Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: Buzz on July 22, 2016, 09:45:39 PM
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Please can someone/anyone explain why he is considered by internet supporters to be virtually the next Warne?
He has done well in odi cricket where the pace off the ball and the fact batters have to go after the bowling which gives him an advantage.
But seriously test matches?
He will get smashed.
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I think he should get a few tests to see how he does, as a second spinner. It says alot he is second to a batter ....
There is a spot for rashid with stokes ali and woakes in the lower order.
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Please can someone/anyone explain why he is considered by internet supporters to be virtually the next Warne?
He has done well in odi cricket where the pace off the ball and the fact batters have to go after the bowling which gives him an advantage.
But seriously test matches?
He will get smashed.
Because to improve, you need to play against the best. He could improve, but only by playing test matches.
Will Hegel smashed? Maybe, but maybe not.
Look at Warne. He went 1-335 in his first 4 test matches.
He's also the best "proper" spinner England have. Some times you have to give the guy a shot and say, let's see what you can do in the next 12 months.
I do think "the next Warne" would be a almost a miracle, more like "the next MacGill"
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I think it's more that he's considered by internet supporters to be better than Moeen Ali. Which isn't difficult at the moment!
In fairness, he's definitely got more consistent this year. Given that Ali is contributing nothing, why not try Rashid instead? Rashid did take a 5fer only a couple of games ago.
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He did a lot more than Moeen managed in the UAE.
Don't get me wrong, he's no Shane Warne, but he's certainly better than what we currently have in the side.
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Because for some reason Saint moeen can do no wrong but is truly awful. Play a proper spinner
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Surely he's worth a punt he's no warne or shah but surely he can contribute to more than Ali is ATM
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Ali could yet take a ten-for at OT. Feels like he's in last chance saloon though.
There must be some one better out there? If not Rashid then why not Batty, or Treadwell or Ollie Rayner or someone? Surely an insult to these career pros that they think Ali is a better bowler?
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Who said he was the next Warne?
Bad trolling from Buzz, pointless thread, isnt all of this spoke about in the pakistan england thread
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Who said he was the next Warne?
Bad trolling from Buzz, pointless thread, isnt all of this spoke about in the pakistan england thread
He does sent to have a proper bee in his bonnet r.e Rashid.
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Agreed. Didn't appreciate the tone of Buzz's original post.
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Who said he was the next Warne?
Bad trolling from Buzz, pointless thread, isnt all of this spoke about in the pakistan england thread
Not trolling. I don't think Rashid has enough to be a successful test spinner. Everyone seems to do Moeen down and I wanted to understand why people like him. I wanted to have a different thread to the Pakistan one as it isn't the same topic!
It is telling that no one has said his first class stats, how he has bowled for Yorkshire in the last year or so. How have his lions performances been?
What about the time when he... (Add specific brilliant performance against a quality side)
It is all saying we don't like moeen.
No one can justify Rashid's selection through performance. I recognise he is a decent player but I think he isn't going to offer more than moeen does.
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Wouldn't Saqlain qualify for England these days ?..... he's already in the dressing room so why not get him ouf there ! ;)
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Obviously rashid has performed well in the recent odi series, but the lad will never come on as a test bowler if he isn't given the chance, if he's given the chance and doesn't give us much then least we'll then know but you can't say he wouldn't offer much if he's not given a go
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I think the only way he was going to play in this Test was as a second spinner. In hindsight, with nearly 600 runs on the board, he perhaps should have done!
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Ali could yet take a ten-for at OT. Feels like he's in last chance saloon though.
There must be some one better out there? If not Rashid then why not Batty, or Treadwell or Ollie Rayner or someone? Surely an insult to these career pros that they think Ali is a better bowler?
Omg Treadwell? Seriously? :D
Time to start looking at South African juniors for the next English spinner maybe ;)
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Omg Treadwell? Seriously? :D
Time to start looking at South African juniors for the next English spinner maybe ;)
The last saffa spinner to come here didn't end up too shabby tbf
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Good luck with your Saffa's in the future, Brexit will probably have ruined that one too - it's an EU agreement!
