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Author Topic: Rashid ..  (Read 13525 times)

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Number4

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Re: Rashid ..
« Reply #15 on: July 24, 2016, 03:12:39 AM »

Ali could yet take a ten-for at OT. Feels like he's in last chance saloon though.
There must be some one better out there? If not Rashid then why not Batty, or Treadwell or Ollie Rayner or someone? Surely an insult to these career pros that they think Ali is a better bowler?

Omg Treadwell? Seriously?  :D

Time to start looking at South African juniors for the next English spinner maybe  ;)
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: Rashid ..
« Reply #16 on: July 24, 2016, 08:32:49 AM »

Omg Treadwell? Seriously?  :D

Time to start looking at South African juniors for the next English spinner maybe  ;)

The last saffa spinner to come here didn't end up too shabby tbf
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Neon Cricket

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Re: Rashid ..
« Reply #17 on: July 24, 2016, 09:06:13 AM »

Good luck with your Saffa's in the future, Brexit will probably have ruined that one too - it's an EU agreement!
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Jlscarroll17

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Re: Rashid ..
« Reply #18 on: July 24, 2016, 01:48:59 PM »

He on,y turned out to be one of the best England batsmen of the modern day, scored a few runs for being a front line spinner
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Mpt7

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Re: Rashid ..
« Reply #19 on: July 25, 2016, 09:12:11 AM »

Rashid ommission has to do with his inability to control an end and englands best bowlers being seamers (anderson, broad and, in the last tests, woakes)

I like Rashid but if you compare the speed he bowls, 47-49mph to Yasir who is near to 55mph. In a world of flat tracks and strong cricketers it is enough momentum to be aggressive with a higher percentage of being successful. Hence the selectors are reluctant to bring him in the squad.

Ali offers a perception of control, cough, as he will bowl less long hops, cough, and you can set a field to a ball turning in as it less likely to go through the off side due to the speed. Methods to play spin generally encourage playing with rather than against it.

I am surprised we haven't see a left arm off spinner come to the fore for England - different topic but still interesting

Ultimately, Rashid is too much of a high risk option for a group of sectors and a captain who are, generally, riskavese. As shown by the decision to bat again in the test. It's no coincidence Rahsid is in the T20 and 50 over formats with a more risk taking captain in Morgan. 

Before you all start that is a supportive statement for Morgan as test Captain - although it would be fun if infuriating!!
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northernboy1987

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Re: Rashid ..
« Reply #20 on: July 25, 2016, 09:19:54 AM »

I recognise he is a decent player but I think he isn't going to offer more than moeen does.

My reason for wanting Rashid in is this: He may or may not offer any more than Moeen but at the moment Moeen is offering so little why not give Rashid a try and find out for sure.
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ppccopener

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Re: Rashid ..
« Reply #21 on: July 25, 2016, 09:27:34 AM »

if we are going to play woakes and stokes we have enough depth to play Rashid. Pakistan play spin brilliantly but not every other team does.

but he didn't get picked at Manchester so unless he gets a gig at the Oval pretty sure England has got him as a one day bowler now which is a shame. yes you do need an adventurous captain if a leggie is in the side.

I cant see either what there is too lose by playing him, Ali will  get wickets caught on the boundary.

surprised no one has mentioned an alternative thou of liam dawson
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Rob580

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Re: Rashid ..
« Reply #22 on: July 25, 2016, 10:25:50 AM »

Moeen does currently have a better average this series than the No 1 bowler in the world / 'Best leggie since Warne'

Jus sayin......
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ppccopener

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Re: Rashid ..
« Reply #23 on: July 25, 2016, 10:32:27 AM »

Moeen does currently have a better average this series than the No 1 bowler in the world / 'Best leggie since Warne'

Jus sayin......

hearin ya.
 :)
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Alvaro

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Re: Rashid ..
« Reply #24 on: July 25, 2016, 10:38:32 AM »

Ali is obviously crap - look at the dross he gets with dross.

