Topic: Lack of Honesty (Read 8986 times)

mohawks94 · « **Reply #15 on:** June 20, 2019, 11:48:34 AM »

Quote from: csnew on June 20, 2019, 07:04:40 AM

Happens pretty often in the TVL league in divisions where batting team umpires

Can say at least 75% of our games this season have had the above.

Tvl offers an extra point to teams who provide league umpires but only had one game where that happened so far this season

Last weekend a very out stumping given not out in TVL, batsman apologised later for his team mates officiating. He didn't walk but I think realised later he'd perhaps done the wrong thing.

When umpiring if I think it's out I'm giving it. I gave two run outs and two lbws in a four over stint over the winter, all of which were out and couldn't be complained about but other players wouldn't give their mates out when clearly gone.

WABH-J · « **Reply #16 on:** June 20, 2019, 02:24:30 PM »

Interesting- unfortunately it is common but I usually find it gets offset a bit if you�re both providing an umpire. The thing that bugs me is umpires not giving wides but I must say in the Hampshire league so far they�ve been pretty consistent so can�t really complain.

Cheating at any level is pathetic but in amateur cricket it�s inexcusable. I do not understand how anybody can care more about a game than the value of their integrity.

WalkingWicket37 · « **Reply #17 on:** June 20, 2019, 02:41:27 PM »

@WABH-J who do you play for mate?

SLA · « **Reply #18 on:** June 20, 2019, 03:08:15 PM »

I look at it like this:

- we play for fun
- games with lots of antagonism and arguments are less fun
- cheating or dishonest umpiring inevitably causes antagonism and spoils the game
- if games aren't fun, people will stop playing
- winning, losing, promotion, relegation are ultimately unimportant
- what matters is maintaining enough enthusiastic players to keep growing as a club
- teams that are dishonest might win more games, but they have less fun, eventually lose players, fold teams, sometimes fold altogether
- clubs that are honest may lose more games, but they have less antagonism, more fun, and continue to grow

So that's our team philosophy. If teams want to beat us by cheating, good luck to them. Let me get promoted in our place. We'll carry on doing things our way.

Over the last decade, we've encountered plenty of teams of dickheads that used dishonest means to get promoted. Without fail, they've always collapsed a few years later, while we continue to grow.

WABH-J · « **Reply #19 on:** June 20, 2019, 03:16:56 PM »

Quote from: WalkingWicket37 on June 20, 2019, 02:41:27 PM

@WABH-J who do you play for mate?

Have literally just started playing for Aldershot - only played 2 games so far though!

WalkingWicket37 · « **Reply #20 on:** June 20, 2019, 03:34:44 PM »

Quote from: WABH-J on June 20, 2019, 03:16:56 PM

Have literally just started playing for Aldershot - only played 2 games so far though!

Guessing you play in one of the regional leagues where panel umpires are unheard of? (Apologies if this isn't the case!)

My only gripe with the league this year has been leg side wides. Some weeks anything down leg is a wide, others it's at the umpires discretion. I'd personally prefer to just play everything down leg as a wide so everyone knows where they stand, but that's just me!

WABH-J · « **Reply #21 on:** June 20, 2019, 03:49:30 PM »

Quote from: WalkingWicket37 on June 20, 2019, 03:34:44 PM

Guessing you play in one of the regional leagues where panel umpires are unheard of? (Apologies if this isn't the case!)

My only gripe with the league this year has been leg side wides. Some weeks anything down leg is a wide, others it's at the umpires discretion. I'd personally prefer to just play everything down leg as a wide so everyone knows where they stand, but that's just me!

Yeah I think so -

What�s killing me at the moment is that I�ve come from playing a standard of cricket where they were pretty tight on wides so i keep leaving stuff instinctively that then doesn�t get called!

Timbo287 · « **Reply #22 on:** June 20, 2019, 05:35:10 PM »

It gets like that in the regional divisions if everything leg side was given wide the game would go on for hours.

Manormanic · « **Reply #23 on:** June 20, 2019, 06:06:13 PM »

Got to say I don't think the TVL is THAT bad in umpiring terms - admittedly it helps that not only do we have a regular umpire, but so do 7 of the other 9 sides in our division, so stints are limited to one end in 4 games a year. Obviously sometimes teams don't get decisions they think they should get, and there are some real turkeys (though thankfully the league committee has managed to drum out the two groups of players known to be especially bad in recent times) but I think a lot of the time its down to the perception of "home bias" or plain lack of knowledge of the laws amongst those asked to step in.

Bats_Entertainment · « **Reply #24 on:** June 20, 2019, 09:03:09 PM »

Quote from: WalkingWicket37 on June 20, 2019, 03:34:44 PM

Guessing you play in one of the regional leagues where panel umpires are unheard of? (Apologies if this isn't the case!)

My only gripe with the league this year has been leg side wides. Some weeks anything down leg is a wide, others it's at the umpires discretion. I'd personally prefer to just play everything down leg as a wide so everyone knows where they stand, but that's just me!

Wides should be judged as per the Laws of Cricket unless there is an official directive/ ammendment from the league in question. As umpire's discretion is inevitably involved in the judging of off-side wides, why shouldn't it be the case with leg-side too? That said, I don't have a problem with anything missing the pads on the leg-side being a wide, as long as there is a clear and consistently upheld directive outlining this.

edge · « **Reply #25 on:** June 20, 2019, 09:25:47 PM »

While I think it's probably unrealistic to expect everyone to be totally objective when umpiring their own team, this is a massive issue for amateur cricket. Personally, if I come up against a team who blatantly cheat I just book that week in as one to take off with the mrs.

meats · « **Reply #26 on:** June 20, 2019, 09:49:45 PM »

Quote from: Manormanic on June 20, 2019, 06:06:13 PM

Got to say I don't think the TVL is THAT bad in umpiring terms - admittedly it helps that not only do we have a regular umpire, but so do 7 of the other 9 sides in our division, so stints are limited to one end in 4 games a year. Obviously sometimes teams don't get decisions they think they should get, and there are some real turkeys (though thankfully the league committee has managed to drum out the two groups of players known to be especially bad in recent times) but I think a lot of the time its down to the perception of "home bias" or plain lack of knowledge of the laws amongst those asked to step in.