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He on,y turned out to be one of the best England batsmen of the modern day, scored a few runs for being a front line spinner
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Rashid ommission has to do with his inability to control an end and englands best bowlers being seamers (anderson, broad and, in the last tests, woakes)
I like Rashid but if you compare the speed he bowls, 47-49mph to Yasir who is near to 55mph. In a world of flat tracks and strong cricketers it is enough momentum to be aggressive with a higher percentage of being successful. Hence the selectors are reluctant to bring him in the squad.
Ali offers a perception of control, cough, as he will bowl less long hops, cough, and you can set a field to a ball turning in as it less likely to go through the off side due to the speed. Methods to play spin generally encourage playing with rather than against it.
I am surprised we haven't see a left arm off spinner come to the fore for England - different topic but still interesting
Ultimately, Rashid is too much of a high risk option for a group of sectors and a captain who are, generally, riskavese. As shown by the decision to bat again in the test. It's no coincidence Rahsid is in the T20 and 50 over formats with a more risk taking captain in Morgan.
Before you all start that is a supportive statement for Morgan as test Captain - although it would be fun if infuriating!!
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I recognise he is a decent player but I think he isn't going to offer more than moeen does.
My reason for wanting Rashid in is this: He may or may not offer any more than Moeen but at the moment Moeen is offering so little why not give Rashid a try and find out for sure.
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if we are going to play woakes and stokes we have enough depth to play Rashid. Pakistan play spin brilliantly but not every other team does.
but he didn't get picked at Manchester so unless he gets a gig at the Oval pretty sure England has got him as a one day bowler now which is a shame. yes you do need an adventurous captain if a leggie is in the side.
I cant see either what there is too lose by playing him, Ali will get wickets caught on the boundary.
surprised no one has mentioned an alternative thou of liam dawson
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Moeen does currently have a better average this series than the No 1 bowler in the world / 'Best leggie since Warne'
Jus sayin......
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Moeen does currently have a better average this series than the No 1 bowler in the world / 'Best leggie since Warne'
Jus sayin......
hearin ya.
:)
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Ali is obviously crap - look at the dross he gets with dross.
Misbah - twice already this series
Sangakkara x 2
Thirimanne
Dhawan
Vijay
Rahane x 2
Rohit
Pujara x 2
Kohli
Dhoni
Darren Bravo
Williamson
S Smith
Clarke
Warner
Haddin
And then I got bored.
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It is telling that no one has said his first class stats, how he has bowled for Yorkshire in the last year or so. How have his lions performances been?
What about the time when he... (Add specific brilliant performance against a quality side)
No one can justify Rashid's selection through performance. I recognise he is a decent player but I think he isn't going to offer more than moeen does.
Utter rubbish, you ought to know better.
Firstly, on the strange case of Moeen Ali...England, post Graeme Swann, decided that they didn't have a frontline spinner who was worthy of selection of the 2014 series with Sri Lanka and India, so picked ALi as a batsman, figuring they would fiddle a few overs out of him. In that series, he batted at six (with Ben Stokes, in as a seamer, at eight) and batted just about well enough to be given an extended run in the side. Then he took a couple of bags against a demoralised India side, and the clamour for him to be deemed a frontline test spinner began. He forgot about his batting, got moved up and down the order in both Test and One Day sides, and was generally treated as the eleventh name on the team sheet. Indeed, he has a claim to being the second worst treated England player of recent times, behind YJB (though at least he was always in the team). Is Ali test class? As a bowler, clearly not - he is a bit better than the Alan Border "give us a few overs to rest the qwuicks" role, but he is nowhere near good enough to be a front line bowler. As a batsman? I'd say probably not, though I feel slightly sorry for the lad when I say it, because he hasn't had a proper run at it.
So, the question becomes, do we have a guy decent enough to be selected as that frontline spinner? Various names have been mentioned in recent times - discounting Samit Patel, who is similar to Ali in that he is a batting all rounder at best, you're left with what might be termed "the veterans" - Tredwell and Batty - who I would prefer to avoid simply because we should be trying to move things forward, and then a handful of younger players - Borthwick (though most people want to select him as a batsman), Rashid, Crane and Ansari.
