Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: SillyShilly on February 16, 2010, 04:04:03 PM
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Just thought i would ask a quick question about Lavers signature bat - you know, the £900 bat deal
On his site it says
"The Signature bat is the flagship of our range, we only produce five or six of these bats every year as the quality of willow has to be unsurpassed. The Signature Series is the type of bat that a bat maker can scarcely bear to part with - an incredibly good piece of willow turned into the finest bat imaginable"
I was wondering this - what if 20 people on this forum said they all wanted the signature bat package today - do you think that those supposed 5 or 6 clefts he may get a year may turn into twenty clefts rather quickly - i have a hunch that the answer would be yes.
Be interested to hear your thoughts on the exclusivity of this Signature bat, whether it is just a good advertising ploy or that he only genuinely only has 5 or 6 clefts a year???
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He says he has a 'waiting list' but I agree that he may be able to get a few more clefts in.
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I am sure he would muddle through - especially if all 20 people put the cash up front.
Given his reputation as a batmaker, I doubt there will be many who are going to use it, decide it's rubbish and send it back demanding a refund!!!
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james seems like a pretty decent guy, im sure he would be able to produce maybe 8-9, but i doubt he would rip you off. all the signatures i have seen look immense
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Yeah also heard there is a waiting list
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A waiting list says what you need to know, but i will pass your thoughts across to James and see what he says ? i personally don't know anyone who has bought one at that price i don't suppose you would sell more than say 4-5 per year at best although with the reputation and the quality of his bats then he may sell more than that hence the waiting list or it could be as when he gets the right cleft.
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How much was yours? Im sure I remember you having one?
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I'm not questioning his integrity - i have never spoken to him and likely never will - i just question how exclusive this 'exclusive' willow really is - it's not a test any of us could try out but i think he would be a silly batmaker to turn away close to £20,000 for 40 bats.
But by all means Rich, get hold of him and ask him this question i'm sure you know what the answer your going to get is.
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I suppose that does question his integrity if he would do this or not - anyway, it's not the point i was trying to make - i wonder how rare this 'signature' willow is and whether it would be possible to produce more than it says on the site.
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I personally would love to see the signature willow, but for £900 would be scared to use it in any form of practice or match situation.
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There is a current waiting list or at least there was i have enquired about the bat as stated before as a Laver user i would like to think this bat would be the ultimate bat once in a lifetime thing but remember you get a Pb quality bat as well
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I'm not questioning his integrity - i have never spoken to him and likely never will - i just question how exclusive this 'exclusive' willow really is - it's not a test any of us could try out but i think he would be a silly batmaker to turn away close to £20,000 for 40 bats.
But by all means Rich, get hold of him and ask him this question i'm sure you know what the answer your going to get is.
I think its pretty clear you are questioning his integrity or why else start a topic about it, i notice you haven't done this for other makers who do LE bats and make say 200 only etc etc. Pretty obvious that you have a hidden agenda but I've passed your comments across to James and should get a reply soon.
Ive spoken to James personally on a number of occasions and ordered many bats from him and always found him to be very honest and a straightforward guy and a top top bat maker, I've never had any problems or reason to doubt his honesty just like i haven't with the other bat makers here in the UK.
But rather than start an argument about this i will endeavor to get you an answer.
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Richard as i have said there is a reason why James Laver is a big cat in the bat making world bigger than anybody who makes bats on here by far not a argument or attempt just a fact.
This is not a argument this is fact James is a big hitter and a bloody nice bloke even though i kept changing my mind he was top drawer and there a small thing about reputation i suspect he has earned his so can charge what he wants
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it would be interesting getting a master bat maker on here giving his views lots of speculation not enough fact
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Having had bats made by James in Taunton and New Zealand I know that he can make a bloody good bat, but from a business side the Signature is pure marketing and good marketing too. It is a talking point as proved here that encourages thought that if he makes the most expensive bat he must make the best too. The idea of a waiting list will prove to those questioning if anyone else would pay the money that not only will they but they will wait too. The whole package is a step up from the old one at M&H in the 90's and just natural progression of an idea.
If you want to work out the numbers based on the claims then ask how many Men's English clefts are bought each year and then work out the ratio these are available to general buyers of clefts. Then factor in all the claims of Pro's having their bats made by him and the ratio of stunners gets larger.
James seems to be a very nice chap, spoken to him at length about bats etc and he comes across better than he did in Taunton but the addition of the Kiwi accent seems odd!
What he judges to be £900 willow may be my version of firewood and vice versa. Popular opinion by those who have bought bats from him tends to rate him highly and I would add my personal opinion as the same, some flaws but stunning performance nevertheless.
Maybe we should club together to buy one and share it round or raffle it off, maybe Uncle Rich can get us a good price?
