Custom Bats Cricket Forum
General Cricket => Your Cricket => Umpires => Topic started by: Howzat on August 11, 2008, 08:14:11 AM
-
Whats the worst decision you have ever got from an umpire? Once you have written it -think was it a hard decsion to make?
Mine has to be being given out LBW half way down the track! I dont think the umpire found it a hard decision...he just knew if i was out we wouldnt win!
-
Hi folks. Some will know from elsewhere.
On this board we hope to start serious dicussions about umpires, Laws and rules and we will seek input from all who are interested. Umpiring is having problems at present and perhaps we might with deep thought try and solve some of the issues.
Oh and Leo, was this an official umpire or someone else?
-
In our junior cricket we have the coaches umpiring...
-
Ah yes of course. A little later as we go through the series on umpires and umpiring I will discuss an initiative we have taken in the local competition about junior cricket, umpires and umpiring.
This initiative might not solve all the problems but it isolates the cheating parents and coaches who forget fairness. In a recent canvas of junior players I did it was found that perceived umpire 'bias' was a major reason for not continuing in cricket. So there are solutions to this. Then again perhaps some junior players, pushed by their parents, are not as good as they believe.
Hint 1. A hand made 750 pound bat does not a batsman make.
-
my worst was in a 2nds match and the some people who wernt playing for the oppostion where umpiring and an legspinner came on round the wicket pitched outside leg and went onto my pads, so if it pitches outside leg it couldnt of been, pitched a fair bit outside but you win some you lose some,
welcome to the forum art and i have a question for you, in an u15s match a bowler bowled and it came up higher than i thought and went off my arm (somewhere between the wrist and elbow) and the keeper caught it, i was given out and asked why at the end because i assumed he thought i gloved it but he said you where out because it hit your baselayer which is not an item that you have to wear therefore its out, was he right?
-
Mine has to be when I went to pull a leg spinner who was coming around the wicket, it hit my outside leg, whilst also pitching outside leg, and only the bowler went up.
-
Good question. Now let's take a chance to look at the Law.
Provided that all the conditions of a fair catch are met we must in this case turn to Law 6, The Bat. So the glove including and wristband, providing the hand is holding the bat at the time it is struck is deemed part of the bat. So we come to the obscure part of what happens if you have a piece of clothing that is touching your glove and it is hit.
However let us put that conjecture aside and if you were wearing a baselayer that was not in contact with or part of your glove then if it is struct it is not part of your bat and you should not be out. hmmm.
Now the harsh umpire is coming out in me. For the umpire to be asked a question generally a batsman has made a mistake. Simple answer is that if you hit the middle of the bat and either keep the ball on the ground or clear the boundary with a lofted shot the methods of dismissal are greatly reduced.
-
Many years ago while at school I was on 99. Facing a legspinner with 'promise' or so I was told later I padded a ball away that clearly pitched outside and hit me outside the leg stump. The umpire, a teacher from my own school, gave me out LBW.
I resolved on that day that if ever I became an umpire everybody would receive equal treatment, test star of 6th grade number 11. No one has ever got or ever will get a special favour from me one way or the other.
-
Wasn't involving me, but at a 1st XI match two weeks ago, there was apparently a whole host of truly shocking decisions; the worst of which being one where the batsman came down the track, got a huge inside edge, and our bowler only went up slightly, just a reaction. It wasn't even a half-appeal, yet the umpire's finger was up straight away! Another, was when one of our batsman again inside edged the ball onto his pad, noticeably, and went through for a single. When the batsman got to the other end, the umpire said; "It's a good job you got outside the line", implying that had he been in line, he would have given it. These were league umpires, by the way, not players or umpires provided by the teams.
-
Good question. Now let's take a chance to look at the Law.
Provided that all the conditions of a fair catch are met we must in this case turn to Law 6, The Bat. So the glove including and wristband, providing the hand is holding the bat at the time it is struck is deemed part of the bat. So we come to the obscure part of what happens if you have a piece of clothing that is touching your glove and it is hit.
However let us put that conjecture aside and if you were wearing a baselayer that was not in contact with or part of your glove then if it is struct it is not part of your bat and you should not be out. hmmm.
