Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Your Cricket => Topic started by: enlightened on June 20, 2019, 06:43:52 AM
-
So … I play at a standard where the batting team umpires and scores while the fielding team are on the pitch. In the last two games we have played our opposition has...…
a) not given a run out when the player was clearly at least 3 feet out of his ground when the stumps were broken by a direct hit
b) not given a clear caught behind when the opposition captain later told me he heard the nick from the side of the pitch
c) been guilty of doctoring the score by adding more runs than were actually scored in an over
I don't expect to get lbw decisions but this is ridiculous.....
-
That sort of thing is a common occurrence in my league. My skipper always chooses to bowl first just to see what the umpiring is like.
-
Happens pretty often in the TVL league in divisions where batting team umpires
Can say at least 75% of our games this season have had the above.
Tvl offers an extra point to teams who provide league umpires but only had one game where that happened so far this season
-
This is getting worse and worse
We've had so many blatabt lbw and caught behind not given this season! Even run outs!!
Really annoys me as I call it as I see it, if I'm wrong it's not because I refuse to give a mate out it's because I think it's not out and vice versa
I do sometimes think we play too fair when you see some decisions (or none decisions) from oppositions.
It's cheating at the end of the day and disgraceful imo
-
In the few games I've played without umpires, I will not give anyone out on my team unless it is absolutely stone dead (think back foot, in front of all 3, stone dead) because as a team, our 2s have been cheated out of the league as you guys mentioned so many times.
-
But this makes you no better than them.
If a team cheats to win I’m happy for them to do so. They get promoted then struggle all the next season as they’re not good enough. You stay in a division with other teams who like to play fairly.
-
Fielding at point what I've noticed in our league is the increasing number of wicketkeepers taking the ball in front of the stumps from the bowler knocking the bails off and appealing for stumpings and getting them one team started it and it's gradually got worse.
-
If you see that from point you’re saying that your wicketkeeper has been taking it in front?If so perhaps you could have a quiet word with him.
If the opposition keeper is doing it you can call no ball from square leg.
-
I gave a teammate out last year for an LBW. Very rare game that we didn't have an umpire. The bowler thanked me for giving it, one thing i'm not is a cheat. If its out they're gone in my opinion, i'm very competitive but not to the extent that i'd lose my integrity over winning
-
Oh another thing.. why are all these rubbish LBW decision always "going down leg"
not every LBW appeal can be sliding down?!?! its like a code for "I'm a cheat".
i had one last time out (about 2 weeks ago) gave it not out, decent appeal from bowler slip (and oddly square leg) for lbw, gave it not out and got asked why... my response... "cant be sure if its hit him inline or just outside off, i have doubt so cant give it" the bowler (a youngish kid) actually thanked be for the honesty!
get to later in the game we have 2 huge appeals (both hitting towards off stump and straight), bowler, keeper, 2 slips, gully, mid on and off all go up *(usually a sign its out in amateur cricket), not out going down leg. I get playing to win but play fair!!!!
sorry rant over!!
-
I was skipper for a must win game against the bottom of the table side last season. We couldn't get a panel umpire but the oppo (the home side) could, so I did the first stint at square leg (the panel umpire was doing both ends).
I gave our opener run out (it was close but he was gone, as testified by teammates watching from square of the wicket). He had a strop about it saying "I know I was short, you just don't expect your teammates to give you out!"
Thankfully we have two umpires more often than not, but I can't believe the mentality of some people who are basically advocating cheating. A sad sign of the times, really...
-
Our top wicket taker is a left armer, god knows how many more wickets he would take if teams didn’t use the stock “pitching outside leg” or “swinging back in too much” lines whenever their best batsman gets hit infront of all 3.
Last year a bloke got given LBW by his mate when he was adamant he hit it and sulked all the way off (I was at slip for a spinner and I didn’t hear an edge) He then came out to umpire and acted like a big baby. I hit his son full infront of middle stump and he acted like I’d just shot him when I appealed. It’s probably one of two LBW’s in my time playing where I was 100% certain he was gone. His son went on to make a further 70 odd and they won the game. God knows how you can reconcile that with yourself when you go home.
