Custom Bats Cricket Forum

Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: InternalTraining on August 02, 2017, 08:17:03 PM

Title: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: InternalTraining on August 02, 2017, 08:17:03 PM
How can we measure ping/rebound of a bat? What are the current standards that bat makers use? Are such standard kept secret from the public? Is there a formula or a calculation that can be done based on bat's weight to determine a Ping/Rebound "number"?
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: procricket on August 02, 2017, 08:21:49 PM
In a simple word no

Sound is no indicator neither
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: WalkingWicket37 on August 02, 2017, 08:22:29 PM
The It's Just Cricket ceiling test, as seen on youtube?
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: Howzat on August 02, 2017, 08:22:55 PM
Would it work if you had a cradle to hold the bat horizontal with a knocking in mallet on some sort of pivot that falls onto the bat with something measuring the time between the mallets first hit and the second? Obviously the longer the time between hits the better the 'ping'. Maybe some form of laser timing gates could be used.
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: procricket on August 02, 2017, 08:26:24 PM
Would it work if you had a cradle to hold the bat horizontal with a knocking in mallet on some sort of pivot that falls onto the bat with something measuring the time between the mallets first hit and the second? Obviously the longer the time between hits the better the 'ping'. Maybe some form of laser timing gates could be used.

If there was a perormance Id would they use it

Not a chance because they would never sell anything bat the top performing leaving lots of bats on the shelf

Good opening question though
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: edge on August 02, 2017, 08:29:12 PM
If you wanted to, you'd basically clamp a bat up and fire balls at it, then see how fast they came off. Baseball has a standard testing procedure in the US: http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2016PRBB_BBCOR_Protocol_20160901.pdf (http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2016PRBB_BBCOR_Protocol_20160901.pdf)
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: InternalTraining on August 02, 2017, 08:31:40 PM
Would it work if you had a cradle to hold the bat horizontal with a knocking in mallet on some sort of pivot that falls onto the bat with something measuring the time between the mallets first hit and the second? Obviously the longer the time between hits the better the 'ping'. Maybe some form of laser timing gates could be used.

How about tie the bat vertically, and drop the ball tied to a rope/thread so that it swings and strike that bat on a pre-determine spot (vertically), ball's rebound distance is assigned some number. Best performing bats will rebound the bats farther than duds.
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: LBWCandidate on August 02, 2017, 08:31:45 PM
Similar to what howzat mentioned. Keeping the bat stationary horizontally, drop the ball from a certain height and measure the bounce.
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: Howzat on August 02, 2017, 08:33:42 PM
How about tie the bat vertically, and drop the ball tied to a rope/thread so that it swings and strike that bat on a pre-determine spot (vertically), ball's rebound distance is assigned some number. Best performing bats will rebound the bats farther than duds.
Yes similar idea. I think the rebound would have to be timed automatically rather than measured manually for any precision.
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: procricket on August 02, 2017, 08:34:43 PM
What about bats maturing some reach there peak different pressing techniques some more ready than others.

I think you could do it through vibrations and inward and outward force quite simple but they wouldn't
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: InternalTraining on August 02, 2017, 08:38:44 PM

Not a chance because they would never sell anything bat the top performing leaving lots of bats on the shelf


There is inherent dishonesty in how bats are marketed and sold.

I think bats should be re-graded for different conditions and not just "aesthetic" (grain based) grading.

Clubbies who play in slow outfields may requires bats that are easier to play aerial shots with. Fast outfields may not require a lot of ping (case in point not so pingy "pro" bats). Bats for fast/bouncy pitches should be graded as such than slow/low pitch bats. Bat grading should be a combination of the different dimensions which would obviate the need for "ping" measurement being relevant.

As things stand now, knowing "ping" number of a bat would save buyers a lot of headache, heartache, and pocket-ache.
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: InternalTraining on August 02, 2017, 08:41:18 PM
What about bats maturing some reach there peak different pressing techniques some more ready than others.

I think you could do it through vibrations and inward and outward force quite simple but they wouldn't

I was thinking about this as well and this would be a very cool way of determining a bat's rebounad-ability (if there is such a word). Like using a sonogram on the bat's surface and see how the surface/bats resonates. They use something similar for classical musical instruments.
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: GoodLeave on August 02, 2017, 08:41:31 PM
If there was a perormance Id would they use it

Not a chance because they would never sell anything bat the top performing leaving lots of bats on the shelf

Good opening question though

Yep, agree with Dave. You could do it scientifically, but would manufacturers tell you how they score? No way. Commercial suicide.
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: InternalTraining on August 02, 2017, 08:44:27 PM
Gents, we are giving up too easily. Where are our scientists? :D
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: GoodLeave on August 02, 2017, 08:48:45 PM
Gents, we are giving up too easily. Where are our scientists? :D

