Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: Silver Bullet on April 28, 2016, 01:56:46 PM
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Simple Question: For those who have splurged, was your purchase of Pro, Low Density Willow Worth it ? I am closing in on retirement age, and really tempted to see how I'd bat with a Davey Warner sized Kaboom or an Uzi Khawaja monster. But those bats are at least 2.5 times what I currently spend on bats. For those that do purchase G1+ low density willow, is there a massive difference in terms of performance ?
And before anyone chips in, I have already spent all I can on coaching.
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Difficult question. I think they are amazing bats, I have 3, a Warner copy, an SS, and a BAS that are all supposed to be pro willow for what that is worth. I wouldn't part with any of them, but can I say they are better than my custom bats, that are generally 1/2 the price, probably not. They feel different, but the performance of them is excellent but not necessarily better.
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Without a doubt why because pressed for maximum performance more wood of a lower density gives increased performance
Therefore more value for your shots.
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Grade of willow has no real relavance to how a bat plays, that is in the skill of the bat maker and quality of handle, yes you may get a bigger bat due to density etc, but will it play better not necessarily, I currently have a H4L Devil that is graded 3/4 it plays as well as any g1 bat I've owned or used.
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Good old pro willow I guess I have quite a few low density in the last few years.
Low density is no better bar for the mind for bats.
It creates the illusion of power and there nothing wrong in that.
For me a bat is a bat get one that suits you more than what it is supposed to be or not be.
I have a couple of pro bats including a match used James Taylor which goes like anything and picks up like anything and feels great but it's 2-11 and extremely well balanced.
top pro get there pick the rest end up with grade 2 normally and bumped up bats.
About pressing well if there not "batch pressed" then a skilled person can get something out of most bits of timber.
I have had bats with over 30 grains and bats with only 5 I have had dense clefts and I have had light clefts.
You alone can only make a judgment on a bat
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Not sure I will call it pro willow but when my trusted batmaker or brand tell me a certain bat or cleft is phenomenal i tend to spend the little extra as i trust them and haven't been disappointed so far...but that level of trust is only with very very few brands
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Pro willow is that what I pick my old haunt let me pick but I tended to let them as long as it was from a certain pile I have everything from grade 4 to crown immaculate And guess what I scored runs with all
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Good old pro willow I guess I have quite a few low density in the last few years.
Low density is no better bar for the mind for bats.
It creates the illusion of power and there nothing wrong in that.
For me a bat is a bat get one that suits you more than what it is supposed to be or not be.
I have a couple of pro bats including a match used James Taylor which goes like anything and picks up like anything and feels great but it's 2-11 and extremely well balanced.
top pro get there pick the rest end up with grade 2 normally and bumped up bats.
About pressing well if there not "batch pressed" then a skilled person can get something out of most bits of timber.
I have had bats with over 30 grains and bats with only 5 I have had dense clefts and I have had light clefts.
You alone can only make a judgment on a bat
So are you saying an 80mm+ Spine does not guarantee better performance than a 60mm spine ? I would've thought it would.
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Think its all in the head. When I was young I had a few G2 bats which ex-pros would borrow and smash hundreds with at will. They were well knocked in but I didn't have the timing or power to do what they did. I guess if you're used to e.g. G3 blades then a G1 will make a small difference but the reality is that a G2 will go just as well in the right hands.....
Of course a G1 will always look better - so you should probably buy one and post pics here
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So are you saying an 80mm+ Spine does not guarantee better performance than a 60mm spine ? I would've thought it would.
Why?
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So are you saying an 80mm+ Spine does not guarantee better performance than a 60mm spine ? I would've thought it would.
Why would a massive bat play any better than a bat smaller but more weight behind it.
I'm telling you I know it doesn't both theory and practical side of things tell me this too.
you sound surprised it has been on the forum explaining this for around 4 years have a look through some threads
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The physics is simple - F=MA where power (F) is a product of the (M)ass of the bat and the (A)cceleration of the shot at impact. Bigger bats make no difference to the calculation but bat design will have an effect on the exact mass affecting the ball at impact and the speed of bat swing. This is where design comes in. I suppose the perfect bat for a club player would be a flat plank with a duckbill and thin toe and splice. This would help maximise the MA calculation by allowing for off centre shots. It would probably lead to a few broken bats as well. I think the B3 Series DB2 is a really good compromise of putting this into practice.
