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General Cricket => World Cricket => England => Topic started by: FattusCattus on September 25, 2018, 08:21:13 PM
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Is there a Lions tour this winter? If so, who do we think is in with a shout - there must be a cast of dozens surely?
Clark
Bess
Virdi
Gubbins
Eskinazi
Livingstone
Coad
Porter
Crane
Ryan Patel
Parkinson
Helm
........ and many more? Where do you start?
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Eskinazi has a strong case. Apart from conversion. Last four games he has 4 big 50s, but today's dismissal for 96 is the 4th in a row he's been out between 70 and 100.
Presume you mean Joe Clarke rather than Jordan Clark?
If TRJ returns to fitness he will surely travel to be around the squad, even if he just works up to match sharpness in training rather than playing. I'm middlesex biased as I'm sure people know. Maybe Malan and Ballance to prove a point, plus Sibley has ended the season strongly with 3x100s
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Don't know nowt about bowling but Virdi seems a good shout and Livingstone who has been injured a lot but around d the full squad. Clarke too has been with the first 11 he's a good bet for the future.
At some point or other you also have to get back on the bike/horse. In which case after 2 seasons without significant runs I would put Haseem Hameed on an England tour to see if he can recapture some form, needs a higher level of coaching or just need a harder environment than County cricket-in other words some more firm handing.
I don't believe myself that he won't make a very good international player long term.
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Imo Virdi and Livingstone are long term prospects, definitely worth taking on tours this winter.
Hameed has huge potential, but possibly needs to move from his comfort zone at Lancs to progress, needs a new voice in his ear to tap his undoubted potential.
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Is there a Lions tour this winter? If so, who do we think is in with a shout - there must be a cast of dozens surely?
Clark
Bess
Virdi
Gubbins
Eskinazi
Livingstone
Coad
Porter
Crane
Ryan Patel
Parkinson
Helm
........ and many more? Where do you start?
Lions are in the UAE vs Pakistan in November & December. Playing a 4 day game, 5x 50 over games, 2x T20.
Your right there are loads of candidates. Considering it's UAE you would think Bess, Virdi and Parkinson would go. I am not sure if Crane is fit?
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Crane played with painkillers until Hants went out of t20, then missed rest of season with recurrence of the stress fracture sustained in the Sydney test in the Ashes.
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Will Rhodes has to be in contention from those not mentioned, Henry Brookes from Warks as well if fit. Trying to guess Lions selections is usually difficult though as players go on those trips for a lot of different reasons, it's not just the England second team.
Wonder if they'll give Foakes some time off or want him to get more experience.
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Batsmen - Joe Clarke, Will Rhodes, Chris Dent, Nick Gubbins, Malan as skipper, Livingstone, Brook
Keepers - Foakes, Davies A
Spinners - Virdi, Parkinson, Bess, Qadri
Seamers - Porter, Coad, two Overtons, take Brown for the one day stuff. Maybe Tongue. As an outsider, been really impressed with Ethan Bamber.
Harry Brookes, Matt Fisher, George Garton left out on fitness grounds.
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Batsmen - Joe Clarke, Will Rhodes, Chris Dent, Nick Gubbins, Malan as skipper, Livingstone, Brook
Keepers - Foakes, Davies A
Spinners - Virdi, Parkinson, Bess, Qadri
Seamers - Porter, Coad, two Overtons, take Brown for the one day stuff. Maybe Tongue. As an outsider, been really impressed with Ethan Bamber.
Harry Brookes, Matt Fisher, George Garton left out on fitness grounds.
I think you are there or thereabouts Manor.
I do wonder what they will do with the likes of Vince, Malan and Ballance...... the Senior players that have been discarded but still scoring runs etc.... like you say i can see at least 1 of them going and captaining.
Other names i would through in the mix are:
Dom Sibley - in cracking form for Warwickshire at the moment
Tom Abell - has lead from the front with bat and ball for Somerset
Oli Robinson - has got 70 odd wickets for Sussex this year
The question is what does Ed Smith see the Lions as really because you could through in Mitchell and Hildreth in as well, if Smith genuinely believes anyone can play for England and he wants to see what they are like at the next level etc....
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I would take Vince to captain. I can still him having an international future and he can perhaps consider himself unlucky not to have made the full squad after a very good summer. I don't see the same for either Malan or Balance, would rather take a young batsman over either of these.