Misbah - twice already this series
Sangakkara x 2
Thirimanne
Dhawan
Vijay
Rahane x 2
Rohit
Pujara x 2
Kohli
Dhoni
Darren Bravo
Williamson
S Smith
Clarke
Warner
Haddin

And then I got bored.

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Manormanic

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Re: Rashid ..
« Reply #25 on: July 25, 2016, 02:06:10 PM »

It is telling that no one has said his first class stats, how he has bowled for Yorkshire in the last year or so. How have his lions performances been?
What about the time when he... (Add specific brilliant performance against a quality side) 

No one can justify Rashid's selection through performance. I recognise he is a decent player but I think he isn't going to offer more than moeen does.

Utter rubbish, you ought to know better.

Firstly, on the strange case of Moeen Ali...England, post Graeme Swann, decided that they didn't have a frontline spinner who was worthy of selection of the 2014 series with Sri Lanka and India, so picked ALi as a batsman, figuring they would fiddle a few overs out of him.  In that series, he batted at six (with Ben Stokes, in as a seamer, at eight) and batted just about well enough to be given an extended run in the side.  Then he took a couple of bags against a demoralised India side, and the clamour for him to be deemed a frontline test spinner began.  He forgot about his batting, got moved up and down the order in both Test and One Day sides, and was generally treated as the eleventh name on the team sheet.  Indeed, he has a claim to being the second worst treated England player of recent times, behind YJB (though at least he was always in the team).  Is Ali test class?  As a bowler, clearly not - he is a bit better than the Alan Border "give us a few overs to rest the qwuicks" role, but he is nowhere near good enough to be a front line bowler.  As a batsman?  I'd say probably not, though I feel slightly sorry for the lad when I say it, because he hasn't had a proper run at it.

So, the question becomes, do we have a guy decent enough to be selected as that frontline spinner?  Various names have been mentioned in recent times - discounting Samit Patel, who is similar to Ali in that he is a batting all rounder at best, you're left with what might be termed "the veterans" - Tredwell and Batty - who I would prefer to avoid simply because we should be trying to move things forward, and then a handful of younger players - Borthwick (though most people want to select him as a batsman), Rashid, Crane and Ansari.

Of those, who is the most likely to perform a spinner's primary function and bowl a side out on day five to win a test?  Well, that'd be Rashid (for now - I suspect Crane might surpass him in 2-3 years time).  He may be less adept at the secondary function, that of blocking up an end on the first and second days (though he has improved markedly in that regard) but lets face it, we have four top class quicks already to bowl the majority of those overs, even before you consider the possibility of playing with six bowling options.

Stats?  His first class record over the past four years is better than any other contenders, and is exclusively in division one of the Championship.  Note that that "better" applies to his overall record" - he's at last as good a bat as Chris Woakes and far better than Stuart Broad, and a very decent fielder.  Impressive performances?  The fivefer on Test debut, rolling Pakistan on an absolute road, nearly setting up the most improbably of wins doesn't count?  Tell me one better performance from Moeen in 40 tests...
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FattusCattus

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Re: Rashid ..
« Reply #26 on: July 25, 2016, 03:51:57 PM »

You is from Yorkshire innit? :)
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cricketbadger

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Re: Rashid ..
« Reply #27 on: July 25, 2016, 04:20:24 PM »

You is from Yorkshire innit? :)

Thats pretty irrelevant though
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FattusCattus

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Re: Rashid ..
« Reply #28 on: July 25, 2016, 04:30:18 PM »

It's very relevant - he's clearly outrageously biaised towards his man as all one-eyed Yorkshiremen are.

Thank heavens there's no-one from Worcester on here, we'd be having a right old ding dong battle!

Give it up for Olly Rayner I say - clearly under-rated.
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dannyhall04

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Re: Rashid ..
« Reply #29 on: July 25, 2016, 04:37:44 PM »

Doesn't being a Yorkshireman also mean that - in theory at least - you've, you know, seen Rashid bowl quite a bit?
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