Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Your Kit => Topic started by: 123* on March 08, 2021, 06:25:15 PM
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Whilst staying up watching the Australia v India test match a while back I fancied a pair of SG gloves on display, found them on Online Stockist for a steal.
Ordered them with no expectations and thinking I might get them in a couple of months, got a text from DPD about a parcel delivery 6 days later, couldn’t think of anything I’d ordered, opened the box and couldn’t believe they were here so quick!
Brilliant service, I’ve ordered a few more s a result. Would I buy a bat from them? Probably not, but for softs they are brilliant!
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It would help to know where the seller and buyer are located.
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I've had a few bits and pieces off OLS, delivery has always been quick and kit is good value. Wouldn't ever use them for something more expensive and especially not a bat but for cheap softs, accessories and luggage they're pretty decent.
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I have ordered from them on 3 occasions. On the last occasion, the package arrived sooner when coming from India than an order I placed in the UK on the same day. I have read some mixed reports, but my own personal experience has been good
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Adding to the bats stuff: They actually contact you to ask for your specifications about weight of the bat you selected. Often even sending you pics of a bunch of models. That was rather amazing tbh.
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I've ordered off them countless times over the years.Ive never had a problem with them.Always what I wanted and quick
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Just out of interest, what have shipping costs been like?
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Just out of interest, what have shipping costs been like?
Beat me to it, and customs charges. Been tempted to order for a while
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Ordered a fair few bats. Value for money and good quality particularly SG.
Communication has improved over the years. Postage on bats is £12-15 if ordering one
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ive used them a heap of times. theyve always been pretty good
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For the sake of balance, I ordered a few things from them at the start of this year (mid Jan). They whatsapped me after a few days saying something was out of stock and I can either wait or send without the item (so far so fair). I asked them to send 'as is' but heard nothing for about a week - tried to contact them via whatsapp to chase and they didn't respond or even read the message. I know they were online as they were sending messages to my other number (their general marketing messages) and they were last online recently.
After another week or so I whatsapped them again asking to cancel the order as I hadn't heard anything or received any product and it was now 2 weeks post order - heard nothing, message unread. Then emailed them asking to cancel the order - no response.
After a further week I raised a case through paypal and sent a message with it saying that I want to cancel and get a refund - having tried to contact them via multiple whatsapps and emails to different addresses. Again no response.
Made a final attempt through paypal after another week saying (politely) that I would have no option but to escalate it to a paypal claim if they didn't respond given they'd been sat on my £190 for a month and I had no idea if/when any products would be arriving.
They finally refunded me (with no accompanying message of any kind) on 27 Feb. Last contact I had from them was 30 Jan following an order on 20 Jan.
I appreciate that it is a risk you take to a degree - but not one I'll be taking again personally!
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The next time there's a post with people complaining about the lack of interaction from sponsors, I'm just going to link back to this thread - this is exactly why people don't bother to sponsor or interact with the forum anymore, Online Stockist couldn't be further away from what "CBF" supposedly stands for (and I'm not a sponsor before anyone moans!)
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I've been here 18 months and if there's no forum interaction from Sponsors, then why should consumers be loyal to something which is well in the past. I very much doubt you'll get the likes of a B3 Cricket 50% off bat voucher for the first 100 people thread again.
However, those that have regularly been active here during my time - Ayrtek and Six Sixes. I've then gone on to make purchases from and been very happy.
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The next time there's a post with people complaining about the lack of interaction from sponsors, I'm just going to link back to this thread - this is exactly why people don't bother to sponsor or interact with the forum anymore, Online Stockist couldn't be further away from what "CBF" supposedly stands for (and I'm not a sponsor before anyone moans!)
I agree - in my case I am always on the lookout for soft gear the right size for me - so I wanted to try some indian sizes not generally available in the UK to see if they were a better match. I had a specific requirement and being able to order a few pairs at sensible cost, see what stuck and be able to sell what didn't without making a loss was the driving factor behind attempting the purchase. Lesson learned I suppose.
For me bats are a different case as I can get whatever I need in the UK and have it built to my specs - same not true of softs.
As for what CBF stands for - I am not a longstanding enough member to be able to opine on that, but like any advertising platform I assume sponsors are trying to target a particular type of potential customer. Does the fact that people are looking to OLS for gear make them (or the forum as a whole) the 'wrong' people to target? I would suggest that the level of gear geekery on here is what drives the pursuit of equipment from any and all sources to get the 'best' or most suited for them - perhaps that is the type of customer/brand exposure a sponsor is after, perhaps it isn't - but I don't think you would find the level of knowledge here in many other places.