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Four-Day squad
Dom Bess (Somerset)
Sam Billings (Kent)
Joe Clarke (Worcestershire)
Nick Gubbins (Middlesex)
Max Holden (Middlesex)
Tom Kohler-Cadmore (Yorkshire)
Liam Livingstone (Lancashire)
Craig Overton (Somerset)
Jamie Overton (Somerset)
Matt Parkinson (Lancashire)
Jamie Porter (Essex)
Jason Roy (Surrey)
Josh Tongue (Worcestershire) *Subject to medical clearance
Amar Virdi (Surrey)
Mark Wood (Durham)
50-over and T20 squad
Dom Bess (Somerset)
Joe Clarke (Worcestershire)
Alex Davies (Lancashire)
Lewis Gregory (Somerset)
Nick Gubbins (Middlesex)
Sam Hain (Warwickshire)
Max Holden (Middlesex)
Tom Kohler-Cadmore (Yorkshire)
Liam Livingstone (Lancashire)
Saqib Mahmood (Lancashire)
Craig Overton (Somerset)
Jamie Overton (Somerset)
Matt Parkinson (Lancashire)
Jamie Porter (Essex)
Mark Wood (Durham)
England Lions schedule
November 18-21: Four-day match v Pakistan A, Abu Dhabi
November 25: First 50-over match v Pakistan A, Dubai
November 27: Second 50-over match v Pakistan A, Dubai
November 29: Third 50-over match v Pakistan A, Abu Dhabi
December 2: Fourth 50-over match v Pakistan A, Abu Dhabi
December 5: Fifth 50-over match v Pakistan A, Dubai
December 7: First T20 v Pakistan A, Abu Dhabi
December 8: Second T20 v Pakistan A, Abu Dhabi
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Pretty pleased with that tbh, a young squad mind you.
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Like the look of that squad. I really rate both Max Holden and Sam Hain, I hope they have bright futures with England.
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Very strong young squad.
It is interesting that no older players have been selected to captain. From what I hear Billings is being touted as skipper.
Also where is Foakes?? I presume Billings or Clarke are keeping.
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What has happened to Hameed? He looked good when he played for England before the injury.
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Right now Hameed is lucky to have a professional contract.
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Right now Hameed is lucky to have a professional contract.
Wow, that is quite some turn-around from looking very comfortable at the highest level. Hope he gets over whatever it is that is causing this.
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Right now Hameed is lucky to have a professional contract.
In the relegation round this week, he was left out in favour of a 21 year old specialist keeper who was making his first class debut.
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England must be very keen on Gubbins - couldn't get in the Middlesex side last year and a mediocre first class season this year but still selected in the Lions both winters! Kohler-Cadmore a surprise in the 4 day squad as well. A shame they couldn't find a spot for Rhodes or Sibley.
Glad to see Roy in there too, given he's coming in at 3 for Surrey now (top work by them batting international opener Dean Elgar at 4!) I wonder if a few Lions runs might persuade him to forgo his annual month of Indian bench-warming for some county champs games to try and get in the side for the Ashes. Or even if he might make the Windies tour.
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England must be very keen on Gubbins - couldn't get in the Middlesex side last year and a mediocre first class season this year but still selected in the Lions both winters! Kohler-Cadmore a surprise in the 4 day squad as well. A shame they couldn't find a spot for Rhodes or Sibley.
Glad to see Roy in there too, given he's coming in at 3 for Surrey now (top work by them batting international opener Dean Elgar at 4!) I wonder if a few Lions runs might persuade him to forgo his annual month of Indian bench-warming for some county champs games to try and get in the side for the Ashes. Or even if he might make the Windies tour.
Wasn’t Gubbons injures last year rather than dropped?
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Right now Hameed is lucky to have a professional contract.
He has certainly had a very poor two seasons there's no argument about that and it's a very difficult balance performing as a pro and backing potential, subjective and difficult to do.
Thankfully thou you will not have anything to do with his professional contract and he starts performing again in 2019 by whatever means is necessary.
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Wasn’t Gubbons injures last year rather than dropped?
May have been injured at some point (don't know tbh) but also definitely dropped.
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What happened to Foakes? He went from a backup keeper to not being selected even for Lions. I thought he had a pretty good season at Surrey.
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What happened to Foakes? He went from a backup keeper to not being selected even for Lions. I thought he had a pretty good season at Surrey.
Wouldn't think Billings is even close to overtaking Foakes should Buttler and Bairstow both break all their fingers, guessing the selectors have decided to give Foakes a bit of time off rather than dragging him round the southern hemisphere all winter as has happened the past few years. That said, if I were taking that point of view I'd have had a look at a young prospect like James Bracey or given Alex Davies the gloves for both legs, rather than Billings. Odd that Billings plays the 4 day leg where he's (probably?) nowhere near selection but misses the white ball stuff where he's a regular England squad member.
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I presume he’ll be with the full side when they’re playing the white ball stuff, same as Roy.
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I presume he’ll be with the full side when they’re playing the white ball stuff, same as Roy.
He didn't make the odi squad though? No date clash either, Wood's in both white ball squads.
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Never checked that, but good, he's bobbins.
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@edge Al Davies hasn't been keeping for Lancs.
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What happened to Foakes? He went from a backup keeper to not being selected even for Lions. I thought he had a pretty good season at Surrey.
Not exactly how it works. Lions is development cricket. Foakes would probably have little to gain from another Lions tour. He is very highly thought of.
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Right now Hameed is lucky to have a professional contract.
