Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Willow and Willow Trees.... => Topic started by: mo_town on January 10, 2018, 10:28:56 AM
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Just curious, saw a CJI bat posted on ebay, the description says that it is English willow nurtured in India. Doesnt that technically make it indian willow? Or is it still English willow? :(
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English Willow nurtured in India is sales speak for Kashmir Willow
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Just curious, saw a CJI bat posted on ebay, the description says that it is English willow nurtured in India. Doesnt that technically make it indian willow? Or is it still English willow? :(
I bought that bat 2 years ago for around 40 quid. I didn't know the trick of saying natured in India stuff so fell for it.
I hit massive shots with that bat as it was very light so generate more power and speed but if you time the ball doesn't go far.
For the price you pay it is excellent net bat. I think I will be using mine this season in T20.
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thats quite interesting...so probably a bat one would want to use in anger. I have heard that Kashmir willow is not as sensitive as English willow and can take some heavy slogging. I had read somewhere that Sehwag used to use Kashmir willow. Not sure how true that is though.
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Yes he used a steel hammer to knock them in!
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So it is the same species of tree, just grown in the different conditions of India which lends the willow different qualities?
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Yes he used a steel hammer to knock them in!
I suppose that's the beauty of free kit though.
No matter how effective this is would anyone do it to a bat they'd spent some of their hard earned on?
Actually, I have that Sports Direct GM I plan on using for indoor nets, and I'm sure there's a steel hammer somewhere in the shed...
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So it is the same species of tree, just grown in the different conditions of India which lends the willow different qualities?
Yes, but the conditions have a HUGE effect. Kashmir willow just isn't as strong, due to the growing conditions it is far more brittle than English willow (hence not being suitable for hard ball cricket).
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ive always wondered myself...not that it will change my life.....but if the phrase English willow Is used because the actual trees, baby trees if you like, actually do come from England and are shipped over in mass quantities and then planted very young.
Just something I've wondered over the years :) or if it's just a willow tree at starts its life in India so the phrase 'English' would then be misleading.
you would think I would know the answer to this question being a middling bat nerd that I am
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I suppose that's the beauty of free kit though.
No matter how effective this is would anyone do it to a bat they'd spent some of their hard earned on?
Actually, I have that Sports Direct GM I plan on using for indoor nets, and I'm sure there's a steel hammer somewhere in the shed...
Eric Loxton, I think, used to like to knock bats in with a steel hammer. I seem to remember him adding a "don't try this at home" type comment when revealing this, though.
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Eric Loxton, I think, used to like to knock bats in with a steel hammer. I seem to remember him adding a "don't try this at home" type comment when revealing this, though.
You got me with "don't try this at home"! :D
I'll get some pictures at this weekend of how the bat looks now (used but with no real prep) and keep you updated on my "progress"
Does anyone have any predictions how this will go? ;)
Whatever the outcome, I can't help but think this Sports Direct plank could be the best £40 I've ever spent on something to intentionally destroy...
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You got me with "don't try this at home"! :D
I'll get some pictures at this weekend of how the bat looks now (used but with no real prep) and keep you updated on my "progress"
Does anyone have any predictions how this will go? ;)
Whatever the outcome, I can't help but think this Sports Direct plank could be the best £40 I've ever spent on something to intentionally destroy...
It will go okay but due to Kashmir willow being more brittle there will be lots of surface cracks especially around the edges working from the middle of the bat out towards the edges may reduce them.
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@Seniorplayer the bat was sold as English willow mate. I'm not convinced it is, but if ever there was a plank to abuse with a steel hammer for "science" this is the one! :D
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ive always wondered myself...not that it will change my life.....but if the phrase English willow Is used because the actual trees, baby trees if you like, actually do come from England and are shipped over in mass quantities and then planted very young.