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Hi Rich,
Good question. It would be great to have a good advertising ploy like that but even after 11 years of doing the bats we are still on bat number 60 on the Signature bat role. In reality if the 20 bat orders came up I would probably be able to cater for about 7 currently with what I have hidden away but would then have to talk very nicely to J S Wright and Sons to try and get some of the balance but I would say that it would take 6 months and two or three shipments of willow from England to sort out. J S Wright & Sons are really supportive and supply some really awesome willow but they have to be fair in the way they sell and so in order to get more Signature grade willow I would have to buy a lot more volume if I had many more orders than usual. I do have 2 of the 60 still here that I will put on the forum soon as they have been changed orders and are already made up.
I hope that helps answer that one.
Cheers, James.
Above is a reply from James Laver and its in his words not mine, its good to have an opportunity to get a reply direct from the bat maker himself. I will try and post pics of a signature bat so people can see what they are all about.
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Spot on answer i would say...honest and to the point
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The willow he is referring to is SS grade from J S Wrights which is between 5 and 7% of grade 1 as a ratio. When Sareen take 40,000 clefts a year how many would they get and why do they not sell them for £900?
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Talisman with our history i best post this correctly. What flaws have you found with Laver
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Is this a signature?
http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=2654.msg29027#msg29027
Looks a bloody good blade to me and some of the cleanest grains ive seen.
Very honest answer that from James.
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I hate his handle shape, I find the base to have 2 sharp spines that flare out to the side and also the bottom hand is too thin. Did not like them at M&H and still do not like them. On the Laver I kept from the last pair he sent I had to have the bat rehandled as even shaving the spurs off the shape was too small to use. Also sending 2 bats from New Zealand to Somerset loose in a big box with no bubble wrap or anything to stop them getting very dented was annoying but sure this was a one off action.
But I have to say the shape was fantastic, the grains dreamy and the performance stunning, until my current pair of match bats had his very first prototype Harlequin made for me as the best I've ever used. I'm a fan so we better find something else to fall out about ;)
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No argument there big lad i to had problem with the Handle shape at first and the carbo core but after a while just got used to it and now for me the normal shaped handles are the problem.
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The Carbo handle was odd at first, but as you say you get used to it, no feeling from shots and you lost that stand and watch the ball rocket to the rope moment but replaced it with many 2/3 step bursts followed by ohhh, it's beaten the field moments.
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Mike how many bats have you actually made ?
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Loads, not too many I would be proud to show on the forum, I stick to selling willow and bats as owning the stuff before it gets made seems to be a good position to be in, why?
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i gonna go off topic a moment here and say and this will sound mad, but i usually know what quality bat i am going to get when i get them off the most important bit of any cricket equipment to me is how the top hat sits on pads, the feel of pads is more important to me because i know what bats iam getting and the weight and quality
so pads to me are more important if they feel the part i usually play the part
might sound strange but i know what weight and how good my bats are before i get them and i always thought if a bat has a middle i will find it but if i wear somebody elses pads i can tell you i just feel wrong so pads to me are more important
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Loads, not too many I would be proud to show on the forum, I stick to selling willow and bats as owning the stuff before it gets made seems to be a good position to be in, why?
Seems to me like your making lots of claims lately and willing to post absolutely anything and everything to sell kit and its more than a little annoying. You also continuously question the skills of class bat makers who have been in business for many many years and with a first class reputation across the industry which unfortunately you wont ever achieve but hey keep trying and prove me wrong and i will be the first to congratulate you.
This is not aimed at causing an argument and i wont continuously post to get it to one so if you wish to debate this further with me please drop me an email id be more than happy to discuss.
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Seems a fair call rich
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Not a problem Rich, I'm a fully paid up advertiser on the forum so Leo changed my title last night to reflect this even though I have been doing it since last year. I'll stand one of my bats against any other, I have no problem with that. When you get into the industry deeper than the forum you will find out all sorts of things that cannot be printed here, some good, some bad.
I'll give you a ring if that's OK?
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KK give me a call by all means and I've been in the industry a lot deeper than just a forum and yes I've picked up lots and most things i would dream of talking about and possibly including interesting facts about some people and companies who regularly post on various forums ? that's not actually aimed at you just to say we all pick up things.
No problems with you trying to sell kit as I've had many of successful trades with you so I've no probs with that only your comments belittling most other companies kit is what i refer to. But as you said lets talk if you still have my bat phone number lol.
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Yes its amazing what you find out about certain people.
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Rich - genuinely, thanks for getting hold of James and thanks to James for responding - interesting to hear how many of his signature bats have been sold (with most of them probably belonging to forum members), less than i expected.
I didnt intend for this thread to be malicious, is was out of curiousity over the level of willow that he deems worthy to warrant the 'signature' status, would be interesting if he could tell you rich what he looks for in particular (im guessing it's the equivalent of what most bat-makers would reserve for their pro's with regard to density and grains). He has marketed it well and for this very reason it is often held up as the holy grail of bats, I certainly wouldnt say no to one.