Now the harsh umpire is coming out in me. For the umpire to be asked a question generally a batsman has made a mistake. Simple answer is that if you hit the middle of the bat and either keep the ball on the ground or clear the boundary with a lofted shot the methods of dismissal are greatly reduced.
i am not sure i understand all that but does that mean if the clothing is touching the glove then i would be out? bedause mine wasnt actualy touching the glove it was halfway between wrist and elbow( well near enough)
-
gramw have a look at the Law and see what you think. Also check Tom Smith's and see what you conclusion is. In the blur of playing a shot isn't it also wise to make sure there is a separation between glove and arm guard, for example? If everything is touching and looks connected it is a bit rough to argue after the incident that the items were in fact separate pieces of clothing.
Oh and to Arthur it is nice to withdraw an appeal if one is given in error and it obviously was not out. We all make mistakes and the more pressure placed on umpires for minor things there is a much greater liklihood that errors in decisions will be made at an increasing rate one way or the other.
Another old axiom, the decisions become apparently much worse in general relationship to the larger the margin of defeat in the eyes of the defeated team.
-
The two umpires got the decisions wrong on several occasions, for both teams, one bowler ended with 7 wickets, only 3 of which were definitely out, the other 4 were all marginal LBW's. There were 7 leg before dismissals in the game, something extremely rare, and I can't see every single one of those going on to indeed hit the stumps.
Regarding the half appeal, we didn't think to retract the appeal due to it being a league umpire, and therefore having to respect their decision, no matter how wrong. Also the speed at which he gave the decision, as soon as the bowler made a sound that the ump thought was an appeal, out came the finger, no thought, no hesitation whatsoever.
I understand where you are coming from, but as the umpires were commissioned by the league, you'd have thought they'd be of a higher standard, as frankly they were shocking throughout the game.
-
Well I should support my brothers I guess. As for LBW's they are generally so easy if you follow the standard steps in appraising the incident but I defy anyone to pick an small inside edge once the bowling gets above 145 k's an hour.
I gave 2 LBWs in a game a couple of weeks ago, well actually one walked so I only gave one lol.
-
I got given out LBW earlier this season when the ball jagged back and hit me in the box... I'm 5'9" tall so not massive but not short either but was standing up tall trying to hit the ball off the back-foot.
When I asked the umpire about it after the game... he said "I thought the ball might just be clipping the top of leg stump" .....whatever happend to benefit of the doubt?? LOL
Must admit I dont argue decisions but I did query that one as I thought it a little odd.
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yB3dJElsv_E
-
can anyone remember what that advert was for theres another one on youtube somewhere
-
Opening the batting in a festival this week, fairly tall left arm over bowler...
I bat out of my crease, and I had come a couple of paces down the track. It has pitched way outside leg, probably hit me outside, and as it hit me above the pad, it was high too. I was preparing or whatever for the next ball, when I heard celebration... I looked up, and saw the umpire's finger.
I was furious, so copied the LBW section from Tom Smith's onto a piece of paper and when we shook hands at the end I slipped the paper in his hand. (No Swearing Please)...
-
how does that one work redback?
-
the batsmen doesn't seem to question the decision like stand there he just walks
-
how does that one work redback?
It was an advert on TV it was set up
-
o ::) what advert was it?
-
holy hell that was pathetic. good find redback.
Worst decision ive had was being given out bowled when the ball hit my pad and the ball was never in line and hit me above the kneeroll. And Being 6 foot 1 it would have cleared the stups by a few inches. Thankfully after a bit of talk from the square leg the call was revoked and i was reinstated. Both Umps were coaches. yet then the other team cheated but im not going to go into that.
-
Keep going folks this is very interesting.
Shortly I will start a series called 'The Umpire was Confused" which goes through a few decisions and why they were made or why they were not. Yes real life stuff.
-
yes it was an advert and i remember it was going to go on sky sports(i think) where the brit insurance advert is now and i think it was going to be for specsavers so know its not real its made up, theres another one on there somewhere i will have a look for yous
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBIu9jgIkpA&feature=related just to prove its fake watch the wk once he appeals and starts walking forward
-
Well I guess sol much for real life expereinces, let's base a discussion on an advert or youtube
-
art if that is aimed at me i was saying that to show sambo that it was fake so the ump wasnt bad like he thought
-
Had some blinders from a parent umpire tonight:
1) Called a wide when it hit the batsmen square in the back and bounced to square leg
2) When queried on 1) he said that because it hadn't hit the pads it could be given as a wide (!?!)