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The next time there's a post with people complaining about the lack of interaction from sponsors, I'm just going to link back to this thread - this is exactly why people don't bother to sponsor or interact with the forum anymore, Online Stockist couldn't be further away from what "CBF" supposedly stands for (and I'm not a sponsor before anyone moans!)
is this not a symptom of the rising cost of softs and cricket kit in general in the UK over the last 5-6 years? Small brands are charging circa £80 for gloves now - is it any surprise that people will look to India to find cheaper equipment? I've not bought from overseas myself, but can understand why people do it.
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I MASSIVELY respect anyone running their own business currently and have bought from Solitaire,Choice,Willostix etc in the past,and doubt i`d ever order a bat from OLS but have done so for softs in the past,and never had anything other than authentic,genuine and 100% satisfaction.
I`d suggest that when punters see virtually the same Pad and glove design for 50-60% less,and to a lesser degree bags/duffles,if they`ve taken the leap of faith,they`ve be en rewarded..market forces/consumerism,rules,i fear
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The next time there's a post with people complaining about the lack of interaction from sponsors, I'm just going to link back to this thread - this is exactly why people don't bother to sponsor or interact with the forum anymore, Online Stockist couldn't be further away from what "CBF" supposedly stands for (and I'm not a sponsor before anyone moans!)
Having started playing in the days when your kit was limited to what your local sports shop would stock or, if you were lucky, any bat makers local to you, the Internet has been fanatic for gaining access to kit for new businesses around the country. There are items I would not have but but seeing them on the forum.
The other side of it is that it gives you access to all those items that may in the past have been more difficult to get hold of. I have a pair or coloured pads through OLS which I would have bought in the UK but no brand I contacted at the time - including GN - had them for sale. I also recently purchased 3 different inner thigh pads in an effort to get a set up with my Strettons that worked.
It may be different for other people, but for me, they are operating in different areas
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I should probably add as I didn't really explain myself, I have no issue with OLS and totally appreciate they have a place in the market which many will utilise.
It's just CBF was supposed to be the "Custom Bats Forum". Championing British brands, especially those who make their bats from the raw cleft, whereas lately it just appears to be totally the opposite (and thus less input from the brands it was initially aimed at!).
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I should probably add as I didn't really explain myself, I have no issue with OLS and totally appreciate they have a place in the market which many will utilise.
It's just CBF was supposed to be the "Custom Bats Forum". Championing British brands, especially those who make their bats from the raw cleft, whereas lately it just appears to be totally the opposite (and thus less input from the brands it was initially aimed at!).
Having been on here pretty much from day dot and having owned my own 'brand' of sorts its unforuately a catch22 situation. If sponsors don't participate and actively input into the forum then discussions on here will drift away from those brands... and towards others that can offer decent deals like OLS - that's just the way it is...
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It's just CBF was supposed to be the "Custom Bats Forum". Championing British brands, especially those who make their bats from the raw cleft, whereas lately it just appears to be totally the opposite (and thus less input from the brands it was initially aimed at!).
TBH we created it because the old Cricket Supplies forum stopped anyone talking about other brands which weren't stocked by them, which at the time Leo and I wanted to be championing Fusion, Laver and Redback.
So while to an extent you're right, I'm also not 100% sure restricting members to only talking about certain sponsors or brands is ever a good idea. Particularly as that 'censorship' (and i hate that word) was the reason we started it.
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I should probably add as I didn't really explain myself, I have no issue with OLS and totally appreciate they have a place in the market which many will utilise.
It's just CBF was supposed to be the "Custom Bats Forum". Championing British brands, especially those who make their bats from the raw cleft, whereas lately it just appears to be totally the opposite (and thus less input from the brands it was initially aimed at!).
Obviously other brands/retailers get discussed but speaking from personal experience the forum has definitely opened my eyes to a lot of smaller brands. Currently I've got a few pairs of gloves from OLS but the forum has also led me to buying kit from Neon, H4L, Red Ink, Scott, Robert James, Reaper, BlankBats, Select, Duck&Run, etc.
Likelihood is without CBF I'd never have bought from any of those brands and would have spent my money with Gray Nics, Kookaburra, GM.
So, while I take your point that it would be nice to see a bit more discussion and support for the little guys, there's definitely still a level of support for them coming via the forum.
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I should probably add as I didn't really explain myself, I have no issue with OLS and totally appreciate they have a place in the market which many will utilise.
