Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: Kulli on October 24, 2018, 08:49:43 AM
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It was touched upon briefly in another thread, so in an effort to avoid derailing discussions about GM's snazzy new range, I thought I'd start a dedicated thread.
Some points for discussion.
Bat makers gradings, how many do it on looks/density and how many on performance. I guess most go on a mixture, but at the end of the day, they're businesses looking to maximise profits.
Do we believe that bats with straighter (and more) grains perform better in general, or do most of us buy high-quality bats because we like the way they look/make us feel?
Someone mentioned bats being bumped up and down grades at the final batmaker check. It's noticeable here that people will go wild over the idea of a 12-grain blemish free bat at a mid to low level grade, but as pointed out, does that really mean it's a duffer, and what we should be after is the high graded bats that look pig ugly?
Is it in bat makers interests to find a way to measure a bats performance empirically. Or would that be a waste of time anyway because performance out of the packet does not give an indication of performance once played in?
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When one company has an unhealthy near-monopoly over the supply of willow to the market, and that company sets the price point for each piece of willow based on its aesthetic appearance, the commercial reality is that the manufacturer is going to struggle to downgrade a finished bat of they purchased the cleft as a high grade. I guess that it is only those manufactures who can control their own willow supply who can afford to look more closely at performance.
Add to that the difficulty in objectively quantifying and assessing performance and the nature of a cricket bat that needs playing in to reach its maximum performance.
I assume like most on hereq, i have had expensive, beautiful looking bats which have underwhelmed in their performance and some lower grade bata that have been great performers. The more I have played, the more I feel it is a lottery in terms of performance
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Interesting a lottery, says it all .
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When one company has an unhealthy near-monopoly over the supply of willow to the market, and that company sets the price point for each piece of willow based on its aesthetic appearance, the commercial reality is that the manufacturer is going to struggle to downgrade a finished bat of they purchased the cleft as a high grade. I guess that it is only those manufactures who can control their own willow supply who can afford to look more closely at performance.
Add to that the difficulty in objectively quantifying and assessing performance and the nature of a cricket bat that needs playing in to reach its maximum performance.
I assume like most on hereq, i have had expensive, beautiful looking bats which have underwhelmed in their performance and some lower grade bata that have been great performers. The more I have played, the more I feel it is a lottery in terms of performance
Yeah. Agree. I've owned 20 or so bats costing between £30 and £250. The best bat I ever owned cost me £80 (a GM 808), the one with the best ping cost me £50.
More expensive bats look prettier, last at least a season, and most of them play at least reasonably well, whereas the cheaper bats (under £100) are a real lottery. Some break almost immediately, other play like a 2x4, others can be great value.
My suspicion is that grading is done 90% by looks, with a few companies who claim to "grade on performance" maybe moving a few bats up and down grades based on what they sound like when you bounce a ball on them. You can't really grade on performance, because its impossible to predict how a bat will perform until you fully knock it in and then get it out into the middle.
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To be fair to JS Wright's, they do say lower grade willow is equally likely to perform.
Or maybe this is just what they have to shift most of?
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70 USD for an English Willow Grade 1 Cleft is not expensive.
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There is no doubt in my mind that the performance of a bat
Can only be told when out in an open net where you can see how far the ball travels
No amount of ball bounces really tells on a bat .
You can sometimes tell how much a hammer or a heavy bat knocking in hammer bounces off with a single strike and keeps bouncing as a result
Hope that makes sense
Definite con a bat is graded on performance
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To be fair to JS Wright's, they do say lower grade willow is equally likely to perform.
Or maybe this is just what they have to shift most of?
True they make no mention of better performance in terms of cosmetics.
Since all the grades go through the same press at a manufacturer, all you can go on is the cosmetics and the bat mallet test at that moment in time. As we all know after knocking in and playing, bats open up at their own time.
Also again you hear about some pros being ultra picky, others not being bothered. I remember the Younis Khan bat pics someone pout up recently. The grains didn't look even and weren't ruler straight, yet it seemed to be favourite of his as it was well used and repaired.