3) Warned a bowler for bowling short when the ball hit the batsmen in the ribs
4) Gave a stumping not out and justified his decision by saying the toe had been on the line the whole time
-
We have a program here that helps parent umpires and it is a very good one. The aim is to give live advice during a game on the laws and competition rules. The aim is to give more confidence to everyone that decision making is a good as possible and to make obvious the parents who absolutely cheat in favour of their own child or team. We have also developed an interactive umpire, player, parent presentation that covers the most important Laws and rules and also covers etiquette in cricket.
Frankly the fact that clubs somehow refuse to involve themselkves in understanding the laws and rules through interaction with umpires and their parents andf juniors always amazes me. They are first to criticise trained and dedicated umpires but run shoddy junior cricket that turns many youngsters off cricket because of the shocking umpiring that most pareants seem happy to be part of.
Regard a scene in a recent match of U16's.
Genius batsman plays and misses three times down leg side. The fourth time the ball slides off the middle of the bat, jumps 5 centimetres sideways and is caught by the keeper. Up goes the finger. Genius seems upset, wanders off shaking his head. At drinks genius's father approaches umpire denying son had hit the ball. (yep he has great eyes he was 75 metres away at the time at about cover.)
It was explained that the ball was hit. he protested that son had said he hadn't hit it. Well it was suggested perhaps genius and father can explain the physics behind how a ball when it got lecvel with the bat that was outside the bads at the time moved 5 centimetres sideways and a loud woody snick was also heard. Hmmm genius was still right after the match and parent was protesting loudly.
Most umpiring associations offer training to parents but few seem to want to take it up. Umpiring is such an easy task they don't have to learn the most basic of rules. This is one of the great pities of modern cricket.
Earlier this season I was asked to a midweek schoolboys match that was about 75 minutes drive from home. On arriving at the ground I had been given the wrong starting time, an hour too early so I toured the local sites and on getting back to the ground 45 minutes before the match no one was there. Both teams turned up 10 minutes before time and wanted to start late. Hmmm.
Both coaches appraoched me for a discussion which started with the words 'You can't be much of an umpire if you have been allocated this game so we will be on hand to help out if you get into trouble.'
Being a calm type of person I collected my gear, got in the car and drove home. I heard the match descended into choas after about 90 minutes.
So teams and clubs, lift your act get involved in understanding how to umpire and what the Laws and rules mean. Many experienced umpires are getting sick of this 'new' breed of young cricketer who believes everyone is as incompetent as many parent umpires and take that grudge through their career.
-
Wouldnt mind being umpire. Although i think there should be one prerequisite. They must have balls
-
Im a really dodgy umpire i always give my team out LBW i cant help it - i always think its out loL!
-
Sambo: "They need balls" well not really we are the only ones on the field not allowed to play with them. lol.
Everyone can learn the laws and local rules. Expereince gives a helping hand with judgement and if you have played it certainly makes the task easier. You have the best seat in the house and watching a great bowler let go the perfect leg cutter, watch it hit the deck and cut a little and the batsman plays, gets an edge and is caught in the slips cordon is a wonderful expereince just as watching a great batsman demolish an attack with wonderful shots is awesome to watch and as an umpire you are there in the middle of everything.
Talk to your local association about becoming an umpire. As for players behaviour, it is only a very small minority who are idiots and the system if it needs to be applied can work those work out of being idiots. Yes we make mistakes at times but remember for us to make a mistake a player has had to made a mistake for an appeal.
-
I got caught out off a bump ball... the umpire didnt even know what a bump ball was!
-
yeah i kinda meant they gotta have balls not to crumble under the people who yell the crap at them and pressure them and call them cheats and what not. And dead right about the experience thing. it happened to me. i was playing 5th grade and i was at square leg. our captain stumbles out and starts tonking the living crap out of the bowlers. he hit 79 or something off 30 odd.
great \
stuff