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Author Topic: England Lions this winter?  (Read 10363 times)

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six and out

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SD

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Re: England Lions this winter?
« Reply #31 on: September 27, 2018, 01:41:03 PM »

I am not sure that words like that are going to help him get his confidence back
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ppccopener

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Re: England Lions this winter?
« Reply #32 on: September 27, 2018, 02:16:10 PM »

I am not sure that words like that are going to help him get his confidence back

precisely. Any young player needs time to develop, HH might need a combination of things to change perhaps including looking at himself.

Any club whether its football or cricket takes a gamble hoping players will develop into test batsmen.

no doubt in my mind he will make it long term, he will need the right environment, the day after Lancs were relegated to Div 2 maybe the whole cub is feeling deflated after the season.

one thing ive  read with HH is he has been coached thru adulthood by his father, I wonder whether that's the right way once a player reaches County junior level?
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SD

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Re: England Lions this winter?
« Reply #33 on: September 27, 2018, 03:44:33 PM »

That's right, he seems to rely heavily on his dad which does seem to be something he should change given the level he is now playing at.  That said, there have been suggestions that his problems started 2 years ago when the coaches at Lancs tried to change his game by telling him to increase his strike rate and that it has left him struggling to adapt from his natural game.  If true, it seems to be an error to me as Cook has shown you can make a perfectly reasonable career as a traditional opener.

As for Allott, he is on rather shaky ground talking about people who have has more opportunities than they deserve
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petehosk

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Re: England Lions this winter?
« Reply #34 on: September 28, 2018, 06:16:45 PM »

I agree - Foakes is a proper keeper! IMO he is a far better keeper than Bairstow and Buttler....very unlucky that both JB's are top quality batsmen and pretty decent keepers!
His betting isn't too shabby either! Funny that we are struggling for opening batsmen, struggling for a top quality spin bowler, and desperate to find a consistant 90+ mph accurate bowler. And yet we seem to have loads of keepers!  :(
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: England Lions this winter?
« Reply #35 on: September 28, 2018, 06:38:13 PM »

Where have all the Sam Northeast fans gone?
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Manormanic

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Re: England Lions this winter?
« Reply #36 on: September 28, 2018, 06:40:32 PM »

I agree - Foakes is a proper keeper! IMO he is a far better keeper than Bairstow and Buttler....very unlucky that both JB's are top quality batsmen and pretty decent keepers!
His betting isn't too shabby either! Funny that we are struggling for opening batsmen, struggling for a top quality spin bowler, and desperate to find a consistant 90+ mph accurate bowler. And yet we seem to have loads of keepers!  :(

Quite. YJB, Buttler, Foakes and Billings are in and around the squads, then you have Duckett, Clarke, Davies A, Davies S, Pope...
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: England Lions this winter?
« Reply #37 on: September 28, 2018, 06:58:38 PM »

Quite. YJB, Buttler, Foakes and Billings are in and around the squads, then you have Duckett, Clarke, Davies A, Davies S, Pope...

Have you ever seen Joe Clarke or Ollie Pope keep wicket? I don't think Ben Duckett does it much anymore, either.

Ben Foakes isn't as good a batsman as Bairstow. England are happy to go with Bairstow's weight of runs and general hard-working competence behind the stumps. I would not say we have an embarrassment of riches in this field.

Ben Cox - who kept for Worcester ahead of Clarke - is highly rated as a gloveman.
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Buzz

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Re: England Lions this winter?
« Reply #38 on: September 28, 2018, 08:03:26 PM »

Pope is a super keeper.
Burns can keep too.
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Manormanic

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Re: England Lions this winter?
« Reply #39 on: September 28, 2018, 09:21:47 PM »

Have you ever seen Joe Clarke or Ollie Pope keep wicket? I don't think Ben Duckett does it much anymore, either.

Ben Foakes isn't as good a batsman as Bairstow. England are happy to go with Bairstow's weight of runs and general hard-working competence behind the stumps. I would not say we have an embarrassment of riches in this field.

Ben Cox - who kept for Worcester ahead of Clarke - is highly rated as a gloveman.

Clarke, no. Pope, yes. The point is more that a country who were short in the area would look at all three of them. And yes, Foakes is worlds behind YJB with the bat - but actually, the question is really whether the difference in keeping skills potentially offsets the difference in runs between Foakes and whoever the fifth best specialist bat is...
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Mister Le Chiffre

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Re: England Lions this winter?
« Reply #40 on: September 28, 2018, 09:38:39 PM »

We'll see how good Bairstow's glove work is in Sri Lanka. Standing back isn't the most difficult anyone semi competent can do it, standing up is where a keeper earns his reputation
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Sam

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Re: England Lions this winter?
« Reply #41 on: September 28, 2018, 09:43:55 PM »

We'll see how good Bairstow's glove work is in Sri Lanka. Standing back isn't the most difficult anyone semi competent can do it, standing up is where a keeper earns his reputation

Did a very good job of it in India and Bangladesh last time round and has only got better since then so hopefully he keeps it up.
« Last Edit: September 28, 2018, 09:46:06 PM by Sam »
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Mister Le Chiffre

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Re: England Lions this winter?
« Reply #42 on: September 28, 2018, 09:47:36 PM »

Did a very good job of it in India and Bangladesh last time round and has only got better since then so hopefully he keeps it up.
The pitches in India didn't start off as absolute sandpits. Sri Lanka is arguably the toughest place to keep. Raging square turners and 40 odd degrees heat.
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: England Lions this winter?
« Reply #43 on: September 29, 2018, 08:34:31 AM »

Pope is a super keeper.
Burns can keep too.

My point was they  rarely do it. I have seen a sizeable chunk of Rory's career and think I've only him keep once. I'm not sure Pope has even kept in first-class yet.
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Buzz

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Re: England Lions this winter?
« Reply #44 on: September 29, 2018, 11:30:15 AM »

Pope kept at Guildford this summer (foakes was with the lions) and against either Essex or Somerset when Foakes was injured.
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