People on this forum are an exception to the average weekend cricketer as we are all proper bat geeks. I know of many good players that score runs week in week out, that have just popped into local cricket store and bought from the big brands, and may be grade 2s or lower in some cases. Oh and none of them are scrutinising their bats like the people on here, 1 bat until it breaks.
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Are you saying the prices between grade 1 plus Vs grade 2 are quite similar from j s Wright ? Just trying to interpret above
What is the differential in price
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GM seem to take delivery in trunks and split them themselves? Is this common?
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GM seem to take delivery in trunks and split them themselves? Is this common?
Presume they also have their own willow supply.
EDIT - or possibly as they want to control all of the drying process themselves.
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Yeah that interesting GM take delivery in trees .
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It's common practice among volume Asian buyers to take the whole scalped tree rather than clefts which allows them to grade their own willow.
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If you buy part made bats the cost between G1 - G3 is very small. G1 £100 G2 £90 G3 £75
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To be fair to JS Wright's, they do say lower grade willow is equally likely to perform.
Or maybe this is just what they have to shift most of?
From what I understand, you can't buy from them top grades only so you are required to take the low end stuff as well. Of course the manufacturers have a vested interest on talking up low grade stuff as they do have to shift it
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To be fair to JS Wright's, they do say lower grade willow is equally likely to perform.
Or maybe this is just what they have to shift most of?
Much more lower grades to shift than top grade that's why batmakers have to purchase in ratios
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Makes sense and I guess that's where the skill.of the batmaker comes in in terms of pressing the lower grades to perform or making any form of food to perform better than it should .
I will probably never buy a grade 1 plus ever again
There's no point . A lighter weight butterfly is unebelivable performer
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From what I understand, you can't buy from them top grades only so you are required to take the low end stuff as well. Of course the manufacturers have a vested interest on talking up low grade stuff as they do have to shift it
But they don't? They talk up the higher grades - which many of us believe are no more likely to perform.
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Here is my view on grading. Personally I refuse to pay the price for a G1 bat as I honestly do not believe that grade or cost equals a better performing bat nor indeed does it mean a better looking bay grains wise or size density in a lot of instances.
This is a selection of some of my bats from GM and GN & Kook. All of these in my opinion could be classed as G1 except the Zelos with the hard bar in the playing area. These range from G2 in the GM’s all being sig grades or 606 in Zelos case to G5 in the case of the Kook.
They all weigh under 2.10 and all have at least 36mm edges with little concaving the Kook ghost being a full shape as well.
Cost wise all under £130. All perform as well as any bat I’ve owned now that they are fully match ready. I guess the only side some may argue is they maybe take an extra few net sessions to reach fully opened up status over some more expensive bats but that’s all in the pressing of the bat maker
The most expensive purchase I have made in the last 3 years is yet to arrive but is still under the £200 mark and is up there with any G1 on looks.
(https://i.postimg.cc/SNFv7XcJ/F1-D302-E1-064-F-404-F-AF9-B-E73-EC1-AEE532.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/HjzzTkZg)
(https://i.postimg.cc/Gtt947jh/2-B89-A3-EE-6859-41-A4-A02-D-CA9-D516482-F8.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/ctqdjcjV)
(https://i.postimg.cc/bwtqsx2m/BAEDCEEE-8-BA9-4-BC4-95-C4-2819-C667-A861.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/hXckY7sm)
(https://i.postimg.cc/J76fgjVj/3-D4375-F8-3889-4696-8333-FF6193-FE95-E9.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/pyjc5hdd)
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I believe the grading/pricing system of the clefts from the supplier is same as we have for all other raw material, where rarity dictates the desirability and hence the prices.
Which is quite normal in term of market sense. All these low-density, multi ruler straight gain with all sapwood are rare raw material hence the high price.
Grading a bat on performance is kind a marketing gimmick to lure people to by lower priced end-product at a bloated price to maximize their profit. There is no measure of performance and no two clefts will perform the same. But at the same time tags such as performance grade, player's/pro's grade draws more attention then a bat with no such tag.
If someone has no price restriction then they should buy whatever is the best in the market and for someone like me I look for value for money.
People can argue that Uk made bats are better than Asian made bats but if you really think there is not much science in making a good bat not saying its not a skilled job but skill are gained by experience and anyone can gain experience.
