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Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: Bats_Entertainment on November 29, 2015, 05:32:43 PM

Title: The bat wars.
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 29, 2015, 05:32:43 PM
Interesting Cricinfo article:  http://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/931747/the-bat-wars (http://www.thecricketmonthly.com/story/931747/the-bat-wars)
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: roco on November 29, 2015, 06:29:18 PM
Very good read

Thanks for sharing
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: sanredrose on November 29, 2015, 06:43:13 PM
Very good read indeed. BDM owner's comments about MRF snapping up Kohli pretty much sums up what GM would have felt when Root left them for NB. I was always under the impression SS was the biggest manufacturer from India and not SG. Seems like its the other way round. SG is the biggest cricket manufacturer in India and judging by their revenue its fair to say they are pretty much the main player in making bats for other companies. 
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Andythomo21 on November 29, 2015, 06:56:25 PM
Very interesting read and learnt a lot of new things, some of which mentioned by @sanredrose.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 29, 2015, 07:40:15 PM
SG is the biggest cricket manufacturer in India and judging by their revenue its fair to say they are pretty much the main player in making bats for other companies.

Kookaburra alone must represent quite a hefty slice of the sticker-chasing market?
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: bostoncricketer on November 29, 2015, 07:58:55 PM
Very nice read. Thanks for sharing. It is tragic how a bat maker's monthly income can be less than the cost of a single bat :(
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Northern monkey on November 29, 2015, 08:04:31 PM
Interesting read

Would love to know how much English willow is exported and to whom
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Vitas Cricket on November 29, 2015, 08:17:06 PM
Is it just me who wants to know whats in the golden Adidas box in the SG office?
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Thesmiff on November 29, 2015, 08:49:02 PM

Is it just me who wants to know whats in the golden Adidas box in the SG office?

Maybe a rupee or 3
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: StillNotOut on November 29, 2015, 09:05:47 PM
Fantastic read. Thank you for sharing
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 29, 2015, 09:53:55 PM
It is tragic how a bat maker's monthly income can be less than the cost of a single bat :(

Certainly food for thought for a few on here.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 29, 2015, 09:57:39 PM
Interesting read

Would love to know how much English willow is exported and to whom

Pretty sure that I read somewhere that SG are JS Wrught's biggest customer.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 29, 2015, 10:20:36 PM
Very nice read. Thanks for sharing. It is tragic how a bat maker's monthly income can be less than the cost of a single bat :(

In basic monetary terms that is true, but what would they be be able to buy with that money?
It may not sound like a lot, but if they are able to live comfortably off it then it isn't as awful as it sounds.

Equally they could be able to afford next to nothing for that, which would be a tragedy that a master craftsman can barely afford to live when the items they produce sell for such a high price
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: StillNotOut on November 29, 2015, 10:23:42 PM
With the rate of inflation being extremely high in India, I doubt 7000 rupees per month is sufficient for most people to live even half a comfortable life
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 29, 2015, 10:48:36 PM
With the rate of inflation being extremely high in India, I doubt 7000 rupees per month is sufficient for most people to live even half a comfortable life

Heads back in sand, me thinks.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Nmcgee on November 30, 2015, 01:35:08 AM
Interesting article. Thanks for posting.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: sanredrose on November 30, 2015, 01:39:03 AM
Kookaburra alone must represent quite a hefty slice of the sticker-chasing market?

From what i have heard the full line up of Kookaburra and Adidas are made by SG. They would definitely be a huge customer for them.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: skip1973 on November 30, 2015, 01:43:57 AM
From what i have heard the full line up of Kookaburra and Adidas are made by SG. They would definitely be a huge customer for them.
Not adidas anymore.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: ridhuan on November 30, 2015, 02:15:13 AM
Is it just me who wants to know whats in the golden Adidas box in the SG office?
Eagle eyes Jake, made me turn back to the article to see the box!
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: suraj1108 on November 30, 2015, 02:19:43 AM
thanks for sharing; very interesting read.  :)
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on November 30, 2015, 09:05:33 AM
With the rate of inflation being extremely high in India, I doubt 7000 rupees per month is sufficient for most people to live even half a comfortable life

I will confess I know nothing of the India economy, which is why I covered both bases with my last post. It was purely guesswork on my part if they could live on that wage or not.

It is heartbreaking that craftsman producing high quality goods cannot afford to live comfortably, especially when their products are sold for such a high price (and in turn, markup).
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: sanredrose on November 30, 2015, 09:10:23 AM
Not adidas anymore.

Who makes Adidas bats then ? SS or FC Sondhi ?
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: edge on November 30, 2015, 09:23:21 AM
From what i have heard the full line up of Kookaburra and Adidas are made by SG. They would definitely be a huge customer for them.
Iirc Kook are moving away from SG and building their own facility
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: ppccopener on November 30, 2015, 09:25:12 AM
I will confess I know nothing of the India economy, which is why I covered both bases with my last post. It was purely guesswork on my part if they could live on that wage or not.