However, the worst thing for me is how tactical umpiring has become. I rarely get asked to go and do it because people know I’ll be fair and give the right decision rather than desperately trying to justify not giving it. Last season I gave an LBW the over before and then didn’t give one the next over (left arm round, batting well outside his crease, hit him well outside the line) and got called a cheat.
-
But this makes you no better than them.
If a team cheats to win I’m happy for them to do so. They get promoted then struggle all the next season as they’re not good enough. You stay in a division with other teams who like to play fairly.
Unfortunately there are too many teams that chest for this to work in my experience
-
It's pretty much a race to the bottom in the fairness stakes. There will always be a few exceptions in each division where the club or team ethos is to play fair.
In the few games I've played without umpires, I will not give anyone out on my team unless it is absolutely stone dead (think back foot, in front of all 3, stone dead) because as a team, our 2s have been cheated out of the league as you guys mentioned so many times.
This is pretty much how it happens. One "cheating" event in one match triggers another in a fresh match, and another etc. Pretty sh*t really. "Doing it to them because we've had it done to us" is not a good reason.
What really makes me really mad is the friendly games we play on Sundays. Nothing but a fun game and some personal achievement to play for, and yet lots of examples of obvious bias/cheating in this thread still happen in those matches.
Umpiring is bloody difficult of course, and what is stone dead to a bowler, keeper, 1st slip (square leg can always far cough with any lbw shout and normally gets a "Really?" from me) may always have some doubt in reality. Which does complicate things further.
-
I can say that the club I play for is disadvantaged by this. We do endeavour to play fair. We give lbw decisions when they are out. In the game above which involved the run out decision my opening batsman saved me a difficult decision when a ball went through to the keeper and the keeper (not the slips or the bowler) appealed for a catch. I was umpiring and saw no evidence that he'd hit it but within a split second he had his bat under his arm and was walking off. This is how it should be and honestly how my club plays the game.
And the cheating is definitely getting worse.
-
Happens pretty often in the TVL league in divisions where batting team umpires
Can say at least 75% of our games this season have had the above.
Tvl offers an extra point to teams who provide league umpires but only had one game where that happened so far this season
Last weekend a very out stumping given not out in TVL, batsman apologised later for his team mates officiating. He didn't walk but I think realised later he'd perhaps done the wrong thing.
When umpiring if I think it's out I'm giving it. I gave two run outs and two lbws in a four over stint over the winter, all of which were out and couldn't be complained about but other players wouldn't give their mates out when clearly gone.
-
Interesting- unfortunately it is common but I usually find it gets offset a bit if you’re both providing an umpire. The thing that bugs me is umpires not giving wides but I must say in the Hampshire league so far they’ve been pretty consistent so can’t really complain.
Cheating at any level is pathetic but in amateur cricket it’s inexcusable. I do not understand how anybody can care more about a game than the value of their integrity.
-
@WABH-J who do you play for mate?
-
I look at it like this:
- we play for fun
- games with lots of antagonism and arguments are less fun
- cheating or dishonest umpiring inevitably causes antagonism and spoils the game
- if games aren't fun, people will stop playing
- winning, losing, promotion, relegation are ultimately unimportant
- what matters is maintaining enough enthusiastic players to keep growing as a club
- teams that are dishonest might win more games, but they have less fun, eventually lose players, fold teams, sometimes fold altogether
- clubs that are honest may lose more games, but they have less antagonism, more fun, and continue to grow
So that's our team philosophy. If teams want to beat us by cheating, good luck to them. Let me get promoted in our place. We'll carry on doing things our way.
Over the last decade, we've encountered plenty of teams of dickheads that used dishonest means to get promoted. Without fail, they've always collapsed a few years later, while we continue to grow.
-
@WABH-J who do you play for mate?
Have literally just started playing for Aldershot - only played 2 games so far though!
-
Have literally just started playing for Aldershot - only played 2 games so far though!
Guessing you play in one of the regional leagues where panel umpires are unheard of? (Apologies if this isn't the case!)
My only gripe with the league this year has been leg side wides. Some weeks anything down leg is a wide, others it's at the umpires discretion. I'd personally prefer to just play everything down leg as a wide so everyone knows where they stand, but that's just me!
-
Guessing you play in one of the regional leagues where panel umpires are unheard of? (Apologies if this isn't the case!)
