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General Cricket => World Cricket => England => Topic started by: Sam on April 08, 2015, 05:07:20 PM

Title: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: Sam on April 08, 2015, 05:07:20 PM
Thought this would perhaps be quite a big discussion and bring some relief to quite a few people ;).

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/story/859189.html (http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/story/859189.html)

Not much to discuss so far it seems.
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: joeljonno on April 08, 2015, 05:09:21 PM
http://m.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/32225643

Not anything except this headline on BBC either.


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Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: jamielsn15 on April 08, 2015, 05:15:56 PM
MD post to be replaced by new role director of England cricket. Looks like a more cricket focussed role. Downtown was out of his depth having been working in the city for 20-odd years.

Michael vaughans thrown his hat in the ring just now on sky...
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: cheese on April 08, 2015, 05:16:21 PM
Door slightly more open for a K.P return?
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: ppccopener on April 08, 2015, 05:35:01 PM
Cant see this making any difference to the KP situation but as many of us have said on here we need a clear out and start again
Graves is living up to his billing as a no nonsence boss
Moores needs to go too regardless of if we win against west indies
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: northernboy1987 on April 08, 2015, 05:50:04 PM
Seems like Graves means business! Can't help but think that this, like removing Cook immediately before the WC, is counter productive with the team already being on tour, surely must draw players and coaches focus off the job in hand a little? Other than that I think it's a good move.
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: ppccopener on April 08, 2015, 06:00:06 PM
Could'nt agree more northernboy..Cook got sacked,fine he was not the right player for one dayers..but a month before the world cup when we had 6 months to prepare?
That can only be down to the management...
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: csnew on April 08, 2015, 06:00:21 PM
About time! Giles Clarke next
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on April 08, 2015, 06:00:56 PM
One down one Moores to go.
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: Silver Bullet on April 08, 2015, 06:01:17 PM

Thought this would perhaps be quite a big discussion and bring some relief to quite a few people ;).

[url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/story/859189.html[/url] ([url]http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/story/859189.html[/url])

Not much to discuss so far it seems.


This is so confusing... Somebody help me along. There's a Chief Executive, there's a Managing Director, there's a Chairman and God knows what else. Who reports to whom ?
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: SLC on April 08, 2015, 06:07:35 PM
Good! Didn't theyd actually do this.

Bet Whittaker won't be sleeping too well.
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: ProCricketer1982 on April 08, 2015, 06:07:48 PM
Finally.. Happiest I've been about England for months!!! One down, 4 more to go
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: Alvaro on April 08, 2015, 06:07:54 PM
Whitaker is dead man walking
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: Giraffe208 on April 08, 2015, 06:08:29 PM
This is so confusing... Somebody help me along. There's a Chief Executive, there's a Managing Director, there's a Chairman and God knows what else. Who reports to whom ?

They all report to Buzz
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: ProCricketer1982 on April 08, 2015, 06:09:32 PM
Whitaker is dead man walking

Hopefully
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: jwebber86 on April 08, 2015, 07:32:25 PM
they certainly need a good tour to the windies or more will be following him out of the door
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: SLC on April 08, 2015, 07:32:45 PM
Gough has said alec Stewart should do it - come back downton!
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: Aswani Cricket on April 08, 2015, 07:49:35 PM
How about a consortium from CBF? :)
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: Buzz on April 08, 2015, 07:52:09 PM
Names on the list at the moment are...

Duncan Fletcher
Strauss
Hussain
Vaughan
Stewart

Personally I think it is good he is gone, but we need to kick out the selectors to.
Whittaker doesn't seem up to it, Fraser and Newall are conflicted...etc

I would like to see Mark Butcher having a leading role.

there is a big job for the new MD
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: SLC on April 08, 2015, 07:57:32 PM
Hope they're going to think it through and not just go for a populist outspoken ex England player for the sake of it.
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: Alvaro on April 08, 2015, 08:24:56 PM
Andy Flower. I bet you.
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: northernboy1987 on April 08, 2015, 08:30:38 PM
I wouldn't have a problem with Strauss or Vaughan, they know what it's like to win and they should still have a knowledge of most of the players be it from international duty or from the county circuit.
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: Mortimer on April 08, 2015, 08:31:24 PM
MD post to be replaced by new role director of England cricket. Looks like a more cricket focussed role. Downtown was out of his depth having been working in the city for 20-odd years.