I would say people should look for cost to Selling price difference regardless the grade before making a decision. And if there is same probability of low priced/grade bat be equally good as as high priced/grade bat.
Then I guess we know who is a winner.
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I'm sorry @SOULMAN1012 Chris - did you say that Ghost was a G5?
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I'm sorry @SOULMAN1012 Chris - did you say that Ghost was a G5?
Yep it’s a Ghost 250 which is G5 on Kook grading
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I'm sorry @SOULMAN1012 Chris - did you say that Ghost was a G5?
A 250 I guess, have seen a few that could easily pass for G1/G2.
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A 250 I guess, have seen a few that could easily pass for G1/G2.
Exactly and in my opinion the reason why Grade is irrelevant really. The GM Chrome is also a 404 not a signature grade so G4 in GM grading.
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I have seen a kook ghost 250 which is around 100 quid I think
And made by an Indian manufacturer I forget who go absolutely miles
It looked exactly like that in the colour of the bat
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The two bats I used this season were both G3, neither of them are in the slightest bit good looking but it doesn't stop them going like stink. Has just confirmed my beliefs in buying good lower grades, several g1s being kept on the shelf at home because of how good the low grade bats have been.
That's not to say all low grade bats are great of course, the money you pay for higher grade bats is a bit of a safety net for those who can't hunt out low grade winners. Specifically in the case of GM I've seen some rubbish 606s, but 808s have always been top notch. Not sure on the signatures but seems they sit at a good sweet spot to judge by looks and response on here.
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There’s so many different threads going on about so many subjects that are linked so...
Manufacture grading makes no odds to me. I’d always look for a combo of aesthetic & performance.
We all pay what we think is value for a combo of performance, stickers, willow, reputation & brand.
My match bats are GM Signature grades and look good and perform.
There’s a bloke a bit like us deciding what grade stickers go on which bats. Probably with a ball and a mallet but definitely has less bats at home than the average forum member
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There's very little difference in price between clefts of different grades
I wouldn't entirely agree with that honestly. All clefts are inexpensive compared to the bats they become, but a G1 cleft is still double the price of a G3, for example.
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Would it be rude to find out much a cleft cost
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Would it be rude to find out much a cleft cost
Quoting user Tom in 2011:
"G1 cleft - �39.45
G2 - �29.10
Inclusive of fumigation and the like.
Expect to pay �80 for a completed G1 bat and �65 for G2"
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Interesting so with the prices increase since 2011can we say 80 for grade 1 now and perhaps 65 for grade 2
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I believe that GN and Kippax have their own private willow source and are not dependent on JS Wright. GN do not have separate grade levels (at least they do not publish it). GM does not allow handpicking of their bats as well (unless you are sponsored by them, I guess). In my experience, the lower grade bats are often pressed a little differently so that they take longer to open up creating the need or craving for more expensive models, which open up faster. Capitalism-- you can run but you cannot hide, much like a Malcolm Marshall bouncer.
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Good shout the lower models have more moisture as well hence taking more time
The video suggests that or the guy commenting
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Interesting so with the prices increase since 2011can we say 80 for grade 1 now and perhaps 65 for grade 2
I don't know exact figures for clefts but they're a good chunk less than that or last time I bought a G1 cleft I absolutely robbed the supplier.
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GM does not allow handpicking of their bats as well (unless you are sponsored by them, I guess).
They seem too..
https://m.facebook.com/KilbirnieSports/photos/a.312910962181540/1239382869534340/?type=3&source=54&ref=page_internal
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Grade 1 £66.80 CIF with delivery in early 2019.
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They seem too..
https://m.facebook.com/KilbirnieSports/photos/a.312910962181540/1239382869534340/?type=3&source=54&ref=page_internal
That’s GM NZ - GM UK don’t allow it
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That’s GM NZ - GM UK don’t allow it
Who'll be the first Uk store to make the trip over ;)
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Although this was previously disputed, I don't think there is any doubt that the big brands press lower grades differently. They also put cheaper handles in.
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Although this was previously disputed, I don't think there is any doubt that the big brands press lower grades differently. They also put cheaper handles in.