My only gripe with the league this year has been leg side wides. Some weeks anything down leg is a wide, others it's at the umpires discretion. I'd personally prefer to just play everything down leg as a wide so everyone knows where they stand, but that's just me!
Yeah I think so -
What’s killing me at the moment is that I’ve come from playing a standard of cricket where they were pretty tight on wides so i keep leaving stuff instinctively that then doesn’t get called!
-
It gets like that in the regional divisions if everything leg side was given wide the game would go on for hours.
-
Got to say I don't think the TVL is THAT bad in umpiring terms - admittedly it helps that not only do we have a regular umpire, but so do 7 of the other 9 sides in our division, so stints are limited to one end in 4 games a year. Obviously sometimes teams don't get decisions they think they should get, and there are some real turkeys (though thankfully the league committee has managed to drum out the two groups of players known to be especially bad in recent times) but I think a lot of the time its down to the perception of "home bias" or plain lack of knowledge of the laws amongst those asked to step in.
-
Guessing you play in one of the regional leagues where panel umpires are unheard of? (Apologies if this isn't the case!)
My only gripe with the league this year has been leg side wides. Some weeks anything down leg is a wide, others it's at the umpires discretion. I'd personally prefer to just play everything down leg as a wide so everyone knows where they stand, but that's just me!
Wides should be judged as per the Laws of Cricket unless there is an official directive/ ammendment from the league in question. As umpire's discretion is inevitably involved in the judging of off-side wides, why shouldn't it be the case with leg-side too? That said, I don't have a problem with anything missing the pads on the leg-side being a wide, as long as there is a clear and consistently upheld directive outlining this.
-
While I think it's probably unrealistic to expect everyone to be totally objective when umpiring their own team, this is a massive issue for amateur cricket. Personally, if I come up against a team who blatantly cheat I just book that week in as one to take off with the mrs.
-
Got to say I don't think the TVL is THAT bad in umpiring terms - admittedly it helps that not only do we have a regular umpire, but so do 7 of the other 9 sides in our division, so stints are limited to one end in 4 games a year. Obviously sometimes teams don't get decisions they think they should get, and there are some real turkeys (though thankfully the league committee has managed to drum out the two groups of players known to be especially bad in recent times) but I think a lot of the time its down to the perception of "home bias" or plain lack of knowledge of the laws amongst those asked to step in.
Agreed from my experience of div 3 and div 4, some obvious "home team" umpires but generally speaking they're fair and at least consistent if sometimes incompetent. They are definitely better than the majority of the panel umpires I came across in divs 3 and 4 of Cherwell league.
The only club game I played last year was in div 6 of TVL for our 2s, last game of season when i think you played against our 1s at our place. I umpired, gave our skip out lbw first over of game as he was plumb. The bowler and half their team were shocked they got an lbw decision in their favour! Told skip afterwards I couldn't think of reason not to give it and he said he thought he was out anyway. Unfortunately said bowler was an awful umpire not giving a blatant caught behind and gave some ridiculous wides. We were well on top and had won league so whilst annoyed I let it slide as the keeper...not something I usually do admittedly. Reminds me of a former club's end of season dinner where they did a top trumps style cards for us, I got a sportsmanship 10/10 "unless a batsman doesn't walk then he has a -10 figure but provides massive entertainment to anyone within earshot".
Amazingly only really kicked off once in the Chilterns League where quite a lot of umpires were blatant cheats as I'm sure @mohawks94 will agree. First time where I've encountered a batsman punching the ball to me with it looping up in the air, refusing to walk and umpire saying not out...apparently I got reported after that game 😂
-
It’s just the sad reality. People only care about winning and being the big dog. Sunday’s are just as bad, and we payed today in a tour game and one of their key bats nicked it and didn’t walk. So player umpire didn’t give it....
Sour feelings were left instantly sadly.