Of those, who is the most likely to perform a spinner's primary function and bowl a side out on day five to win a test? Well, that'd be Rashid (for now - I suspect Crane might surpass him in 2-3 years time). He may be less adept at the secondary function, that of blocking up an end on the first and second days (though he has improved markedly in that regard) but lets face it, we have four top class quicks already to bowl the majority of those overs, even before you consider the possibility of playing with six bowling options.
Stats? His first class record over the past four years is better than any other contenders, and is exclusively in division one of the Championship. Note that that "better" applies to his overall record" - he's at last as good a bat as Chris Woakes and far better than Stuart Broad, and a very decent fielder. Impressive performances? The fivefer on Test debut, rolling Pakistan on an absolute road, nearly setting up the most improbably of wins doesn't count? Tell me one better performance from Moeen in 40 tests...
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You is from Yorkshire innit? :)
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You is from Yorkshire innit? :)
Thats pretty irrelevant though
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It's very relevant - he's clearly outrageously biaised towards his man as all one-eyed Yorkshiremen are.
Thank heavens there's no-one from Worcester on here, we'd be having a right old ding dong battle!
Give it up for Olly Rayner I say - clearly under-rated.
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Doesn't being a Yorkshireman also mean that - in theory at least - you've, you know, seen Rashid bowl quite a bit?
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Possibly - but don't let common sense get in the way of having a little fun.
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My mistake! :D
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It's very relevant - he's clearly outrageously biaised towards his man as all one-eyed Yorkshiremen are.
Au contraire - I'd much rather England ****ed off and left our players alone. I think you'll find I've referenced actual, y'know, facts to support what is a clearly reasonable opinion...
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🎣🎣🎣
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Childish chat lads
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I would much rather see who ever comes in (if Moeen is every dropped) to be considered a far better spinner than his is a batsman. as with Jimmy getting on a bit, even with a few years left in him. I believe you can coach a batsman out of a bowler rather than a bowler out of a batsman. Everyone has to bat at some point but not everyone bowls there for the bowler will have some batting experience (albiet little).
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Adil Rashid is probably the best attacking spinner we've got, but are we really after an attacking spinner? It's no secret the strength of the bowling is seam/swing. Therefore in home conditions we can get away with a dud spinner like Moeen Ali. But if we have serious ambitions of being a long time ranked number 1 side, we need a front line spinner.
Whilst Moeen Ali takes the odd wicket, he seldom earns wickets. More often than not it's batsmen error. Therefore using the laws of diminishing returns, Moeen Ali's 'luck' will eventually run dry...
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You is from Yorkshire innit? :)
Yes, if you think Ali G is from Wensleydale?
Listen and learn. "Thas frum Yorkshur in't tha."
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Wasn't Ali G from Langley, Slough?
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Wasn't Ali G from Langley, Slough?
Pontypridd, just outside Cardiff.
Wait. What was this thread about again?
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Without wanting to send @Manormanic's Yorkshire tea flying at the screen Adam Lyth should have been persevered with, impossible to predict Compton and Taylor not playing this summer but Alex hales I think will make a good middle order player in gone long term and opener in the short form of the game. I know Lyth got out the same way last summer but hales has holes in technique I can't see him fixing.
Spinner wise I would have rashid in but we are going to Bangladesh and five tests against India in the autumn. Our seamers did well in Dubai and Abu Dhabi it's a big ask for them to do it again on flat dust bowls.
Ali and rasnid maybe for that tour and ansari of Surrey? Not much to choose from is there...
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Wasn't Ali G from Langley, Slough?
Umm. Staines. Slough is like the poor relation.
Apologies if anyone is from Slough
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Umm. Staines. Slough is like the poor relation.
Apologies if anyone is from Slough
:(
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Umm. Staines. Slough is like the poor relation.
Apologies if anyone is from Slough
Wasnt it grew up in Slough, lived in Staines? wasn't he part of the Berkshire massive? or something... staines is in surrey right?
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Staines is in Surrey. Believe also hard fi the group,few hits a while back,also from there.
I dont actually know much about ali g.
Its fattus cattus manor ive only ever seen him in cricket gear but for all i know he blings up on a night out with gold chains and says ' safe ' to everyone in the evenings.
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Yes, if you think Ali G is from Wensleydale?