It's just CBF was supposed to be the "Custom Bats Forum". Championing British brands, especially those who make their bats from the raw cleft, whereas lately it just appears to be totally the opposite (and thus less input from the brands it was initially aimed at!).
Don't you source your bats and softs from Indian market and sell here in UK? Correct me if I am wrong
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The next time there's a post with people complaining about the lack of interaction from sponsors, I'm just going to link back to this thread - this is exactly why people don't bother to sponsor or interact with the forum anymore, Online Stockist couldn't be further away from what "CBF" supposedly stands for (and I'm not a sponsor before anyone moans!)
In addition to this though its not the easiest option to become a sponsor. Having started my own brand last year and hand shaping bats i did enquire about it as I have been on here a number of years now and thought it would be good to try and offer some ‘’Sponsor’’ input but its quote a hard task to do really from the list of requirements that were set. Also worth noting that there are now a couple of others in Scott Cricket and Reaper that are really trying to offer some input and share pics of what they like me are offering and bar maybe one or two 1 line posts there isn’t 2 pages of comments or views or feedback like this can get about some gloves from OLS.
Worth noting that certainly H4L and B3 are now far bigger brands than when they advertised on here and the time they can focus on here is limited ( doesn’t explain zero content however) but also i wonder how many messages they got for cleft pics, bats being designed to the tiniest detail, wanting a discount etc that never materialised into a sale so total waste of time, Hell iv had at least 5 who have messaged, sent pics argued about price, finally agreed or got beaten into submission and agreed a price and then never pay or reply again.
Catch 22 basically
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Don't you source your bats and softs from Indian market and sell here in UK? Correct me if I am wrong
Yes (on the most part, but not all) - which is why I said "Championing British brands, especially those who make their bats from the raw cleft" - at no point did I say I make my bats, christ I haven't even got the skills to build a workbench let alone work off one :D. I'm also not a CBF sponsor, if anything I'm trying to stick up for those who are but that appears to have been lost in translation somewhere.
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I would have never used OLS back in the day, however, when it’s costing £200 for a set of pads and gloves from even small brands I think it’s becoming a bit of a joke. Why would people pay double or triple the amount for the same pair of gloves with a different logo stitched on? It’s not exactly like bats where you are paying for the craftsmanship etc, all of the pads and gloves are pretty much made side by side in India! If anything I think OLS shows us how big the margins must be on some of these items. And before anyone says it I appreciate every company has overheads etc but when £100 for a pair of gloves comes the norm I think we’ve gone a bit too far!
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I am totally with @Neon Cricket and @SOULMAN1012 on their comments.
However, if people want to buy from Ajit, then the gamble you take for the price; is that it never turns up, turns up late, turns up damaged, or turns up as expected. Your call if you want to risk it and have absolutely ZERO chance of aftersales service.
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are you not covered by paypal if you use it to pay for your goods on onlinestockist?
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As someone from the continental side of Europe this discussion is going to be even wilder now post Brexit. When customs and toll from India can amount to about the same when importing from the UK. Especially with the lack of variaty and supply on the continent we are pretty much forced to look towards the subcontinent for our gear. Bats, softs, even balls have to be imported some way or the other.
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I've been pretty mild mannered on this forum to date. Tried to help where I can. But a couple of posts on this thread have annoyed me. Not annoyed me as much as our handling of COVID or the inequality of income distribution around the world. But annoyed me in comparison to the vast majority of stuff I've read on the forum. So here is my Jerry Maguire piece.
The next time there's a post with people complaining about the lack of interaction from sponsors, I'm just going to link back to this thread - this is exactly why people don't bother to sponsor or interact with the forum anymore, Online Stockist couldn't be further away from what "CBF" supposedly stands for (and I'm not a sponsor before anyone moans!)
I should probably add as I didn't really explain myself, I have no issue with OLS and totally appreciate they have a place in the market which many will utilise.
It's just CBF was supposed to be the "Custom Bats Forum". Championing British brands, especially those who make their bats from the raw cleft, whereas lately it just appears to be totally the opposite (and thus less input from the brands it was initially aimed at!).
@Neon Cricket, I would love to give you the benefit of the doubt on these. As you wrote later, maybe something has got lost in translation. But I can't I'm afraid. There just seems to be too much vitriol for it to be a question of wording.
Tom has already debunked that CBF is just for "British" companies. He helped set it up to open up discussion on crickets brands, not restrict it. I really value the breadth of brands on the forum. The fact that it includes also posts about training, management of club affairs, thoughts on international matches as well. It's interesting and useful.