Just something I've wondered over the years :) or if it's just a willow tree at starts its life in India so the phrase 'English' would then be misleading.
you would think I would know the answer to this question being a middling bat nerd that I am
By of calling it English willow nurtured in India confuses many personally
Don't really see how willow grown in the hilly regions of Kashmir can be called English willow nurtured in India as its either English willow or Kashmir. Willow.
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I think English willow nurtured in India and Kashmir willow are two different things; the difference being the actual tree.
I always thought that it was the complete opposite, Kashmir willow is much tougher than English willow i.e. tougher fibres thus making it less pingy. As someone mentioned, you could use to for slogging but it u try and time or place the ball around it wouldnt work as well.
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There was a thread on this last year
http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=41544.msg659921#msg659921 (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=41544.msg659921#msg659921)
Not sure whether @swark did the research he was talking about, maybe he can update us (although doesn't look like he has been on since last August)
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ive always wondered myself...not that it will change my life.....but if the phrase English willow Is used because the actual trees, baby trees if you like, actually do come from England and are shipped over in mass quantities and then planted very young.
Just something I've wondered over the years :) or if it's just a willow tree at starts its life in India so the phrase 'English' would then be misleading.
you would think I would know the answer to this question being a middling bat nerd that I am
Don't quote me on this, but I believe that the process works by using 'Tods', basically short sticks of English willow, that are planted in fertile soil simply as sources of new shoots. As the Tod roots in, shoots sprout regularly and grow quickly around the sides. These shoots are harvested and planted as new Willows. The Tod simply starts sprouting again, and becomes an ongoing source of new shoots. Thus, 'baby trees' don't actually have to be taken from the arms of their weeping mothers on the banks of the rivers of East Anglia, to be transported against their will to a New World.
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Don't quote me on this, but I believe that the process works by using 'Tods', basically short sticks of English willow, that are planted in fertile soil simply as sources of new shoots. As the Tod roots in, shoots sprout regularly and grow quickly around the sides. These shoots are harvested and planted as new Willows. The Tod simply starts sprouting again, and becomes an ongoing source of new shoots. Thus, 'baby trees' don't actually have to be taken from the arms of their weeping mothers on the banks of the rivers of East Anglia, to be transported against their will to a New World.
So, in principle, Kashmir willow, Serbian Willow, Canadian willow etc are all descendants of the great English willow planted in different geographic locations. Climatic difference is what changes their quality. Correct?
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Bang on @mo_town - it's purely down to the climate (so long as it's Salix Alba Caerulea!)
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There was a thread on this last year
[url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=41544.msg659921#msg659921[/url] ([url]http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=41544.msg659921#msg659921[/url])
Not sure whether @swark did the research he was talking about, maybe he can update us (although doesn't look like he has been on since last August)
Still lurking about - I don't tend to log in, so it doesn't appear that I am around, but I am still reading.
The research basically hit a bit of a road block. I did some trials with various timbers, and the preliminary results were fairly clear that players could distinguish between some types of willow, but there was limited differentiation between the grades of English willow (i.e. grade 1 versus grade 4 was hard to tell apart purely on performance).
HOWEVER, there were some major methodological flaws that I couldn't really overcome easily. In particular, I found it nigh on impossible to get bats of the same dimensions. Therefore, there was a fundamental difference between the bats right from the start, and just using one bat of each type naturally means that a 'dud' could greatly skew the results. I also didn't come up with a great way of covering up the blades (to try and hide which bats were which) that didn't also impact on how the bat felt at impact. However, I have just recently seen bat wraps (do a google search for "bat wrap") that may work better.
I really need a bat maker to come on board and make up 10 identical bats from the different types and grades of willow, but understandably, the major players weren't too keen and it is a huge cost / time impost for the smaller guys (and I can't really afford to buy 10 bats that would ultimately be cut in half in the later part of the tests).
So, long story short, the project is still floating about in the back of my mind, but I need to win Lotto first. Very preliminary gut feel - English willow is still the best, but people may be surprised by how good and close to it Australian willow is. English willow nurtured in India - the jury is still out. Kashmir, hmmmm ...