The it would be 'Alec G' and he'd be blooooody miserable whilst rapping 'On Ilkley moor bat t'at'
He would also have a golden whippet on a chain.
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And before any of you Tea-guzzlers get on my case, it's even worse for me - my family are in the Scottish Borders, where we are known as 'prickle-dicks'
One foot in England - one foot in Scotland - and our plonkers dangling in the heather :)
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Have to agree that Hales should be in the middle order. But that opens the opening spot issue again!
But back to Rashid... Can always rely on Manormanic to favour the Yorkshire pie chucker!
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Staines is in Surrey. Believe also hard fi the group,few hits a while back,also from there.
I remember Hard-Fi for this absolute banger!
https://youtu.be/fGardUiWjR4
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Unbelievable song. Is there anything else in Slough apart from Wernham Hogg?
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Farnham Park, the home of British Baseball is Slough (well technically it's Farnham, clue in the name, but it has Slough in the address)
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Is it just me that as soon as Ali G is mentioned can only think of this scene https://youtu.be/y30I8Gl0N4Y
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True story: a friend of a friend is married to me Julie
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Anyway, with Stokes injured and a doubt for the next test, they could play two spinners?
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where is the next test - does it spin there?
Unfortunately, looking at the opportunity for selection given to them here, England seem afraid of picking 2 spinners.
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Edgbaston
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And is that known for any spin at all?
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Anyway, with Stokes injured and a doubt for the next test, they could play two spinners?
hmmm..they could.....but don't think they will. Edgbaston should turn late on but likely to be a more seaming wicket than old Trafford.
Ball back in I reckon, Finn looks out of sorts. It's the batsmen really that are the issue. We are being carried by two world class players, have been for a while.
I think myself, appreciate other think very differently, we start with the openers and Hales goes to the middle order. Don't think it will happen thou. Then you pick one from balance or Vince.
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And is that known for any spin at all?
generally it's quite dry and does spin alot later on, Jeetan Patel has taken bag of wickets there for years. However where there is spin there is seam! Many bowlers have taken a hand full there, (Sidebottom, Giles, C Overton, Samit...)? So a tough decision i reckon but if at all fit (Which Finn wont be as he tweeted himself from a hospital bed!) maybe Ball back in? If not then i have an gut feeling they might just have a close eye on Mark Wood.
We shall see
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Finn has had his toenails removed, but will be fit.
@pccopener neither Ballance or Vince?!
Oi, this thread is supposed to be about championing anyone other than Rashid not discussing Ali G or Finn's toenail removal.
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loving the Ali G stuff actually Buzz :) innit ?
sorry just to clarify I think Hales is a middle order player. Vince and Balance? well.......I would have one of them not both.pick the best one and move Hales into the middle.
Seen your posts saying now you think Hales should bat there too(in the middle).. if so who would you have as opener?
Spinning wise.......god that's hard...sticking with the 'not rashid' thread then........Ansari of Surrey maybe, Liam Dawson I think would be my choice if it's not Adil
this is not a new problem, since Swann retired the cupboard has been bare...he was a true class performer for England and we miss him badly.
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Lets realistically look at the options -
Tredwell - Noooooooooooooooooooooooo
Batty - Noooooooooooooooooooooooo - backwards step
Ansari - Needs Lions time
Crane - needs Lions Time
Rashid - next cab off the rank
Dawson - seen as an ODI option
Kerrigan - Is he taking many wickets this year
No one is pulling up any trees, and no-one is anywhere near international class - this is a sad indictment on the county system. Might as well pick me - I'd do a job!
For me, give Kerrigan or Rashid a game alongside Mo - they won't be any worse, and they might actually be a bit better.
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Thing is that Moeen has a brilliant strike rate and we have bowlers who can block up an end, I would stick with moeen.
Ideally I would have Hales at 4, Bairstow at 5 and Moeen 6 in stokes' absence.
As for opening, any one of the other Yorkshire opener, westley of Essex, B-D of Kent.
Ansari is proving to be a bit of a sick note.
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Thing is that Moeen has a brilliant strike rate and we have bowlers who can block up an end, I would stick with moeen.