It is heartbreaking that craftsman producing high quality goods cannot afford to live comfortably, especially when their products are sold for such a high price (and in turn, markup).


without wishing to start a whole new subject/thread/argument! this is perhaps the reason some of us stick to UK made bats, it's not necessarily because they are always better quality,it's the big gulf between the costs to start with and the end price to the consumer.Most of us know if we want a hand made bat in this Country costs will be a certain level and that's to be expected.

More and more big manufacturers are outsourcing to India and Pakistan,and that's entirely up to them, aside from the Sports direct warehouse,the reduction is costs are generally not passed on.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: StillNotOut on November 30, 2015, 10:02:43 AM
@walkingwicket37 - wasn't having a pop at you and I apologise if it came across that way


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: cesare_in on November 30, 2015, 10:13:49 AM
I will confess I know nothing of the India economy, which is why I covered both bases with my last post. It was purely guesswork on my part if they could live on that wage or not.

It is heartbreaking that craftsman producing high quality goods cannot afford to live comfortably, especially when their products are sold for such a high price (and in turn, markup).

I live in India, and can tell you that it's extremely difficult to meet one's & his family needs with 7,000 rupees. Heartbreaking, I agree  :(
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: skip1973 on November 30, 2015, 10:32:27 AM
Who makes Adidas bats then ? SS or FC Sondhi ?
Ours were SS made.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: sarg on November 30, 2015, 11:55:56 AM
FC Sondhi make New Balance i believe.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Aussie on November 30, 2015, 12:36:48 PM
FC Sondhi are similar to SG I think. Do all their manufacturing in house and really look after their employees. Their own brand is PROTOS or PRO which are very good bats. I had one a few years ago.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on November 30, 2015, 01:21:58 PM
FC Sondhi make New Balance i believe.

And Slazenger, I think.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: sanredrose on December 01, 2015, 08:59:46 AM
Got this link from FCS website. Safe to say the names listed here are either current or past customers for whom FCS made some gear.

(http://i303.photobucket.com/albums/nn156/xanthis_87/Screen%20Shot%202015-12-01%20at%2012.57.25%20AM.png)
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: sarg on December 01, 2015, 10:18:14 AM
I did not even think of checking that, great detective work Sanredrose. Sometimes i think bat makers are all so hush hush about this stuff. Now it's published information. I knew the spartan and new balance felt similar in pressing as I've knocked both in for players here in Adelaide.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on December 01, 2015, 06:02:28 PM
Why do people continue to support this nonsense?
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on December 01, 2015, 06:05:06 PM
Why do people continue to support this nonsense?

Because stickers sell bats, and people will buy "the same bat" they  see their favourite players using on the telly.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Gurujames on December 01, 2015, 06:29:50 PM
No point buying a new balance, kookaburra or Spartan. May as well go to sports direct and get a slazenger. They are all the same.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on December 01, 2015, 07:05:48 PM
Not exactly. I don't think we're doubting that SG, SS or Sondhi are capable of making a very good cricket bat.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Gurujames on December 01, 2015, 07:15:48 PM
How do you think they decide which bats go to which brand? Do the 'worst' performing bats go to be slazenger? Are they selected randomly? Are the more experienced makers put on to make for the 'bigger brands'?
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on December 01, 2015, 07:26:32 PM
How do you think they decide which bats go to which brand? Do the 'worst' performing bats go to be slazenger? Are they selected randomly? Are the more experienced makers put on to make for the 'bigger brands'?

Some Slazenger bats are probably pretty good.  Same as with the other big brands. I don"t think that is really the issue.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: edge on December 01, 2015, 07:31:02 PM
How do you think they decide which bats go to which brand? Do the 'worst' performing bats go to be slazenger? Are they selected randomly? Are the more experienced makers put on to make for the 'bigger brands'?
Er... they're not just knocking out the same shapes over and over! Someone at NB is gonna notice if they get sent a batch of Kahunas instead of the duckbill DC shape they ordered.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Gurujames on December 01, 2015, 07:45:59 PM
I'm not suggesting that they are knocking out the same shapes. However, i imagine that the brand with the biggest contract get the best service.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on December 01, 2015, 08:01:16 PM
They get the service they pay for, I expect. It's business!
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: sanredrose on December 02, 2015, 07:53:07 AM
No point buying a new balance, kookaburra or Spartan. May as well go to sports direct and get a slazenger. They are all the same.