Secondly, I think you have vastly misread your audience if you believe you'll get much empathy that forumites are to blame for sponsors, retail stockists and individual brands failing to interact because, for instance, there is an active discussion about an Indian supplier. A somewhat tricky position to defend when you, by your own admission, resell Indian supplied goods.
I'll now quote the last post on the thread that annoyed me and then wrap things together hopefully with a little useful advice.
Also worth noting that there are now a couple of others in Scott Cricket and Reaper that are really trying to offer some input and share pics of what they like me are offering and bar maybe one or two 1 line posts there isn’t 2 pages of comments or views or feedback like this can get about some gloves from OLS.
Hell iv had at least 5 who have messaged, sent pics argued about price, finally agreed or got beaten into submission and agreed a price and then never pay or reply again.
Catch 22 basically
I was involved in a discussion about cricket bags a couple of weeks ago. I pleaded for any suppliers on the forum to get involved in the discussion. The silence was deafening.
For a small, medium or even large business a forum like this can provide not only sales leads, but really valuable insight about what we are thinking about with our kit and our cricketing lives in general.
Take soups. Fresh soups, canned soups, vegetable soups, broths etc. Is there a soup drinkers forum? Not that I can find. So soup manufacturers get their information from sales analysis, analysis of their competitors' sales (if they can get it), market research, and product research. That all costs money. Actually quite a lot of money and probably too much for most small and medium sized businesses.
So Neon Cricket and Soulman, this forum can give you first hand research at the cost of some of your time, and even better quality research if you get involved and ask the right questions. So what, if we're discussing what an Indian supplier provides? Look at what we're purchasing and understand why. Read, listen, and think. Innovate and offer things that are not homogenous and come down to price. And that includes products, after sales service, pre sales service to name a couple. It might even get to a level of understanding where you accept that you can't compete on a particular product and no longer stock it. At least you won't be losing money on it.
Coming back to my plea on cricket bags, more members than I imagined said they were willing to spend a decent amount of money on a bag, but wanted it to last for longer than a season or two, and didn't care so much about platinum lined beer holders, or ocean fried shoe compartments. My particular gripe was zips on cricket bags. Something that for an extra £4 or so to get YKK versions, means the bag won't be useless after a season and, I'm pretty certain would be a winner with us, and a winner for you if you're quick to market.
Yes, it is tough to run your own business. The effort you have to put in just to keep afloat can be exhausting. Then a pandemic comes along and sales drop off. And to top it all off some of us customers can be a royal pain in the bottom. We can be demanding, uncertain, flighty and tight. But it is a buyers market unfortunately and you have to keep at it despite the setbacks. There is no easy money to be made right now. There will be, that's the way of the economic cycle. But not right now.
If it helps, think about the alternative - sitting in an office all day, with a tosspot of a boss, demanding to know why some dull spreadsheet hasn't been updated five minutes after they've asked and so stand behind you whilst you do it and offer the wisdom of their experience from 20 years ago.
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^ great post and I wholeheartedly agree.
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Having been here from start pretty much as was on cricket supplies forum
Yes this was set up for more free debate but please don’t go into why sponsors don’t post as much as been over 100 times by people with much more experience on here
I have no issue people pushing OLS or anyone as never had any interaction with them, the forum is a vastly different place now to when it started and is like night and day
I see this as a bit of a nursery for brands who grow from here and a place for them to try ideas some good some not so good but the sheer amount of time wasters has put most off interacting and that’s there choice also reasoned debate went out of window for a while which took the fun away and needed admin to clamp down lead by buzz the merciless
The forum is what it is now a good source of information odd debate and place to get cheap goods. Just enjoy for what it is.
Until Bruce starts drinking again then fun can begin
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That can be arranged - but some subject matter has been ruthlessly supressed on here by ham-fisted censorship recently, so the desire for knob gags has waned.
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Oh and @stamper - really good, interesting post. You managed to be both brilliantly articulate and massively patronising at the same time.
Well done :)
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I've been pretty mild mannered on this forum to date. Tried to help where I can. But a couple of posts on this thread have annoyed me. Not annoyed me as much as our handling of COVID or the inequality of income distribution around the world. But annoyed me in comparison to the vast majority of stuff I've read on the forum. So here is my Jerry Maguire piece.
@Neon Cricket, I would love to give you the benefit of the doubt on these. As you wrote later, maybe something has got lost in translation. But I can't I'm afraid. There just seems to be too much vitriol for it to be a question of wording.