Ideally I would have Hales at 4, Bairstow at 5 and Moeen 6 in stokes' absence.
As for opening, any one of the other Yorkshire opener, westley of Essex, B-D of Kent.
Ansari is proving to be a bit of a sick note.
Westley bats 3 for Essex though, i might be wrong but weren't both Hales and Compton number 3s for their county before opening for England and it's not played out well (yet) for either of them.
I'll be honest I don't have the best knowledge of the county championship players but for me i'd be focusing my attention on an out and out opener.
Wasn't Sam Robson scoring decently in the championship earlier in the season, and Bell-Drummond's been scoring decently for the Lions/county
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Adam Lyth. The most talented player, and richly deserving of another chance. As long as they give us Gary Ballance back in return.
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Adam Lyth. The most talented player, and richly deserving of another chance. As long as they give us Gary Ballance back in return.
deal !!
WE ARE ENGLAND BUILT IN THE NORTH :)
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Westley bats 3 for Essex though, i might be wrong but weren't both Hales and Compton number 3s for their county before opening for England and it's not played out well (yet) for either of them.
I'll be honest I don't have the best knowledge of the county championship players but for me i'd be focusing my attention on an out and out opener.
Wasn't Sam Robson scoring decently in the championship earlier in the season, and Bell-Drummond's been scoring decently for the Lions/county
Hales started as an opener and generally he opens for for notts in all forms but has batted in the middle order (County champ) and at 3 (County champ and 40/50 over)
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I'm gonna make a bold statement
Brett D'oliviera!
Both opens the batting and bowls some consistent leggies!
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borthwick would be first surely?
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Is it just me that as soon as Ali G is mentioned can only think of this scene https://youtu.be/y30I8Gl0N4Y
[/quote
I think of the closing credits song......
Julie . You know me love you truly .
From me head down to me goolies .
Ah . Ah . You turn me on with your big Babylons .
:D
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He did a lot more than Moeen managed in the UAE.
Don't get me wrong, he's no Shane Warne, but he's certainly better than what we currently have in the side.
(http://i.imgur.com/nQlUPCA.png)
I'm listening...
(http://i.imgur.com/wPKo2nf.gif)
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Wasnt it grew up in Slough, lived in Staines? wasn't he part of the Berkshire massive? or something... staines is in surrey right?
'Me and da West Staines Massive , iiight '!
East Staines is da best .
No , West Staines is da best .
No, East Staines is da best........
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Rashid has asked to sit out of the championship decider because he wants a rest.
I would be fuming if I was a Yorkshire fan.
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This is typical Rashid.
Bottler.
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Wouldn't bat an eyelid if he didn't play another game for our great club again.
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Put him in the stiffs next year, take him down a peg. what has he done to earn a rest, pathetic.
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Not good that is it....you would think he would want to play in a crucial match.
Andrew gale on Twitter don't sound too impressed either.The ECB have cleared rasnid to play and he don't want to, the ECB have not cleared bairstow when he is desperate to play.
It's all very well some on these boards moaning about moaning Yorkshire fans but this seems a justifiable reason to have a right moan!!!!
It's a tipsy turvey world :)
Rashid clearly does not know Bangladesh and India are going to be tough. Bit of a worry that. Maybe Batty will get on the field in front of him for Emgland on tour ?
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Rashid has asked to sit out of the championship decider because he wants a rest.
REALLY? What a prize t*t.
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That's plain awful from Rashid, surly you would have thought he would be busting a gut to play in a game where you win and your league champions espically after playing in he majority of the county's campaign.
Also feel for JB he has had 16 days off I believe and if anything like me I'm chomping at the bit for Jan nets to start let alone next season. He wants to play for his county and make sure they have the best team out there but some suit thinks it's best to rest him? Who funds the ECB? My thought was the fans that pay to watch
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One wonders if there is a correlation between the number of ex-Middlesex players with the final say on availability and the number of decisions made to clearly favour Middlesex.
Oh look, there is...
An absolute disgrace - the ECB has again completely devalued the Championship. Strauss should be sacked!
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Hahahaha!! That's right, it's a Southern conspiracy that he's not playing. It's everyone else out to get the Yorkies and mess with their boy.
Hahahahaha bonk...............I have laughed my head off.