Michael vaughans thrown his hat in the ring just now on sky...

Please not Vaughan. The last thing we need is that Dingle retard running cricket
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: SLC on April 08, 2015, 08:45:58 PM
All that talk of elite performance does sound suspiciously like flower.
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: Buzz on April 08, 2015, 08:59:20 PM
All that talk of elite performance does sound suspiciously like flower.

Argh.  :( :(
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: edge on April 08, 2015, 09:08:14 PM
Needs to be someone fresh is the most important thing in my view, Vaughan is probably just about long enough ago (although probably not him please). Strauss would be too close to the current bunch and managing methods.
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: procricket on April 08, 2015, 09:10:47 PM
Colly and goughie
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: FattusCattus on April 08, 2015, 09:15:01 PM
Strauss allegedly got great respect from the players, I don;t think he's close to Moores.

I keep hearing Gough mentioned - what pedigree does he have, he was pretty wild and emotional as a player?
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: jwebber86 on April 08, 2015, 09:17:51 PM
i really hope collingwood is involved somewhere the very least in the one day and t20 stuff
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: ProCricketer1982 on April 08, 2015, 10:11:00 PM
Hussain
Butcher
Ponting
Gillespie
Collingwood

Between them we have all bases covered and have the proven winners to share that knowledge in thenaussies and a sprinkling of eng players
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: northernboy1987 on April 08, 2015, 10:12:22 PM
Agree on Collingwood being involved, got that bit of backbone that's often missing in England's set ups!
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: Hoover on April 09, 2015, 12:24:08 AM
Why give the job to a cricketer. Shouldn't you be looking for a successful business person ?
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: SOULMAN1012 on April 09, 2015, 05:42:37 AM
All this talk if getting the England team to "elite performance" surly that's what should have been happening anyway?? So are they saying that under downtown "elite performance" which I translate to be playing at the same level if not above all other teams around you was not what they wanted to do.
Really glad he has gone the bloke is a muppet that has made the ECB a laughing stock along with one or two others as well. Personally prefer Hussain or Butcher, both speak there mind and seem passionate about England playing there best players and focusing on youth as well as experience.
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: Blenheim Cricket on April 09, 2015, 05:52:34 AM
Is it me or are all the possible names being mentioned on here people who work for various media outlets who are good at voicing opinions. Do they have the skills needed to improve the structure of England elite cricket.
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: tim2000s on April 09, 2015, 06:34:28 AM
Clive Woodward for me please.
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: iand123 on April 09, 2015, 07:05:30 AM
Why give the job to a cricketer. Shouldn't you be looking for a successful business person ?

Believe Downton had spent 20 years in the city prior to taking the job (having previously been a first class cricketer).
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: iand123 on April 09, 2015, 07:08:32 AM
I could see them giving the job to Strauss, he's the ECB's type of person, called KP a James Blunt on TV which will surely tick a few ECB boxes, has recently played at the higher level and seems to be relatively sensible with a view not just about cricket (i could be horrendously wrong on that front, just how he comes across to me!).

I like Vaughan but he changes his opinion to whatever is the popular thinking, good as a pundit and in the media.

Butcher seems to know his stuff, Stewart is doing the same job at Surrey so has experience. What about a complete left field suggestion, Shane Warne :D
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: SLC on April 09, 2015, 07:15:30 AM
Quote
seems to be relatively sensible with a view not just about cricket 
actually, they were trying to get him to be a Conservative candidate, so dependending on your views.....
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: iand123 on April 09, 2015, 07:16:13 AM
I've just read the statement from the ECB yesterday

Quote
He joined at a very difficult time, but under his leadership the Test team have made significant strides...

Seems they are comparing the ashes whitewash with a series loss at home to Sri Lanka, a home series against a lucklustre Indian side as significant strides?!?!?!
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: iand123 on April 09, 2015, 07:16:47 AM
actually, they were trying to get him to be a Conservative candidate, so dependending on your views.....

Fair point :D
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: ProCricketer1982 on April 09, 2015, 07:42:51 AM
Why give the job to a cricketer. Shouldn't you be looking for a successful business person ?

No!!!

You want someone who is doing the best for the game, not the best for the bean counters.
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: Buzz on April 09, 2015, 07:57:08 AM
Why give the job to a cricketer. Shouldn't you be looking for a successful business person ?