Most likely due to the source of cane being used by the larger brands. Not a major issue once the description is in plain view for all bat buyers.
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Gunn and Moore’s latest tweet makes it pretty clear as to their grading
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Gunn and Moore’s latest tweet makes it pretty clear as to their grading
That they grade on looks?
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Here is the tweet... I think the same photo/table is in this year's brochure.
https://twitter.com/GMCricket/status/1055394090290962432?s=19
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That they grade on looks?
Not the process but what the bats should look like
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Not the process but what the bats should look like
This is boring. None of us are really any the wiser. How can they know exactly what a bat will look like if they grade on 'assessment of performance'?
Enough. Waste of time.
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This is boring. None of us are really any the wiser. How can they know exactly what a bat will look like if they grade on 'assessment of performance'?
Enough. Waste of time.
Or you’ve missed the point.... there are clearly more than one grade one in there so it’s safe to assume (according to gm methods) that an ole will put perform a signature le
Now we all know it’s doen to the pressing but that would explain things
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(https://i.imgur.com/us20c8w.png)
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So why do so many pros - including ones sponsored by GM - use bats that look exactly like their picture of an 808?
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So why do so many pros - including ones sponsored by GM - use bats that look exactly like their picture of an 808?
Personal preference, and happier to use anything that performs when they're not pay ing a premium for it.
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So Original L.E is individually tested for performance - meaning they guarantee performance?
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(https://i.imgur.com/us20c8w.png)
I have to admit, if you showed me those 9 bats out of context and asked me to order them in order of quality of willow, I'd get them totally and utterly wrong. Probably in almost the exact wrong order if anything.
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interesting that handle quality is different as well
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Ok so I queried this months ago about handles
As I saw there was a difference in the handle quality from 808 to 909
Had confirmation from retailer there was no difference as they said they phoned GM
Now that's what I was told . Be keen to know of still the case this was earlier this year
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GM 2017
(https://i.imgur.com/X7KkK7e.jpg)
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Rather than focusing on GM, what's everyone's thoughts with other brands that only offer a single grade? Such as Kippax for example?
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With your own extensive willow supply you can choose the best for your own bats and flog the rest to India
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Is that what kippax do awesome
At least we get the good stuff
I like kippax
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Rather than focusing on GM, what's everyone's thoughts with other brands that only offer a single grade? Such as Kippax for example?
It's certainly an interesting approach, and the fact that with it they presumably state that they all perform equally, but people will always want the prettier ones if they get to pick themselves, so I don't know how the shift lower grade clefts other than by selling them to other makers.
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Rather than focusing on GM, what's everyone's thoughts with other brands that only offer a single grade? Such as Kippax for example?
It show's clear confidence in what they do, as all their bats are "players grade" rather than "grade 1", "grade 2" etc.
However, if you bought a £300 bat blind and it arrived with 5 grains and a load of blemishes on the face, or a butterfly stain would you feel like it was good value?
I can't help but feel "grading on performance" is a way of charging a premium for lower grade willow.
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I personally think GM have got a lot to hide. They are clearly making the case that clean willow performs better when most of us, and many very capable batmakers, believe that not to be true.
Even Soulman, who currently seems to be GMs biggest fan, champions the cause of their lower end bats.
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With your own extensive willow supply you can choose the best for your own bats and flog the rest to India
Do you honestly believe that... the Indian market is probably a hell of a lot more picky than we are when it comes to grading. The fact companies over here can even get away with selling "performance" graded willow says enough.
Whilst everyone has their own opinion (this thread clearly shows that!), until an industry standard for willow grading comes into play then grading is simply a way of marketing a product.
Due to not making bats personally the process is a lot simpler for me. I simply trust my batmaker when it comes to grading and leave it with them - if I order a "Grade X" bat then whatever arrives is "Grade X".
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I am really glad it's kicking off about the fact retailers are grading
On performance . So what happens when you pay full wack high end price and the bats a dud
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I personally think GM have got a lot to hide. They are clearly making the case that clean willow performs better when most of us, and many very capable batmakers, believe that not to be true.
Even Soulman, who currently seems to be GMs biggest fan, champions the cause of their lower end bats.
