opened up and flying what would be the compression due to pressing, knocking and ball impacts combined? if pressing is 5mm then are we looking at 7mm or 10 or higher/lower?
Also if bats need further compression then why not press them more at the pressing/manufacturing stage? how is hand knocking/playing in creating a better surface to hit the ball that pressing cannot achieve? considering hand knocking in will never be as uniform as machine pressed, or is it the different compression zones (some areas at 5, others at 7mm etc.) created the hand knocking in that some how make a bat feel better than uniform knocking (pressing) would achieve...
Breathe....lol
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Q1tbats need pressing to compress the fibres in the wood and make a uniform surface for the bat face
Furthermore it needs pressing to create a hard compressed veneer of wood on top of the soft Willow to create a trampoline effect.
Q2
Pressing achieves a uniform work surface and allows a piece of wood to have any rebound abilities or performance
Q3
Knocking in knits together the smaller fibres on the top surface of the willow and creates a more solid surface for the face to give greater rebound as it starts to unpress the bat as to speak as the veneer starts to seperate from the lower soft wood.
Q4
Q3 lead me on to this but as when you use the bat the harder compressed wood starts to delaminate from the bat and this is why some people think bats perform the best just before they break
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Do B3 press and test each cleft individually ? Say for instance ,the same way Paul Aldred does
Do you press the clefts once? Or multiple times at different stages?
What do you do if you overpress a cleft?
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Do B3 press and test each cleft individually ? Say for instance ,the same way Paul Aldred does
Do you press the clefts once? Or multiple times at different stages?
What do you do if you overpress a cleft?
I can answer this mate as we press each cleft individually we test individually too as we have a man who job is pressing and that pretty much alone.
As for over press when you test after every pass it hard to over press mate as it continually been tested.
If it does happen it will go into the corner where the unfortunately split and damaged clefts do pal.
Does that answer your questions mate. :)
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I arrived late to the partay...
Some questions for you:
1. What are the factors that you look for when determining the needed level of pressing for a willow? Is it grain, weight, level of moisture?
2. Does level of pressing differ due to willow quality/weight/moisture level? Or, all clefts are pressed equally?
3. Is it possible to determine the quality of rebound of a willow before it is pressed?
4. Do clefts with 5-7 gains require more pressing than clefts with 8-20+ gains?
Ali as this is a B3 process and one we have worked hard for unfortunately we shall not be revealing on a forum as it Company property and part of the research which is ongoing.
What i can say is it is nearly possible to tell cleft will press better but i can't do it Streaky and one of the apprentices can though it something about structure they look for i can't!!!
Cleft with more grains tend to be stiffer so work what you will with that but our job is to get them all up to a good standard.
Within each grade you get some strange variants as it natural but there is a pattern but there always a curve ball there currently a 1 stripe in the shop that is 2-9 i think which in my eyes is the best i have tapped up at a initial stage.
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Cheers Dave
Pressing bit is what intrigues
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This fantastic topic poses and answers some of the most commonly debated points on the whole forum. It deserves at ;east abump back tot he top of the B3 section.
Admin, could we make this a sticky (perhaps in the Bat Care/ Bat making section)?
David
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Why not!
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Really interesting thread, thanks for all the comments. Totally understand about protecting IP, but there's plenty to glean from everything contributed.
Couple questions from my side. I've had different people press clefts for me over the past years. Sometimes they have pressed the whole cleft as is, but on other occasions it has been pressed when part shaped. Is there a better way, or is it just at the preference of the batmaker?
Secondly, I've also heard talk of 'final pressing', suggesting that one pressing may not be enough. Any thoughts on this?
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Do B3 press and test each cleft individually ? Say for instance ,the same way Paul Aldred does
Do you press the clefts once? Or multiple times at different stages?
What do you do if you over press a cleft?
I've a Blue classic from Paul, got it last year in may at the start of season. The bat's been pressed so hard, even after 1 season it still refuses to open. Hitting the ball feels like, hitting it with a fire wood. The rebound area is so small, that it's unbelievable. I've 4 other bats with 4 other manufacturers, and all of them perform way way better than Paul's (and 3 of them are way cheaper as well.
And the handle of the bat, you got to have massive hands to hold it. I guess that is one way he tries to balance his bats cause most of them are over 2,12. Absolute waste of money.
my 2 cents.
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Crikey! Where did that come from?
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I'm not sure about the ready press but I've never tapped up a bad bat made by TK or Andrew Kember
I will buy bats from them for as long as they're making bats and I need (or want) a bat
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Ready press oh the days…
The truth is simpler than people think.
It why a uniformal grains (even spread of grains a cross the blade/ are easier to press.
And yes I have pressed several in my days down there I’m no master but I understand the lack of science in it the truth is quite simple.
All the batmakers on here will explain ready press
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I've a Blue classic from Paul, got it last year in may at the start of season. The bat's been pressed so hard, even after 1 season it still refuses to open. Hitting the ball feels like, hitting it with a fire wood. The rebound area is so small, that it's unbelievable. I've 4 other bats with 4 other manufacturers, and all of them perform way way better than Paul's (and 3 of them are way cheaper as well.
And the handle of the bat, you got to have massive hands to hold it. I guess that is one way he tries to balance his bats cause most of them are over 2,12. Absolute waste of money.
my 2 cents.
That's a shame - I have found Paul's press can be quite firm, but think all of the ones I've had pass through my hands have performed decently. The super thick 2 spring handles won't help with the hard feel, and you're right, they do come on the much thicker side by default. Stick with what works for you in the end
B3 was a funny one - I did feel sometimes they just felt overpressed, but at times they'd get it spot on. I believe they've gotten a lot more consistent over the years
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When i went up to see Blathers and check out their set-up he openly admitted it's something they are learning more about.
Its something that can ruin a perfectly good piece of willow if not done correctly and where the skill lies in the feel each bit of wood needs to extract optimum performance from it.
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I have had a few bats from B3, most have been excellent (albeit pressed with the firm feel that has been characteristic of most GMs I have used and may not be to everyone's preference). I had one that wasn't good at all and B3 made me a replacement which was very good.
From my experience, bat makers don't always get it right with pressing and I have come across planks from most brands I have used. What differentiates brands is their response if you aren't content. B3 were excellent in my case. I am not sure I have ever come across anyone who has anything but terrible things to say about the customer service from Paul Aldred
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The funny things is mr P is always doing videos saying his customer service is what he prides on
And a bat doesn’t leave workshop he would not use himself when he was a pro …
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What differentiates brands is their response if you aren't content.
Couldn't agree more, and that goes for warranties/repairs too IMO - there's such a huge differential between brands, especially on what is deemed 'warrantable'. I'm well aware I've been probably too lenient over the years replacing bats when it was absolutely the users fault, but then it's those customers that are still coming back year on year as opposed to switching to another brand so it levels off eventually (or at least I like to think it has! :D).
Obviously don't speak for everyone, but personally if I had a bad experience with a company I certainly wouldn't be going back with the amount of options out there nowadays.