I think it depends on what you want from the job - for me Tom Harrison's role is that filled by a successful business person, the director of cricket needs to be someone who understands:
1. the style of cricket that is needed to win cricket matches - in each format - which is defined by the captain with help from the coach
2. be able to challenge the captain to ensure that approach will be impactful - so must understand the modern game and be a strategic thinker
3. should work with the captain and coach to help the selectors identify the players who can deliver that game plan
4. where those players don't exist, work with the coaches at the counties to find and create those players

Personally I don't see this as a full time role, but I do think it needs to be a someone with significant cricket experience
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: uknsaunders on April 09, 2015, 08:33:42 AM
I think the rumour is it will be combined with the job of selector. Bye bye Whittaker and it saves one head in the England setup.
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: Stumper on April 09, 2015, 08:46:14 AM
No one has mentioned Jason Gillespie  :o
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: ProCricketer1982 on April 09, 2015, 08:52:54 AM
No one has mentioned Jason Gillespie  :o
He has been if you read the posts
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: ppccopener on April 09, 2015, 09:00:54 AM
He has been if you read the posts

indeed...feeling a bit better about English cricket now, at least the process is underway.Vaughan quoting himself as 'forward thinking visionary' is a worry thou, good player,good captain but he could eat himself sometimes,clearly not lacking in bigging himself up

the debate about having an aussie/foreign coach really should not be an issue-you want the best person for the job.We need someone closer to the modern game

slightly off topic some interesting press coming up that Downton's remit 'was to get rid of KP' so those thinking it was his view and his view only maybe slightly off track-he was doing what he was told...
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: ProCricketer1982 on April 09, 2015, 09:05:33 AM
indeed...feeling a bit better about English cricket now, at least the process is underway.Vaughan quoting himself as 'forward thinking visionary' is a worry thou, good player,good captain but he could eat himself sometimes,clearly not lacking in bigging himself up

the debate about having an aussie/foreign coach really should not be an issue-you want the best person for the job.We need someone closer to the modern game

slightly off topic some interesting press coming up that Downton's remit 'was to get rid of KP' so those thinking it was his view and his view only maybe slightly off track-he was doing what he was told...
You don't do as you are told if it's wrong, you question it. Also, he went about it badly so he's to blame just as much.

If you are told to do something you know is wrong then you say no, get that person to do it. That's his job, to just to be a yes man, any idiot can be a yes man. A strong person stands up and says no
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: tim2000s on April 09, 2015, 09:07:16 AM
You don't do as you are told if it's wrong, you question it. Also, he went about it badly so he's to blame just as much.

If you are told to do something you know is wrong then you say no, get that person to do it. That's his job, to just to be a yes man, any idiot can be a yes man. A strong person who can afford to stands up and says no
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: Seniorplayer on April 09, 2015, 09:09:36 AM
Hussein should be involved as he when Captain along  with Duncan Fletcher started the last upturn  of England Cricket.
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: ProCricketer1982 on April 09, 2015, 09:12:18 AM


sad world when people accept yes men though. Awful people to have in any responsible positions
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: ppccopener on April 09, 2015, 09:14:00 AM
You don't do as you are told if it's wrong, you question it. Also, he went about it badly so he's to blame just as much.

If you are told to do something you know is wrong then you say no, get that person to do it. That's his job, to just to be a yes man, any idiot can be a yes man. A strong person stands up and says no
I see where you are coming from but.....any organisation has a remit for senior managers,which is what Downton was.......I can question things I think are wrong in my job, i'm sure you can,i'm sure many on here can...but ultimately if I refused I would be sacked

that's working life today surely?
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: uknsaunders on April 09, 2015, 09:18:55 AM
Can't Vaughan just shut up and apply for the job like normal people?
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: ppccopener on April 09, 2015, 09:22:23 AM
Can't Vaughan just shut up and apply for the job like normal people?
no that's not possible, he is in the broad/kp/swann/Anderson 'big cheese(grand fromage?) category

Ashes 2005, yes fantastic thanks very much, we will never forget but Cook would love to have that bowling attack we had then and Flintoff doing his Superman impressions.... :)
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: uknsaunders on April 09, 2015, 09:23:18 AM
And he is in the media and needs to self promote himself in order to get work..
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: Seniorplayer on April 09, 2015, 09:29:54 AM
I see where you are coming from but.....any organisation has a remit for senior managers,which is what Downton was.......I can question things I think are wrong in my job, i'm sure you can,i'm sure many on here can...but ultimately if I refused I would be sacked

that's working life today surely?