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Rich - genuinely, thanks for getting hold of James and thanks to James for responding - interesting to hear how many of his signature bats have been sold (with most of them probably belonging to forum members), less than i expected.
I didnt intend for this thread to be malicious, is was out of curiosity over the level of willow that he deems worthy to warrant the 'signature' status, would be interesting if he could tell you rich what he looks for in particular (im guessing it's the equivalent of what most bat-makers would reserve for their pro's with regard to density and grains). He has marketed it well and for this very reason it is often held up as the holy grail of bats, I certainly wouldnt say no to one.
Absolutely no problems at all bud, i hold James in very very high regard but apart from that I'm in no way connected to Laver & Wood apart from buying many bats for both me and my customers back in the day that's it. Obviously I've spoken to him on several occasions and find him to be absolutely straight and honorable and his bats well i don't need to say much about them.
Perhaps i picked up your intentions wrong but rather than argue i thought i would clear this up as i new James would reply if i asked a question and to be fair its good of him to do so and I'm more than willing to ask a bit more if anyone needs any info or they could email him direct.
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Yes its amazing what you find out about certain people.
Who?
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anybody interested James is selling a Reserve at fastly reduced prices if you go to his forum shop.
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The willow he is referring to is SS grade from J S Wrights which is between 5 and 7% of grade 1 as a ratio. When Sareen take 40,000 clefts a year how many would they get and why do they not sell them for £900?
Only a tiny percentage of that 40,000 are G1 though.
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He has and he said its an absolute one off $900 i think he said in his email however I've not been and looked but he said he would add it so i will take a look.
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yeah rich that and the 20/20 monster i like the idea of having my bat extra dried
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and sorry forgot about the 3lb 8oz monster bat got to have some fair
H man (oh no not again) strength to weild that trunck
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The 20/20 bat looks weird not sure I'm keen on that but would like to pick one up and see what its like.
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not bad looking bats though for surplus stock and that special laver finish i have found nodoby who can finish a bat like him
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anybody interested James is selling a Reserve at fastly reduced prices if you go to his forum shop.
Just saw it and was initially gutted as I have placed an order for a Reserve at the normal price but then saw the weight. And in addition I have asked for some minor adjustments to the shape. So wouldn't work for me. But if that bat fits to someone's exact needs, its a great bargain!
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http://www.laverwood.co.nz/www/images/forumshop/091a.jpg
http://www.laverwood.co.nz/www/images/forumshop/091b.jpg
http://www.laverwood.co.nz/www/images/forumshop/091c.jpg
This was the one i was on about with regards to weird shape etc ? would like to see how it picked up etc.
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look at the bat 2nd left from the shown bat looks a stunner
my fingers are itching for the £950 pound pair
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Thats a very peculiar shape! Almost like its been done by machine......also a very expensive 4 grainer!
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dont worry James doesn't just grade on grains
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This may sound a silly question (and slightly off topic) but at L&W is there a "Wood", or is it just Laver? As in M&H being millichamp and Hall. Just wondered is all! :-)
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Maybe Mr. Wood was the minor shareholder?
"James moved to NZ in 1998 with a view to set up a bat making company and after establishing himself here in New Zealand as a bat maker set up the company Laver & Wood Ltd in 1998. He bought out a minority shareholder in 2004, and Laver & Wood is now 100% owned by James and his family. "
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i think wood was a old business partner
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returning to this just briefly... http://www.laverwood.co.nz/www/images/forumshop/091b.jpg
was this a custome bat for Captain Caveman? it look brilliant!
http://mrgranito.files.wordpress.com/2009/09/captain-caveman1.jpg
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it does resemble a beating stick...or a dangerous weapon!
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Best not let FatussCatuss see it then as I'm sure he could do some damage with it.
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ah, thanks for that!
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after everything said and done about James there is no doubting one thing
he truly is a master bat maker who sells bats that are right at the very top end of the bat market and i ask anybody who got a bats from him have they been disappointed at any point in the buying process,from picking the cleft to the finished article.
if there is better service for getting a better bat making service in the world than i have not meet them yet.
His price reflect the quality service he provides with the experience and quality he delivers through years of hard work.
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What makes James Laver's bats better and more expensive than Julian Millichamp's though?
I'd be interested to hear your thoughts.
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Both Julian Millichamp and Mary Graham offer a great service and great products as does James Laver and i guess they feel there products are worth the money they charge. Perhaps one maker may price his work higher than another but i suppose only they could answer that as they set the prices.
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The top end millichamp is more expensive than a Laver
only the very best clefts for the reserve and the signature cost more a service millichamp does not offer
the screaming cat cost around £50 more than the top end laver pb/firefly
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I have to say i that i have a good friend who has played for Enland and Sommerset and has Known Big Jim Laver as he calls him since he first started making bats at Sommerset and he tells me Jims reputation is impeccable and he still makes a lot of bats for international players, and i personally have corresponded with him over the odd bat or two and unlike most bat manufacturers he will always try and help any body out.