Pros don't hit the ball off centre as much which is why a huge spine, big edges and concaving work better for them. For the rest of us it might make you feel more confident but that's probably it.
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The physics is simple - F=MA where power (F) is a product of the (M)ass of the bat and the (A)cceleration of the shot at impact. Bigger bats make no difference to the calculation but bat design will have an effect on the exact mass affecting the ball at impact and the speed of bat swing. This is where design comes in. I suppose the perfect bat for a club player would be a flat plank with a duckbill and thin toe and splice. This would help maximise the MA calculation by allowing for off centre shots. It would probably lead to a few broken bats as well. I think the B3 Series DB2 is a really good compromise of putting this into practice.
Pros don't hit the ball off centre as much which is why a huge spine, big edges and concaving work better for them. For the rest of us it might make you feel more confident but that's probably it.
Should add that I think the B3 Series DB2 is a great example of a design that helps maximise this calculation. Lots of meat through the middle, minimal concaving and a reduced toe and splice which still provide strength. Picks up great, too.
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1271 is the pinnacle of the point and coverage of wood is important and agreed you need wood all over because we are club players who hit the ball all over the place on the bat as said earlier
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A crown willow Trott and you're laughing, it's deffo next on my list.
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Can't say I've noticed a difference but it is mentally nice to have a huge bat that is 2.9/10 rather than 2-13+
As someone said below, it's about trusting a bat maker to produce the best bat and then finding the one feels right for you. Anything mass produced is riskier on performance front IMO but im sure you can get guns from anyone
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Here's a thought if lower density willow didn't give you a bigger bat and improved performance why bother with it
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Here's a thought if lower density willow didn't give you a bigger bat and improved performance why bother with it
It gives a bigger bat, not improved performance.
Why bother with it? Growing Willow takes years, you wouldn't cut the tree down then dispose of half the clefts because they're too heavy or to light, you'd make bats or of all of them wouldn't you.
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Crown Willow, Pro Willow, Test Grade Willow ...
There could be some truth to it but I personally think it's mostly a marketing gimmick to rob your wallets.
It's the same Willow Trees. Those trees have not suddenly started to produce some extra special kind of timber, or did they?
Every other year, a new "willow term" is created, some new stickers are put on the bats and price is hijacked. Some new "over drying" tricks are developed to make the bats look bigger and fatter in regular weight.
Newbury got a bat for £1000.00, GN got one for £850, PUMA and KOOK got it for £850 - I mean, what the heck? Are these coming from some new genetically modified trees?
This is the same quality of willow that was marketed for less money a few years ago under the tag of Grade 1, then grade 1+, then grade 1++ etc. A now it's "Pro Willow" for 5 times more of the price.
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They do perform better than normal grade willow, but they wouldn't last more than few years at most. And there isn't HUGE difference from grade 1 and Pro grade.
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Crown Willow, Pro Willow, Test Grade Willow ...
There could be some truth to it but I personally think it's mostly a marketing gimmick to rob your wallets.
It's the same Willow Trees. Those trees have not suddenly started to produce some extra special kind of timber, or did they?
Every other year, a new "willow term" is created, some new stickers are put on the bats and price is hijacked. Some new "over drying" tricks are developed to make the bats look bigger and fatter in regular weight.
Newbury got a bat for £1000.00, GN got one for £850, PUMA and KOOK got it for £850 - I mean, what the heck? Are these coming from some new genetically modified trees?
This is the same quality of willow that was marketed for less money a few years ago under the tag of Grade 1, then grade 1+, then grade 1++ etc. A now it's "Pro Willow" for 5 times more of the price.
This.
Seems to apply to a lot of things these days.
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If people will pay for it someone will sell it. I think i agree, low density doesnt make much difference.
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It gives a bigger bat, not improved performance.
Why bother with it? Growing Willow takes years, you wouldn't cut the tree down then dispose of hand the clefts because they're too heavy or to light, you'd make bats or of all of them wouldn't you.
What's willow growing or disposing of clefts got to do with this thread ? No need to get clever pal.
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What's willow growing or disposing of clefts got to do with this thread ? No need to get clever pal.
Urrrrm, I wasn't "getting clever", I simply answered the question you asked, "pal"...