On the flip side though, if there are 2 bats of the same model, nearly all of us would choose the prettier one. You see it here all the time.
While there is obviously an argument for them being better performance wise, I think a lot of it is supply and demand. People want pretty bats with pretty stickers.
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So what happens when you pay full wack high end price and the bats a dud
You become a philosopher.
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Due to not making bats personally the process is a lot simpler for me. I simply trust my batmaker when it comes to grading and leave it with them - if I order a "Grade X" bat then whatever arrives is "Grade X".
But, if memory serves, you have a grade 2 or 3 match bat yourself?
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On the flip side though, if there's 2 bats of the same model, nearly all of us would choose the prettier one. You see it here all the time.
Not if there's a couple of hundred quids difference in price?
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You become a philosopher.
Or a CBF seller?
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I personally think GM have got a lot to hide. They are clearly making the case that clean willow performs better when most of us, and many very capable batmakers, believe that not to be true.
Do they? Where? The only place performance is mentioned in any way in their grading chart is that OLE's are tested 'to ensure 5 star performance' - 5 star being OLE-808. So the only case they're making there is that an OLE is tested to make sure it's better than a 606. What's the problem with that?
I quite like what Kippax do to be honest, but they charge more money than I'm prepared to pay for a cricket bat. Difficult for brands not in their particular position to follow suit too.
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Not if there's a couple of hundred quids difference in price?
I meant if for example there are Two GM Noir Signatures available, nearly everyone on here would go for the prettier one.
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So the only case they're making there is that an OLE is tested to make sure it's better than a 606. What's the problem with that?
How can you make that case unless you test all grades for performance?
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On the flip side though, if there are 2 bats of the same model, nearly all of us would choose the prettier one. You see it here all the time.
While there is obviously an argument for them being better performance wise, I think a lot of it is supply and demand. People want pretty bats with pretty stickers.
If all you can go on is looks, then all you can go on is looks.
If you actually had the chance to test the bats, I doubt many people would go for the cleaner looking bat that didn't play so nicely ahead of a blemished bat that went like a rifle.
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I am really glad it's kicking off about the fact retailers are grading
On performance . So what happens when you pay full wack high end price and the bats a dud
You send it back with a nice letter.
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If all you can go on is looks, then all you can go on is looks.
If you actually had the chance to test the bats, I doubt many people would go for the cleaner looking bat that didn't play so nicely ahead of a blemished bat that went like a rifle.
But is rebound in the shop an indicator of rebound once it's played in for half a season?
It's also not easy to compare the performance of bats in a shop even if they do let you loose with a hammer/ball. Unless one is an absolute dud then I struggle.
I think realistically all a manufacturer can do is grade on looks (which is I believe generally a passable indicator of performance) and then adjust a few down the way if they're real stinkers.
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If all you can go on is looks, then all you can go on is looks.
If you actually had the chance to test the bats, I doubt many people would go for the cleaner looking bat that didn't play so nicely ahead of a blemished bat that went like a rifle.
Generally though retailers don't stock blemished bats on there shelves as they have no appeal to the general bat buying public.
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The only place performance is mentioned...
It was mentioned when I asked the MD the question.
People pay big money for high-end because they belive that will get them a superior cricket bat; not a superior looking cricket bat.
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Generally though retailers don't stock blemished bats on there shelves as they have no appeal to the general bat buying public.
Why butterfly is such good value?
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looks (which is I believe generally a passable indicator of performance
Specifically, what features do you think indicate good performance?
and by good performance do you mean good immediate ping or good longevity, as I think we all agree there is a payoff to be had based on the water content of the cleft.
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Why butterfly is such good value?
Indeed, it's far from limited to cricket bats. Humans will choose the prettier of pretty much anything (unless we're receiving some sort of information we trust that the ugly is better) just look at the number of vegetables thrown away because they're superficially not good enough.
Specifically, what features do you think indicate good performance?
and by good performance do you mean good immediate ping or good longevity, as I think we all agree there is a payoff to be had based on the water content of the cleft.
I've never been too fussed by the number of grains, but have always looked for evenly spaces grains that are as similar as possible on the back as the front.