No  employees should be dismissed if there is justification for the refusal and only then can they be dismissed following an investigation and all the facts have been established.
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: roco on April 09, 2015, 09:31:48 AM
couldn't be sacked straight away but very easy to performance manage someone out of a company quickly
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: ProCricketer1982 on April 09, 2015, 09:34:57 AM
I see where you are coming from but.....any organisation has a remit for senior managers,which is what Downton was.......I can question things I think are wrong in my job, i'm sure you can,i'm sure many on here can...but ultimately if I refused I would be sacked

that's working life today surely?

You can't be sacked for questioning things and asking for explanation and reasoning and getting it in writing if you disagree (so safeguarding you from this so called downton episode where he has apparently taken all the flack for something that wasn't his. If you are to be fired you'd need to have done something wrong and they'd have to be able to prove it. Don't get me wrong, it's not easy but surely challenging things is how to improve things?? Just being a yes man improves nothing and keeps the wrong people in management??
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: Stumper on April 09, 2015, 09:44:14 AM
He has been if you read the posts

Oh yeah i must of missed that, off to specsavers.
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: ppccopener on April 09, 2015, 09:46:47 AM
You can't be sacked for questioning things and asking for explanation and reasoning and getting it in writing if you disagree (so safeguarding you from this so called downton episode where he has apparently taken all the flack for something that wasn't his. If you are to be fired you'd need to have done something wrong and they'd have to be able to prove it. Don't get me wrong, it's not easy but surely challenging things is how to improve things?? Just being a yes man improves nothing and keeps the wrong people in management??
I couldn't agree with you more actually,perhaps what has been wrong with our cricket in recent years is just that....too many yes men....take the KP shermozzle.whatever your view of his 'sacking' he challenged coaches,relentless practice against trying to improve skill levels,stats,graphs and paperwork against real life experience of facing the worlds best bowlers(IPL window?) more time in team meetings against less and focus on recovery and rest before big matches?  should he of been ousted for these views-absolutely not...
good management in the work place is not afraid of challenges and different view points, the real world out there can be very different thou :)
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: ProCricketer1982 on April 09, 2015, 09:48:09 AM
couldn't be sacked straight away but very easy to performance manage someone out of a company quickly

Exactly this, you can't be sacked but can be driven out if they wanted.
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: ProCricketer1982 on April 09, 2015, 09:50:10 AM
I couldn't agree with you more actually,perhaps what has been wrong with our cricket in recent years is just that....too many yes men....take the KP shermozzle.whatever your view of his 'sacking' he challenged coaches,relentless practice against trying to improve skill levels,stats,graphs and paperwork against real life experience of facing the worlds best bowlers(IPL window?) more time in team meetings against less and focus on recovery and rest before big matches?  should he of been ousted for these views-absolutely not...
good management in the work place is not afraid of challenges and different view points, the real world out there can be very different thou :)

Real world is different, that's why we have banking crisis's, poor management in government and large businesses etc etc
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: Stumper on April 09, 2015, 09:54:17 AM
Exactly can not be sacked, just put you in a dark room with same title but with no portfolio.
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: Seniorplayer on April 09, 2015, 12:36:19 PM
couldn't be sacked straight away but very easy to performance manage someone out of a company quickly

To performance manage someone out of there job they  should first be told  where they are going wrong in writing and then given them time to improve this should be done on at least three occasions and include regular meetings and updates only then  can any action be  taken if there is no improvement in performance following these meeting then the action should be written warnings as stated in the company's disciplinary procedure prior to dismissal taking place.
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: ProCricketer1982 on April 09, 2015, 01:04:53 PM
Anyway, has moores, whittiker, selectors, flower, shelvey or pringle been fired yet??
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: fros23 on April 09, 2015, 09:03:21 PM
Anyway, has moores, whittiker, selectors, flower, shelvey or pringle been fired yet??


What's he done wrong?  ;)

(http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/multimedia/archive/00682/152747829_shelvey_0_682735b.jpg)
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: jamielsn15 on April 10, 2015, 07:12:08 AM
Giles Clarke voted in as el Presidente, there's another role and person who should be given the Spanish archer...