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What's willow growing or disposing of clefts got to do with this thread ? No need to get clever pal.
He had a point with his willow post.. if you want to see th in difference, find a few planks from hawk
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Urrrrm, I wasn't "getting clever", I simply answered the question you asked, "pal"...
If I need a question answered I know who to ask and it isn't you.
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If I need a question answered I know who to ask and it isn't you.
Don't ask it in a public forum then...
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Sigh...
Here we go again.
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Don't ask it in a public forum then...
You really grind the gears it wasn't a question it was a thought.
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You really grind the gears it wasn't a question it was a thought.
Sorry that expressing my views on a forum grinds your gears, I thought that's what discussion threads were for.
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As much as i would love to get a "Pro" willow bat, its not worth it.
I have seen some many $200/300 SS bats which ping equal or better than pro bats. I have also seen many grade 2 bats ping crazy once they are ready
So not worth paying extra money for pro willow.
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I think a lot of it is mental. I think the collective knowledge on the forum has shown that there's just as many G2 pingers as G1+. A Rolex tells the time just like a normal watch, but I know which one I'd rather have!
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I think a lot of it is mental. I think the collective knowledge on the forum has shown that there's just as many G2 pingers as G1+. A Rolex tells the time just like a normal watch, but I know which one I'd rather have!
A fake Rolex ?
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One advantage of a g1 is some batmakers downgrade planks. Therefore ur more likely to get a gooden. Ive also been told g1 should last longer with less knots and weak spots.
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One advantage of a g1 is some batmakers downgrade planks. Therefore ur more likely to get a gooden. Ive also been told g1 should last longer with less knots and weak spots.
But don't some blemishes (I'm thinking hard bars and butterfly stains) make the wood stronger, so they'd (theoretically) last longer than a perfectly clean all sapwood G1?
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But don't some blemishes (I'm thinking hard bars and butterfly stains) make the wood stronger, so they'd (theoretically) last longer than a perfectly clean all sapwood G1?
Truth is i dont know. Only going on personal experience and what ive been told. Its a good point, I thought it made it firmer, rather than stronger.
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Truth is i dont know. Only going on personal experience and what ive been told. Its a good point, I thought it made it firmer, rather than stronger.
People will tell you what will sell a bat for the most £££.. G1 will be sold as better as it fetches more money. Enough bat makers on here have clearly stated that grade doesn't make a difference, each piece relies on good bat making skills and pressing.. Even then, naturally some pieces in all grades and densities will perform better than others
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In terms of the grade of willow I am not convinced as I mentioned before that the grade of willow makes a better bat. I would rather have apparently second rate willow from a fine batmaker than the best willow known to man from a lesser maker. To me the pressing and handling are what determine the quality of the bat. The cost issue surely is something different. Popularity (demand) and scarcity (supply) are what determine the price. Very light and oversized clefts with loads of perfect grains are scarce and popular hence the prices. How many retailers want bats with butterfly even though in the write hands it makes a pinger....
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You really grind the gears it wasn't a question it was a thought.
Without wanting to derail the thread, you really seem to have a chip on your shoulder SP. The number of times I see threads where you have apparently been insulted is remarkable. All Cam did was make a valid point and because it contradicts what you were saying it rubbed you up the wrong way?
Anyway, back on topic. I've had many conversations about this with people I know. One is a Premier League player who isn't sponsored by but has access to 'Pro Willow' from one of the guys at Newbery. He swears blind that his 'Pro bats' are absolutely worth the outlay. He say's that straight, evenly spaced grains will mean the wood is more consistent throughout the bat and therefore this makes the bat better. I'm not convinced as he averaged about 9 last season, though he insist it's not the stick that is (No Swearing Please), it's what's holding the end of it thats the problem. A fair point.
Another person I have spoken to is an A Level Physics teacher who is the wife of our Chairman and knows relatively little about cricket. When I explained the theory about two bats of equal weight but one bat being physically bigger than the other one, she had a real long think about it. She said while it's not as simple as F=MA, the likelihood of the variables adding up to make a significant difference in performance would be negligible.
So, my theory is that a piece of willow is a piece of willow. They are obviously natural products and vary slightly but the vast improvement of the performance comes in the pressing and handling of the cleft, so I think any differences in the block of wood make such a relatively minimal difference to the end results in performance that I doubt it really is worth shelling out £350 for a G1+ over a £170 butterfly.