Agreed from my experience of div 3 and div 4, some obvious "home team" umpires but generally speaking they're fair and at least consistent if sometimes incompetent. They are definitely better than the majority of the panel umpires I came across in divs 3 and 4 of Cherwell league.

The only club game I played last year was in div 6 of TVL for our 2s, last game of season when i think you played against our 1s at our place. I umpired, gave our skip out lbw first over of game as he was plumb. The bowler and half their team were shocked they got an lbw decision in their favour! Told skip afterwards I couldn't think of reason not to give it and he said he thought he was out anyway. Unfortunately said bowler was an awful umpire not giving a blatant caught behind and gave some ridiculous wides. We were well on top and had won league so whilst annoyed I let it slide as the keeper...not something I usually do admittedly. Reminds me of a former club's end of season dinner where they did a top trumps style cards for us, I got a sportsmanship 10/10 "unless a batsman doesn't walk then he has a -10 figure but provides massive entertainment to anyone within earshot".

Amazingly only really kicked off once in the Chilterns League where quite a lot of umpires were blatant cheats as I'm sure @mohawks94 will agree. First time where I've encountered a batsman punching the ball to me with it looping up in the air, refusing to walk and umpire saying not out...apparently I got reported after that game 😂

ProCricketer1982 · « **Reply #27 on:** June 20, 2019, 09:57:22 PM »

It�s just the sad reality. People only care about winning and being the big dog. Sunday�s are just as bad, and we payed today in a tour game and one of their key bats nicked it and didn�t walk. So player umpire didn�t give it....

Sour feelings were left instantly sadly.

Winning or losing is really unimportant as we don�t win any money etc.. just play for actual fun

mohawks94 · « **Reply #28 on:** June 20, 2019, 10:05:51 PM »

Utterly agree @meats (intrigued to know who that was against?), though the umpire I've had issues with most often is from Taplow (an lbw missing a second set and a caught mid wicket given as a bump ball). The umpire at Denham is awful and got the most mild mannered member of the CSG side a level two for giving such a bad decision that he completely lost it, called him an F-ing cheat and smashed a plastic chair with his bat. Old timer at Penn also caused issues by signalling a ball was supposedly going down leg by putting his finger up. We started celebrating (batsman had been hit in front of middle below the knee roll) and their umpire looked like he'd given him out then asked why we were celebrating. I e also been given lbw four yards down the track to a seamer vs Wraysbury by their ump. Massive crater in the crease so was batting well out of it and walking at the ball outside off and got triggered as soon as it hit my pad.

I'll admit I'm the sort who will always chat with an umpire, try to get them on my side a bit in case of a 50/50 but it's always in the hope rather than the expectation. I appreciate that umpires are giving up their time to get a game on for the rest of us and make sure I thank them properly and will always happily take my stint and do it properly as I'd hope other people would.

meats · « **Reply #29 on:** June 20, 2019, 10:18:03 PM »

Quote from: mohawks94 on June 20, 2019, 10:05:51 PM

Utterly agree @meats (intrigued to know who that was against?), though the umpire I've had issues with most often is from Taplow (an lbw missing a second set and a caught mid wicket given as a bump ball). The umpire at Denham is awful and got the most mild mannered member of the CSG side a level two for giving such a bad decision that he completely lost it, called him an F-ing cheat and smashed a plastic chair with his bat. Old timer at Penn also caused issues by signalling a ball was supposedly going down leg by putting his finger up. We started celebrating (batsman had been hit in front of middle below the knee roll) and their umpire looked like he'd given him out then asked why we were celebrating. I e also been given lbw four yards down the track to a seamer vs Wraysbury by their ump. Massive crater in the crease so was batting well out of it and walking at the ball outside off and got triggered as soon as it hit my pad.

I'll admit I'm the sort who will always chat with an umpire, try to get them on my side a bit in case of a 50/50 but it's always in the hope rather than the expectation. I appreciate that umpires are giving up their time to get a game on for the rest of us and make sure I thank them properly and will always happily take my stint and do it properly as I'd hope other people would.

We have two regular umpires, one is absolutely atrocious so guessing he's the one you're referring to. He is just as bad with us. He gave one lbw in our favour to a ball missing another set of stumps where only bowler appealed and everyone behind stumps was laughing at bowler yet he will say not out to someone on back foot bang in front of all 3 pegs.

The game in question was against Littlewick when they had various mercenaries on their payroll. I think angriest bloke at CSG I came across was Winters I think, the opening bowler. Rest were ridiculously mild mannered!!!

Wraysbury are an odd bunch. A couple of them are great blokes yet some of them are utter so and so's. I got a shocking leg before against them from their ump in a low scoring game. No issues with the usual Penn umpire, found him to be a nice bloke, ditto your guy at CSG.

As an opening bat I made a point of being friendly with the umpires to hopefully benefit from any 50/50 decisions. Some it didn't work with but some I definitely feel like I benefitted from the close decisions, and in a few cases the not so close ones!!!!

Author Topic: Lack of Honesty (Read 8986 times)

mohawks94

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WABH-J

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WalkingWicket37

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SLA

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WABH-J

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WalkingWicket37

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WABH-J

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Timbo287

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Manormanic

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Bats_Entertainment

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edge

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meats

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ProCricketer1982

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mohawks94

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meats

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