Only BCCI officials are more power hungry than him
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: Buzz on April 10, 2015, 07:59:35 AM
This is from George Dobell regarding Glies Clarke

The appointment of Clarke as president remains contentious. Not only was he one of the key figures in the "Big Three" takeover of the ICC - a decision that is already beginning to look self-defeating and will only look worse with time - he was also an architect of the unsustainable ECB business model which sees the international team flogged around the world in an endless race for a few dollars more.

On Wednesday, Clarke provided a reminder of his abrasive nature by storming out of the dinner to celebrate the launch of the 2015 Wisden Almanack. Clarke took exception to a speech by former ICC president, Ehsan Mani and then became embroiled in a robust exchange of views with Wisden's editor, Lawrence Booth, after onlookers suggested Clarke's behaviour fell somewhat below the standards expected of a guest at such an event. Yet the ECB continues to view Clarke as an asset.
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: jamielsn15 on April 10, 2015, 08:52:19 AM
Absolutely agree - read this earlier today to follow on from your post - http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/11526510/ECB-turmoil-continues-as-Giles-Clarke-launches-furious-tirade-at-Wisden-editor-Lawrence-Booth.html (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/cricket/international/england/11526510/ECB-turmoil-continues-as-Giles-Clarke-launches-furious-tirade-at-Wisden-editor-Lawrence-Booth.html)

You of course have the right to respond to any criticism, though there is a time and a place.

He's an asset because he's making them money, at the expense of the cricket fan and the quality of cricket in England.  Clearly Booth hit a nerve.  Clarke doth protest too much...

If indeed English cricket needs a President, it should be a cricket man, not a businessman who's priority is milking the cash cow dry and aiming for global dominance.
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: ProCricketer1982 on April 10, 2015, 08:56:08 AM
Clarke is nothing short of a disgrace to English cricket and the ECB. You simply can't support the team (by extension ECB after all) while people like him remain in power but more importantly, defended by such companies!! It jus shows how low that company is currently.
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: ppccopener on April 10, 2015, 09:46:29 AM
hats off to Laurence Booth, he's not part of the ECB mafia, er sorry,press

Downton has gone but as I've said before,and have plenty of others on here, he had his remit....

Clarke is a relic from the old English system, totally out of touch and is describing Cookie as someone from 'the right family' to Captain England well that just beggars belief.I don't know Alistair Cook but i'm sure he would not want to be described that way.
Clarke also took the rupees and jumped into bed with India to try to create some sort of superstate and to hell with the other cricket playing nations.

All :) in all, to quote KP, A COMPLETE MUPPET
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: ProCricketer1982 on April 10, 2015, 09:49:42 AM
KP is being proved right in nearly everything.. Scarily who'd have thought that when the ECB fired him!!
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: jamielsn15 on April 10, 2015, 01:47:26 PM
KP is being proved right in nearly everything.. Scarily who'd have thought that when the ECB fired him!!

He just gets to sit back and watch the ECB elite self combust, although let's not forget he has demonstrated a fundamental lack of respect for professional county cricketers and team mates.  KP will be desperate for Vaughan to be offered the new role - that's his fast track back to international cricket which is looking increasingly likely, my bet is he'll back for the back end of the Ashes or certainly the winter tours.

Sadly Clarke is one example of the upper echelons of business - its who you know (or what you know about who you know...).  Director/CEO role comes up in the city/NGB/business - "give it so-and-so, he's on the look out after leaving (insert company name here)..."  Doesn't matter if they have experience, they all drink in the same private clubs and/or went to school with a friend/brother of... Tenuous links to various sports will get you the job.  No interviews, no trial periods - "there's your office old chap, drinks at 5pm, I'll send my driver..."

I work for a charity that has some executive Trustees who do their charity work as their CSRs - the cliques and circles they inhabit are frightening, it's a different world in those ivory towers.
Title: Re: Paul Downton sacked
Post by: ppccopener on April 10, 2015, 02:20:01 PM
looks like also the appointment of Downton by Clarke citing 'extensive management experience in the City of London' is being queried too....not that is matters now of course.

I'm not on twitter but if you are the information seems to be coming out as that 'management experience in the City' appears to be a  strain on the truth.....

it's all academic now but like many and the above post I can't help thinking us fans have been mis-lead all along.The ECB take us for fools whilst trebling ticket prices while they sit back and do deals we don't want as they are morally corrupt.