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I've always sworn by it being the skill of the bat maker rather than the grade of wood that determines the performance. Ignoring anomalies like butterfly stains etc, all willow is largely the same - it's the quality of the pressing and handling that makes the majority of the difference.
You could have the best cleft of perfectly grained willow in the world, if it's pressed to within an inch of its life then it'll still end up a plank!
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I've always sworn by it being the skill of the bat maker rather than the grade of wood that determines the performance. Ignoring anomalies like butterfly stains etc, all willow is largely the same - it's the quality of the pressing and handling that makes the majority of the difference.
You could have the best cleft of perfectly grained willow in the world, if it's pressed to within an inch of its life then it'll still end up a plank!
agree with this it's the skill of the batmaker also for me, I don't actually own a G1 bat currently, it's not going to make me play any better, having spoken to a couple of batmakers Grade 2 really is just as good providing you don't always want a perfectly asthetic (I think that's the right word) bat.
Personally I don't think i'm good enough to have any significant difference using an absolute top-of-the-range bat.
a grade 2 from salix,warsop, H4L I would consider perfectly adequate to use. One thing to mention is the balance, how they do it I don't know but the best batmakers make it pick up better(whether it's grade 1 or 2)
just my thoughts.
:)
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Without wanting to derail the thread, you really seem to have a chip on your shoulder SP. The number of times I see threads where you have apparently been insulted is remarkable. All Cam did was make a valid point and because it contradicts what you were saying it rubbed you up the wrong way?
Anyway, back on topic. I've had many conversations about this with people I know. One is a Premier League player who isn't sponsored by but has access to 'Pro Willow' from one of the guys at Newbery. He swears blind that his 'Pro bats' are absolutely worth the outlay. He say's that straight, evenly spaced grains will mean the wood is more consistent throughout the bat and therefore this makes the bat better. I'm not convinced as he averaged about 9 last season, though he insist it's not the stick that is (No Swearing Please), it's what's holding the end of it thats the problem. A fair point.
Another person I have spoken to is an A Level Physics teacher who is the wife of our Chairman and knows relatively little about cricket. When I explained the theory about two bats of equal weight but one bat being physically bigger than the other one, she had a real long think about it. She said while it's not as simple as F=MA, the likelihood of the variables adding up to make a significant difference in performance would be negligible.
So, my theory is that a piece of willow is a piece of willow. They are obviously natural products and vary slightly but the vast improvement of the performance comes in the pressing and handling of the cleft, so I think any differences in the block of wood make such a relatively minimal difference to the end results in performance that I doubt it really is worth shelling out £350 for a G1+ over a £170 butterfly.
No chip just of the opinion certian people on here. Are always ready to pounce with a condensending comment regarding what others write mabe best to ignore them.
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No chip just of the opinion certian people on here. Are always ready to pounce with a condensending comment regarding what others write mabe best to ignore them.
My comment was in no way meant to be condescending. You posted your thought and I added something to it that popped into my head.
If it came across in that way I apologise, but I was in no way pouncing on anyone or trying to put anyone down
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Ladies! Lets not de-rail another thread lol
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Ladies! Lets not de-rail another thread lol
When I try to keep it on topic I get acused if pouncing on people and being condescending so I thought going off on a tangent was safer (as long as I don't mention sex, as that's boring apparently) :(
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To put this to bed a pro willow cricket bat is such because the person on the other end is better than us using it and is paid to do so .....
Buy a god dam bat that suits
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Just look at the AOC gear test this year! The top ranking B3 bat was a 1 stripe in roughly 6th. The grade of a bat is only relevant to the person using it, weight, pick up and looks all come in to it but at the end of the day it's all about what suits the player.
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Just be careful which pro willow you get as I made the mistake of buying Chris martin willow and the results have been disastrous
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I wouldn't want this pro willow either ...
https://twitter.com/CountyChamp/status/724974458352615424
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Think I showcase a few of the bats I got tonight if I have time from a couple of pro both good bats do not get me wrong But I have had better.
I knocked in a couple that went to Ben stokes both where good but no better than a normal bat and if I remember they where quite heavy too but after knocking in like most they would go well.