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Did I read correctly that YJB doesn't have a central contract?
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Did I read correctly that YJB doesn't have a central contract?
He does not, a believe buttler still has one as he was the main keeper this time last year.
Sure bairstow will be on one soon.
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Did I read correctly that YJB doesn't have a central contract?
considering when they were last announced he was a fringe player at best it's hardly surprising, he's nailed on for one now
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Rashid has been proper hung out to dry by his skipper there. Harsh imo, yes his being a little selfish but his got one career and his waited along time to get a run in the england side. I understand his decision. Hero, maybe not.
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Hahahaha!! That's right, it's a Southern conspiracy that he's not playing. It's everyone else out to get the Yorkies and mess with their boy.
Hahahahaha bonk...............I have laughed my head off.
Finn, also in the Bangladesh squad, has played waaaaaay more days in the last six months, as a bowler rather than batsman. He hasn't been forcibly rested for weeks on end. Same applies to Woakes, Ali, Duckett...
If you don't think its suspicious, I worry about you. In fact, if you don't think every available person should play the decider in the premier national competition...
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Luckily Yorkshire have that conveyor belt of virgin talent to fall back on.
Or hope Bresnan packs his good shovel for digging the White Rose out of a hole.
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I'm not sure why Bairstow isn't playing. But a conspiracy theory is a bit OTT.
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I worry about you. In fact,
Don't worry about me - my paranoia is complete in check.
I think you are pulling our plonkers.
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So if YJB isn't centrally contracted, how come the ECB can force him to be rested? I thought they had to be paying his wages to take such a liberty
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Rest period was scheduled a couple of months ago prior to the winter tours.
He's not contracted at the moment but the ECB can still insist on a rest period.
You might think there would be some re-think or flexibility...
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Poor thing deserves a rest, didn't even carry drinks during the test series.
As for YJB, 5 days of cricket in 5 weeks and he's making the right noises; don't really see how it'll do much harm considering Bangladesh will be a glorified tour match.
Oh, and Strauss...
What a great advertisement for cricket, one of the few county championship games that get televised and it'll no doubt be overshadowed by this whole debacle.
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https://www.facebook.com/AdilRashid95/photos/a.707233166071973.1073741828.697438987051391/949134265215194/?type=3&theater (https://www.facebook.com/AdilRashid95/photos/a.707233166071973.1073741828.697438987051391/949134265215194/?type=3&theater)
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Staggered Yorkshire made the statements they did given this, they should just have said he was unavailable due to personal reasons.
No one comes out of this well now.
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Not sure he mentioned any of that till after...
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I feel for Bairstow as he hasn't played a great deal of match cricket in the last few weeks but you would assume he has been training regularly. the break is mental rather than physical. however to get that mental break he needs to be away from cricket but he is desperate to play for his team and team mates. Unfortunately, the "rest" maybe of little benefit for him.
Rashid's stuff is very messy and could have been communicated better.
However, I feel Rashid has be caught up in the Bairstow topic because they are both missing but for two very separate reasons
which is a shame for Rashid at this time.
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How can they not allow Bairstow to play, but other England players have been playing? Woakes for example has played more for england this syummer than Bairstow, but was fine to play at the weekend.
Theres no wonder people are unhappy and feel Strauss and his Middlesex connections have anything to do with it
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Staggered Yorkshire made the statements they did given this, they should just have said he was unavailable due to personal reasons.
No one comes out of this well now.
To me it seems like he didn't explain his situation fully to the club or his captain - which doesn't really help.
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How can they not allow Bairstow to play, but other England players have been playing? Woakes for example has played more for england this syummer than Bairstow, but was fine to play at the weekend.
Theres no wonder people are unhappy and feel Strauss and his Middlesex connections have anything to do with it
bit of a dogs dinner this.Bayless says(I read in the paper don't shoot!) he liases with the player, which he has done this year when a break was scheduled for just before the tour(now). But if he liased with YJB now he don't want a rest....Bairstow is not contracted either....
As conspiracy theories go, it's not up there with the Yanks didn't land on the moon it was filmed in a studio, but it has got legs :) :o
Strauss had not had a good couple of weeks on the PR front