Probably curing diseases, not listening to our nonesense  :D

If someone has the time and inclination to set up a rig to test ping, I'd love to see it.
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: InternalTraining on August 02, 2017, 08:52:24 PM
^ From what I have heard, James Laver has a rig he uses to determine which clefts are worthy of being called "Signature".
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: Dan W on August 02, 2017, 09:06:04 PM
Probably curing diseases, not listening to our nonesense  :D



lol :D
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: rsh107 on August 02, 2017, 09:48:41 PM
i cant remember exactly who did it (its on youtube somewhere). a bloke attached 3 bats to an air pressure powered lever arm, one was a gray nics, one a laver and wood and another older style bat. they used the bat swing speed and the same ball as constants and then measured the speed of the ball leaving the bat using a super slow motion camera. i cant remember the exact results but the 2 newer bats performed far better, as was to be expect
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: InternalTraining on August 02, 2017, 09:54:33 PM
Yes, I remember that video, it was done for some TV show.

I'd be interesting if someone could create a cheap rig that could be used by bat buyers before they paid for their bats.
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: edge on August 02, 2017, 11:15:01 PM
Gents, we are giving up too easily. Where are our scientists? :D

If you wanted to, you'd basically clamp a bat up and fire balls at it, then see how fast they came off. Baseball has a standard testing procedure in the US: [url]http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2016PRBB_BBCOR_Protocol_20160901.pdf[/url] ([url]http://www.ncaa.org/sites/default/files/2016PRBB_BBCOR_Protocol_20160901.pdf[/url])

Measuring ping is reeeeeally easy, we all do it with mallet tests. Quantifying that accurately is harder, but still not all that complicated.

I wonder if we'll ever see a maximum COR (ping) regulation introduced into cricket accompanied by deregulation on materials etc. Lots of potential benefits, limited supply of willow would cease to be a problem if composites were allowed to be used for example.
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: potzy248 on August 03, 2017, 01:53:29 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YVWJ9CqNJA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YVWJ9CqNJA)
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: InternalTraining on August 03, 2017, 02:23:35 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YVWJ9CqNJA (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0YVWJ9CqNJA)

Heavier, slower L&W rebounded the ball faster.
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: tim2000s on August 03, 2017, 07:11:05 AM
If you have a search around the forum, we have done this before.... http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=16826.0 (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=16826.0) Sadly the photos are on Photobucket...
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: amritpremi on August 03, 2017, 07:45:50 AM
I think a test with tongs can be done in physics lab to measure the frequency. I remember doing similar experiments in school lab where we would hit a tong with a rubber block & we would measure the frequency i.e. vibrations of tong. We can replace the rubber block with the bat (middle). I always feel the ping is related to frequency (that's my theory) as it is related to vibrations (in terms of bounce) & in the end related to sound due to that.
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: springbok45 on August 03, 2017, 09:36:33 AM
We need to borrow some kit from a good golf club fitter, something like a Trackman, accurate measures of swing speed, ball speed, spin etc. Coupled with a Bola and some kind of automated swing could be interesting.
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: InternalTraining on August 03, 2017, 11:38:33 AM
I think a test with tongs can be done in physics lab to measure the frequency. I remember doing similar experiments in school lab where we would hit a tong with a rubber block & we would measure the frequency i.e. vibrations of tong. We can replace the rubber block with the bat (middle). I always feel the ping is related to frequency (that's my theory) as it is related to vibrations (in terms of bounce) & in the end related to sound due to that.

What if the bat is a rocket but is slightly delaminates? Would Your frequency theory work with that?
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: edge on August 03, 2017, 01:55:11 PM
Testing ping by looking at frequency wouldn't work I'm afraid. You could look at that kind of thing to find the middle of a bat in theory, but wouldn't tell you anything whatsoever about how far the ball will go off it.
Title: Re: Measuring Ping/Rebound Of A Bat
Post by: anony on August 03, 2017, 07:53:09 PM
There is inherent dishonesty in how bats are marketed and sold.

I think bats should be re-graded for different conditions and not just "aesthetic" (grain based) grading.

Clubbies who play in slow outfields may requires bats that are easier to play aerial shots with. Fast outfields may not require a lot of ping (case in point not so pingy "pro" bats). Bats for fast/bouncy pitches should be graded as such than slow/low pitch bats. Bat grading should be a combination of the different dimensions which would obviate the need for "ping" measurement being relevant.

As things stand now, knowing "ping" number of a bat would save buyers a lot of headache, heartache, and pocket-ache.

Ping number would just become a sales gimmick to justify selling bats at a premium. I'm shocked a marketing department hasn't crawled over the idea!