I've heard a few batmakers who's opinion I value saying grains running straight through the whole cleft (face to rear) is a good indicator of performance/strength, though there is maybe a bit of confirmation bias in that.
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Out of interest
High price top end for a cricket bat
How does moisture effect rebound
Fast 70mph plus income call and you feel the willow abosrb the impact as opposed to rebounds it as much as it should
Does that indicate more mositure in the willow ?
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Out of interest
High price top end for a cricket bat
How does moisture effect rebound
Fast 70mph plus income call and you feel the willow abosrb the impact as opposed to rebounds it as much as it should
Does that indicate more mositure in the willow ?
Bats that have a lower water content are harder and brittler, meaning they absorb less energy, so the ball pings off harder, but are also far more likely to split.
The optimum water content for a professional who gets his bats for free and has 5-6 of them in his bag is lower than for an amateur who has a bat he wants to last for a few seasons at least.
Personally I'd rather have a bat with slightly less ping that lasts for 5 years.
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Agree but there has to an acceptable level .
I think the whole cricket bat selling on performance and high prices and grades is a total con
I have learnt a lot on here . My fav brand is an Indian supplied
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But, if memory serves, you have a grade 2 or 3 match bat yourself?
Your memory is correct, yet I’m failing to see the point you’re trying to make?
I ordered a G3 for a Facebook competition. It arrived. The pick up and balance felt perfect. Subsequently ordered another G3 for Facebook and kept the original to become my match bat. If anything it proves that performance grading is utter (No Swearing Please), I had over 100 bats pass through my hands last year and it’s a G3 I chose.
Putting that to one side...
I’ll say it once more as a general comment as this thread is total tripe. All bats will perform when pressed AND knocked in correctly. If your bat is truly not performing then either A. You haven’t prepared it right or B. Your ability probably means you’re struggling to find the middle (and I suspect B is the issue in most cases - if you’re telling me Ali Cook couldn’t get a Saturday league ton with your “plank” then you’re wrong.)
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Buy within your means and what makes you happy!
Most I've spent on a bat is £245.00 for a bat. It's top end what I would pay. I accept that there's massive value to be had elsewhere at lower prices.
We are all human and like nice and shiny things! :D
I love the passion here, sometimes I forget that all of you are not full time internationals! ;)
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I think it's quite simple - go to someone like Hell 4 Leather/Salix (those two are local to me) tell them your budget and they will pick out a load of bats for you, whack them with a mallet and tell you which one's ping the best and then it's down to you as to what feels the best in your hands. They aren't going to sell you a dud - you'll never use them if they do.
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I personally think GM have got a lot to hide. They are clearly making the case that clean willow performs better when most of us, and many very capable batmakers, believe that not to be true.
Even Soulman, who currently seems to be GMs biggest fan, champions the cause of their lower end bats.
I’m a champion of lower end bats whenand only when it’s from a trust worthy source whom I know and trust to press a bat well, after many years playing the game I personally score as many runs and Tons now with G2 or G3 bats as I did when I joined this forum and used to only buy G1 or top end. I know play higher level due to seasons of promotions and that’s what I champion, it’s just my belief. Add in I know have a bigger mortgage, 2nd child and a family as opposed to have all free income to myself 6/7 years ago
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Here is what I have learned over the years, some through here and some through friends and contacts in the bat making industry!!
1 - Cost of the clefts (G1-G4 to Vellum) are pretty close to each other, when you look at overall cost of materials for the product, from the suppliers. We all know volume discounts exist so more you buy the cheaper they are.
2 - Cost to manufacture a bat is/should be a constant (including wasted materials etc.), assuming consistent manufacturing process and overheads, for each manufacturer. I.e. some makers' cost is X per bat and others is Y. What I am trying to say is if I am good/consistent at making bats and it costs me $60 to make a bat, it would $60 for G1 and $60 for G2 and so on for all grades + raw material cost.
3 - Selling price of a bat is not relative to the cost of raw materials + manufacturing cost+profit. So if it cost you $100 to make a G4 bat and $120 to make a G1 and you sell G4 for $200 you are not going to sell G1 for $220/240 i.e. making the same profit amount or margins points. Reasoning for this? you can put a label on it...