Winning or losing is really unimportant as we don’t win any money etc.. just play for actual fun
-
Utterly agree @meats (intrigued to know who that was against?), though the umpire I've had issues with most often is from Taplow (an lbw missing a second set and a caught mid wicket given as a bump ball). The umpire at Denham is awful and got the most mild mannered member of the CSG side a level two for giving such a bad decision that he completely lost it, called him an F-ing cheat and smashed a plastic chair with his bat. Old timer at Penn also caused issues by signalling a ball was supposedly going down leg by putting his finger up. We started celebrating (batsman had been hit in front of middle below the knee roll) and their umpire looked like he'd given him out then asked why we were celebrating. I e also been given lbw four yards down the track to a seamer vs Wraysbury by their ump. Massive crater in the crease so was batting well out of it and walking at the ball outside off and got triggered as soon as it hit my pad.
I'll admit I'm the sort who will always chat with an umpire, try to get them on my side a bit in case of a 50/50 but it's always in the hope rather than the expectation. I appreciate that umpires are giving up their time to get a game on for the rest of us and make sure I thank them properly and will always happily take my stint and do it properly as I'd hope other people would.
-
Utterly agree @meats (intrigued to know who that was against?), though the umpire I've had issues with most often is from Taplow (an lbw missing a second set and a caught mid wicket given as a bump ball). The umpire at Denham is awful and got the most mild mannered member of the CSG side a level two for giving such a bad decision that he completely lost it, called him an F-ing cheat and smashed a plastic chair with his bat. Old timer at Penn also caused issues by signalling a ball was supposedly going down leg by putting his finger up. We started celebrating (batsman had been hit in front of middle below the knee roll) and their umpire looked like he'd given him out then asked why we were celebrating. I e also been given lbw four yards down the track to a seamer vs Wraysbury by their ump. Massive crater in the crease so was batting well out of it and walking at the ball outside off and got triggered as soon as it hit my pad.
I'll admit I'm the sort who will always chat with an umpire, try to get them on my side a bit in case of a 50/50 but it's always in the hope rather than the expectation. I appreciate that umpires are giving up their time to get a game on for the rest of us and make sure I thank them properly and will always happily take my stint and do it properly as I'd hope other people would.
We have two regular umpires, one is absolutely atrocious so guessing he's the one you're referring to. He is just as bad with us. He gave one lbw in our favour to a ball missing another set of stumps where only bowler appealed and everyone behind stumps was laughing at bowler yet he will say not out to someone on back foot bang in front of all 3 pegs.
The game in question was against Littlewick when they had various mercenaries on their payroll. I think angriest bloke at CSG I came across was Winters I think, the opening bowler. Rest were ridiculously mild mannered!!!
Wraysbury are an odd bunch. A couple of them are great blokes yet some of them are utter so and so's. I got a shocking leg before against them from their ump in a low scoring game. No issues with the usual Penn umpire, found him to be a nice bloke, ditto your guy at CSG.
As an opening bat I made a point of being friendly with the umpires to hopefully benefit from any 50/50 decisions. Some it didn't work with but some I definitely feel like I benefitted from the close decisions, and in a few cases the not so close ones!!!!
-
I think there are also a disturbing number of players that just don’t know the rules that still go out to umpire in village cricket.
Already this year I’ve had “his foot was on the line” as an explanation for a not out stumping and when giving an lbw shout not out due to impact outside off stump playing a shot been told “so what? It’s hitting all three”
Scary really
-
I think there are also a disturbing number of players that just don’t know the rules that still go out to umpire in village cricket.
Already this year I’ve had “his foot was on the line” as an explanation for a not out stumping and when giving an lbw shout not out due to impact outside off stump playing a shot been told “so what? It’s hitting all three”
Scary really
Yes, this kind of stuff totally does my head in.
-
I think there are also a disturbing number of players that just don’t know the rules that still go out to umpire in village cricket.
Already this year I’ve had “his foot was on the line” as an explanation for a not out stumping and when giving an lbw shout not out due to impact outside off stump playing a shot been told “so what? It’s hitting all three”
Scary really
Similarly there are a number of players themselves who don't understand the rules, and throw a strop when decisions don't go their way! Had an offie the other week bowling over the wicket to a LH batsmen and he was apoplectic when I turned down a couple of LBW appeals and explained "mate. you're pitching it about a foot outside leg stump"!
I agree with the general view on here that you give it as you see it, as honestly as possible. I walk if I nick it, although a number of my teammates don't - their attitude is you get enough bad decisions throughout the season, so the occasional one in your favour evens it out. I was given out caught behind off my pad last week (assumed it was an outrageous LBW initially!)