Probably not. If i were a customer outsourcing bat-making to FCS then i would expect them to make bats according to my specification. I wouldn't accept if they crank out some regular shapes and stick my labels on them. I am pretty sure big clients like Kookaburra, NB, Spartan etc would have absolute bargaining power in this regard. FCS - Protos brand is a good one, but its not a popular one. For them to sustain in this business, they would say "yes" to anything these clients are asking for.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: sanredrose on December 02, 2015, 08:01:39 AM
How do you think they decide which bats go to which brand? Do the 'worst' performing bats go to be slazenger? Are they selected randomly? Are the more experienced makers put on to make for the 'bigger brands'?

Does Slaz have a lot of worst performing bats ? Are you stating this from personal experience ? I have a friend who uses Slaz V12 or V800 (don't remember the exact model, but it has yellow stickers) G1 willow and its extremely good - balance, pick up and ping is very good.

Its very likely that experienced bat makers are put towards making the top of line products in a brand. For example a Kookaburra Kahuna Players model bats might be made by an experienced bat-maker while the Kahuna 150/200/350 etc might be made by relatively inexperienced bat-makers. However there will be a certain level of bias towards their biggest client. If Kook brings in $100K USD of business but Spartan brings in $250k USD businesss, then its likely FCS might put their better designers on the Spartan project rather than Kook.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Gurujames on December 02, 2015, 08:16:48 AM
Does Slaz have a lot of worst performing bats ? Are you stating this from personal experience ?
Yes, they are over pressed planks.
We can all cite exceptions to the rules but generally slazenger are over pressed and perform poorly? They are very well priced though so you could argue good value for money.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Seniorplayer on December 02, 2015, 12:02:13 PM
Don't knowif this helps but not all Slazenger bats are made in India some are still made in England.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on December 02, 2015, 03:35:35 PM
Don't knowif this helps but not all Slazenger bats are made in India some are still made in England.

'Still' implies that was always the case, which I'm not sure is entirely true. Indeed TK, who is believed to currently manufacture the English Slazengers, seems to very much adopted thr Indian model discussed in the article.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Vitas Cricket on December 02, 2015, 03:42:32 PM
Just a bit of clarity here guys. Because a manufacturer lists a brand as a client, it doesn't mean they make everything for that brand. Kookaburra bats are not made by Sondhi  for example. I don't think their softs are either.

It could be something like a few bat covers, some plastic stump sets, anything.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on December 02, 2015, 03:46:49 PM
Just a bit of clarity here guys. Because a manufacturer lists a brand as a client, it doesn't mean they make everything for that brand. Kookaburra bats are not made by Sondhi  for example. I don't think their softs are either.

It could be something like a few bat covers, some plastic stump sets, anything.

Yes, I was aware of that. But Sondhi do make (most) Slazenger bats,  I think?
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: sanredrose on December 03, 2015, 04:26:45 AM
Yes, they are over pressed planks.
We can all cite exceptions to the rules but generally slazenger are over pressed and perform poorly? They are very well priced though so you could argue good value for money.

Ok. I haven't used Slaz bats. The ones which my friend is using is purchased from IJC. So probably he got one of the good ones ...
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: sarg on December 03, 2015, 04:28:03 AM

Don't knowif this helps but not all Slazenger bats are made in India some are still made in England.

Just for clarity I am pretty sure the latest slaz stickers say designed in UK not made in UK like the 2014 stickers did. Had a 2014 V5 and it was definitely pressed in the uk *cough* TK *cough*. Nice bat purchased by a forum member when i stuck it on ebay.

Can still buy them on sportsdirect and they are cheaper than the new ones.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: sanredrose on December 03, 2015, 04:30:40 AM
Just a bit of clarity here guys. Because a manufacturer lists a brand as a client, it doesn't mean they make everything for that brand. Kookaburra bats are not made by Sondhi  for example. I don't think their softs are either.

It could be something like a few bat covers, some plastic stump sets, anything.

Agreed .. I was quoting Kook & Spartan in my replies to just make my point. The page just confirms that Kook has been a FCS customer either in the past or present. It doesn't indicate what goods FCS made for them.

Bringing up Kookaburra always brings about interesting questions :-) ... I have a Kook Kahuna made for UK and Kook Kahuna made for India. If both bats are made in the same factory how come their profiles don't match ?? (Will post pictures in a day or two ... )
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on December 03, 2015, 09:11:36 PM
Just for clarity I am pretty sure the latest slaz stickers say designed in UK not made in UK like the 2014 stickers did. Had a 2014 V5 and it was definitely pressed in the uk *cough* TK *cough*. Nice bat purchased by a forum member when i stuck it on ebay.

Can still buy them on sportsdirect and they are cheaper than the new ones.

The TK ones are now marked LE  and clearly say ,Made in England'. Asad's usually got some.
Title: Re: The bat wars.
Post by: Bats_Entertainment on December 05, 2015, 05:34:25 PM
Sports Direct's website now appears to have V12 LEs. Maybe last seasons? Or a marketing trick? Not especially cheap, in any case