What is the difference then? well i don't believe people when they say all pressing is the same or optimal for each cleft, lower grades fetch less money and generally, in asia, people with lower incomes buy these bats and expect them to last long so the pressing is hard, hence the performance difference...people with bigger budgets and less care for money will buy higher end bats for looks and performance so the makers can actually press the bat properly.
Grading only comes into play of a bat performing when there are a lot of knots in the willow other than that i think its simply cosmetic. If a batmaker was worth his/her salt and had a freedom to make a good bat with good performance without the fear of an ignorant customer, complaining about damage due to use or longevity of the bat, they could make and press a bat in any grade that performed well. Only exception would be natural variance in the raw material where no matter how much attention you paid to the wood in making and pressing the bat some just would never be as good as others.
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How can you make that case unless you test all grades for performance?
On the face of it, that's a fair comment.
But GM could equally say that their other grades perform too.
It's just that the OLEs are 'guaranteed 5-star performance.
Now the real question here I think is how do you define '5-star performance'?
With respect to GM, who know a thing or two about willow, if there's no scientific scale or definition of performance, it's just marketing fluff.
One for our resident GM maestro @Edward Lowy to throw some light onto, I think.
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But GM could equally say that their other grades perform
One for our resident GM maestro @Edward Lowy to throw some light onto, I think.
Erm, he clearly said they graded on their assessment of performance?
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Erm, he clearly said they graded on their assessment of performance?
What, he said they test all of their bats and grade them on performance?
Can you point us to where he said that? Because it goes against their published grading system. Which is based on looks.
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(https://i.postimg.cc/6pXnzV95/FB-IMG-1540489400320.jpg)
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What, he said they test all of their bats and grade them on performance?
Can you point us to where he said that? Because it goes against their published grading system. Which is based on looks.
Page 4 of GM 2019 thread. I ask the question, he responds.
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So he does. They grade them on 'their assessment of performance'.
Now if GM's assessment of performance is based on looks, then that's fine.
If it isn't, then why the discrepancy between what Edward says (graded on performance) and what their catalogue shows (graded on looks)?
It's either one or the other, isn't it? Unless GM believe the better looking the bat, the better the performance? Which we generally all believe is just not the case.
I'm beginning to think it's all a bit smoke and mirrors, frankly. :(
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Can someone get their hands on this? I was struggling with my 20 grain Pro bat last few games, and this might just be the thing to help me!
(https://i.imgur.com/De5MY38.png)
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So he does. They grade them on 'their assessment of performance'.
Now if GM's assessment of performance is based on looks, then that's fine.
If it isn't, then why the discrepancy between what Edward says (graded on performance) and what their catalogue shows (graded on looks)?
It's either one or the other, isn't it? Unless GM believe the better looking the bat, the better the performance? Which we generally all believe is just not the case.
I'm beginning to think it's all a bit smoke and mirrors, frankly. :(
Phew! At last!
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Can someone get their hands on this? I was struggling with my 20 grain Pro bat last few games, and this might just be the thing to help me!
(https://i.imgur.com/De5MY38.png)
A what face?? Is that a scuff sheet??
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They are available from a UK manufacturer.
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Can someone get their hands on this? I was struggling with my 20 grain Pro bat last few games, and this might just be the thing to help me!
(https://i.imgur.com/De5MY38.png)
Gm bats in NZ dont have scuff sheet. They´re made in uk.
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https://youtu.be/TBGrcXgGHok
This will help buyer to decide what to buy. Looks or performance. Now we can actually compare performance of top ends and ugly looking cheap bats
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Can someone get their hands on this? I was struggling with my 20 grain Pro bat last few games, and this might just be the thing to help me!
(https://i.imgur.com/De5MY38.png)
So being as I have the same supplier for scuff, does that mean I get to start selling it as performance enhancing too?
How very, transparent...
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So being as I have the same supplier for scuff, does that mean I get to start selling it as performance enhancing too?
How very, transparent...
As opposed to grain hiding fibreglass? ;)
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As opposed to grain hiding fibreglass? ;)
Haha, I'm glad someone got that