-
Interesting- unfortunately it is common but I usually find it gets offset a bit if you’re both providing an umpire. The thing that bugs me is umpires not giving wides but I must say in the Hampshire league so far they’ve been pretty consistent so can’t really complain.
Cheating at any level is pathetic but in amateur cricket it’s inexcusable. I do not understand how anybody can care more about a game than the value of their integrity.
Never agreed with umpires being pretty consistent.call and not giving wides as it's unfair if during the match one team doesn't bowl them or bowl as many.
-
Often the same people will be heard in the bar afterwards talking about reverse swing, trigger movements and how wide the edges of their bat are. They almost certainly will not have showered.
-
Agreed, Dan was certainly grumpy, though you obviously never saw Payney at full chat. The game I got the shocker he booted a chair into me after he was out end of game.
-
Agreed, Dan was certainly grumpy, though you obviously never saw Payney at full chat. The game I got the shocker he booted a chair into me after he was out end of game.
They'll get right on with our lot come Saturday then! :D
-
Agreed from my experience of div 3 and div 4, some obvious "home team" umpires but generally speaking they're fair and at least consistent if sometimes incompetent. They are definitely better than the majority of the panel umpires I came across in divs 3 and 4 of Cherwell league.
Agreed - I've seen some shockers over the years, but only one or two that smacked of something nefarious.
Its funny how people perceive these things though - we played at Beaconsfield last year, and their umpire gave me a stinker (batting outside crease to a guy bowling huge in duckers, hit well forward - if I wasn't outside off, the angle of the ball would have taken it four stumps down). Walked off fuming. Later, our umpire gave their #3 an equally questionable one (I didn't appeal at slip, which is...rare for me!). Commiserated with him after the game, only to be told "but your one was definitely plumb". I was tempted to ask where Sir acquired those rose tinted spectacles!!!
-
This seems to fit here
https://twitter.com/crickshouts/status/1142064808138825728?s=21
-
Wow!! The fielding team took that very well! It would be enough to make my blood boil :(
-
Agreed - I've seen some shockers over the years, but only one or two that smacked of something nefarious.
Its funny how people perceive these things though - we played at Beaconsfield last year, and their umpire gave me a stinker (batting outside crease to a guy bowling huge in duckers, hit well forward - if I wasn't outside off, the angle of the ball would have taken it four stumps down). Walked off fuming. Later, our umpire gave their #3 an equally questionable one (I didn't appeal at slip, which is...rare for me!). Commiserated with him after the game, only to be told "but your one was definitely plumb". I was tempted to ask where Sir acquired those rose tinted spectacles!!!
Which team were you playing against at BCC? We know that Martin has the odd shocker in him, but then again most umpires do! Who do you play for @Manormanic?
-
Which team were you playing against at BCC? We know that Martin has the odd shocker in him, but then again most umpires do! Who do you play for @Manormanic?
Beaconsfield 2s - I'm pretty sure he said he plays for Hillingdon Manor.
-
This week the opposition tried to sneak an extra 5 points by entering the score on play-cricket as if they had lost the toss (which they hadn't). Shabby …. very shabby.
-
we had a couple of shockers yesterday, one big nick behind not given and one lbw both on the oppos last 2 recognised batters too! i wonder why they were not out!!!!
-
More chicanery from our opposition this weekend. Well behind the required run rate and 6 wickets down their umpires found other ways to win them the match. Full toss from a medium pacer that hit the stumps half way up called a no ball - physically impossible. Obvious caught behind not given. Short term reaction is to feel cheated but the longer term reaction is just to be glad that I don't play for a team that wins games in that way. Four or five excellent young bowlers in their team as well. Shame their cricket education will be one of win at all costs.
-
horrible game here too, we had this guy edge behind twice and not walk. Their umpire apologised after the game and said he thinks he did hit it. Brilliant thanks mate but doesnt matter so much now, not the end of the world mistakes happen. Although what was hilarious was the batsman was HEAD OF FRAUD at a major bank, heard him telling his team mates on the boundary how he had just found an account with X tens of thousands in so won a charity auction to have Andrew Strauss play in a match with you.
Oh the irony