Worth a read... https://www.wisden.com/stories/county-cricket/paul-allott-haseeb-hameed-dilemma-lancashire (https://www.wisden.com/stories/county-cricket/paul-allott-haseeb-hameed-dilemma-lancashire)
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Worth a read... https://www.wisden.com/stories/county-cricket/paul-allott-haseeb-hameed-dilemma-lancashire (https://www.wisden.com/stories/county-cricket/paul-allott-haseeb-hameed-dilemma-lancashire)
Yep the BBC picked up on the same interview with Allott
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/45665980 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/cricket/45665980)
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I am not sure that words like that are going to help him get his confidence back
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I am not sure that words like that are going to help him get his confidence back
precisely. Any young player needs time to develop, HH might need a combination of things to change perhaps including looking at himself.
Any club whether its football or cricket takes a gamble hoping players will develop into test batsmen.
no doubt in my mind he will make it long term, he will need the right environment, the day after Lancs were relegated to Div 2 maybe the whole cub is feeling deflated after the season.
one thing ive read with HH is he has been coached thru adulthood by his father, I wonder whether that's the right way once a player reaches County junior level?
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That's right, he seems to rely heavily on his dad which does seem to be something he should change given the level he is now playing at. That said, there have been suggestions that his problems started 2 years ago when the coaches at Lancs tried to change his game by telling him to increase his strike rate and that it has left him struggling to adapt from his natural game. If true, it seems to be an error to me as Cook has shown you can make a perfectly reasonable career as a traditional opener.
As for Allott, he is on rather shaky ground talking about people who have has more opportunities than they deserve
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I agree - Foakes is a proper keeper! IMO he is a far better keeper than Bairstow and Buttler....very unlucky that both JB's are top quality batsmen and pretty decent keepers!
His betting isn't too shabby either! Funny that we are struggling for opening batsmen, struggling for a top quality spin bowler, and desperate to find a consistant 90+ mph accurate bowler. And yet we seem to have loads of keepers! :(
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Where have all the Sam Northeast fans gone?
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I agree - Foakes is a proper keeper! IMO he is a far better keeper than Bairstow and Buttler....very unlucky that both JB's are top quality batsmen and pretty decent keepers!
His betting isn't too shabby either! Funny that we are struggling for opening batsmen, struggling for a top quality spin bowler, and desperate to find a consistant 90+ mph accurate bowler. And yet we seem to have loads of keepers! :(
Quite. YJB, Buttler, Foakes and Billings are in and around the squads, then you have Duckett, Clarke, Davies A, Davies S, Pope...
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Quite. YJB, Buttler, Foakes and Billings are in and around the squads, then you have Duckett, Clarke, Davies A, Davies S, Pope...
Have you ever seen Joe Clarke or Ollie Pope keep wicket? I don't think Ben Duckett does it much anymore, either.
Ben Foakes isn't as good a batsman as Bairstow. England are happy to go with Bairstow's weight of runs and general hard-working competence behind the stumps. I would not say we have an embarrassment of riches in this field.
Ben Cox - who kept for Worcester ahead of Clarke - is highly rated as a gloveman.
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Pope is a super keeper.
Burns can keep too.
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Have you ever seen Joe Clarke or Ollie Pope keep wicket? I don't think Ben Duckett does it much anymore, either.
Ben Foakes isn't as good a batsman as Bairstow. England are happy to go with Bairstow's weight of runs and general hard-working competence behind the stumps. I would not say we have an embarrassment of riches in this field.
Ben Cox - who kept for Worcester ahead of Clarke - is highly rated as a gloveman.
Clarke, no. Pope, yes. The point is more that a country who were short in the area would look at all three of them. And yes, Foakes is worlds behind YJB with the bat - but actually, the question is really whether the difference in keeping skills potentially offsets the difference in runs between Foakes and whoever the fifth best specialist bat is...
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We'll see how good Bairstow's glove work is in Sri Lanka. Standing back isn't the most difficult anyone semi competent can do it, standing up is where a keeper earns his reputation
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We'll see how good Bairstow's glove work is in Sri Lanka. Standing back isn't the most difficult anyone semi competent can do it, standing up is where a keeper earns his reputation
Did a very good job of it in India and Bangladesh last time round and has only got better since then so hopefully he keeps it up.
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Did a very good job of it in India and Bangladesh last time round and has only got better since then so hopefully he keeps it up.
The pitches in India didn't start off as absolute sandpits. Sri Lanka is arguably the toughest place to keep. Raging square turners and 40 odd degrees heat.
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Pope is a super keeper.
Burns can keep too.
My point was they rarely do it. I have seen a sizeable chunk of Rory's career and think I've only him keep once. I'm not sure Pope has even kept in first-class yet.
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Pope kept at Guildford this summer (foakes was with the lions) and against either Essex or Somerset when Foakes was injured.
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Pope kept at Guildford this summer (foakes was with the lions) and against either Essex or Somerset when Foakes was injured.
Okay, thanks. I never bother with Guildford. Shame on me really. Next year!