Tom has already debunked that CBF is just for "British" companies. He helped set it up to open up discussion on crickets brands, not restrict it. I really value the breadth of brands on the forum. The fact that it includes also posts about training, management of club affairs, thoughts on international matches as well. It's interesting and useful.
Secondly, I think you have vastly misread your audience if you believe you'll get much empathy that forumites are to blame for sponsors, retail stockists and individual brands failing to interact because, for instance, there is an active discussion about an Indian supplier. A somewhat tricky position to defend when you, by your own admission, resell Indian supplied goods.
I'll now quote the last post on the thread that annoyed me and then wrap things together hopefully with a little useful advice.
I was involved in a discussion about cricket bags a couple of weeks ago. I pleaded for any suppliers on the forum to get involved in the discussion. The silence was deafening.
For a small, medium or even large business a forum like this can provide not only sales leads, but really valuable insight about what we are thinking about with our kit and our cricketing lives in general.
Take soups. Fresh soups, canned soups, vegetable soups, broths etc. Is there a soup drinkers forum? Not that I can find. So soup manufacturers get their information from sales analysis, analysis of their competitors' sales (if they can get it), market research, and product research. That all costs money. Actually quite a lot of money and probably too much for most small and medium sized businesses.
So Neon Cricket and Soulman, this forum can give you first hand research at the cost of some of your time, and even better quality research if you get involved and ask the right questions. So what, if we're discussing what an Indian supplier provides? Look at what we're purchasing and understand why. Read, listen, and think. Innovate and offer things that are not homogenous and come down to price. And that includes products, after sales service, pre sales service to name a couple. It might even get to a level of understanding where you accept that you can't compete on a particular product and no longer stock it. At least you won't be losing money on it.
Coming back to my plea on cricket bags, more members than I imagined said they were willing to spend a decent amount of money on a bag, but wanted it to last for longer than a season or two, and didn't care so much about platinum lined beer holders, or ocean fried shoe compartments. My particular gripe was zips on cricket bags. Something that for an extra £4 or so to get YKK versions, means the bag won't be useless after a season and, I'm pretty certain would be a winner with us, and a winner for you if you're quick to market.
Yes, it is tough to run your own business. The effort you have to put in just to keep afloat can be exhausting. Then a pandemic comes along and sales drop off. And to top it all off some of us customers can be a royal pain in the bottom. We can be demanding, uncertain, flighty and tight. But it is a buyers market unfortunately and you have to keep at it despite the setbacks. There is no easy money to be made right now. There will be, that's the way of the economic cycle. But not right now.
If it helps, think about the alternative - sitting in an office all day, with a tosspot of a boss, demanding to know why some dull spreadsheet hasn't been updated five minutes after they've asked and so stand behind you whilst you do it and offer the wisdom of their experience from 20 years ago.
i've not been on here very long so do not have much experience of the excellent posts that have come before i joined - but this should be up there with the best ever - well reasoned, shows someone who really cares, does not allow 'certain groups to bully an arguement'
@stamper i applaud your honesty and stance - well done!!!!
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Personally , I am totally torn on all this. On The one hand I always want to support British Makers (so I personally now use RPC kit and spent silly amounts each year) but..... the prices are ridiculous in the UK. OLS provides essentially the same product but for 25 quid a pop.
Maybe, maybe not possible for a british company to do but it's probably a massive hole in the market here. However, most standard players will always buy GM, GN, Kook irrespective anyway so the market just isn't as large as people think.
I go through 10-12 pairs of OLS a year with netting and there is no way I could afford that (well, justify the spend), if I had to buy british (sure, you can buy lower end spec but I put the machine on quite quick so need to trust the protection).
The forum is a nice place to come speak about ALL things cricket. Sure, I totally disagree with most people on here over White ball but still... nice place to come see different views and remind ourselves there are other view points out there
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Have to agree that there is room for both retailers like OLS and the smaller brands. If I want something to last I don't mind spending more to know I've got a quality product and will get top customer service (every bat I've got is from a UK maker for example and I've yet to be let down on the customer service aspect).
On the other hand, things that I know are going to get torn, ripped, dirty or worn out (gloves for nets mainly) then it's difficult to justify as large an outlay as £70 when I know that I don't really need the top level protection on offer against medium pace dibbly dobblers.
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Very interesting debate & gone in a direction I never expected but all remained civil & reasoned.
This is forum at its best, we do not have to all agree (nor should we) but can leave the vitriolic & partisan nastiness to the Twitterati
I own nothing but blank softs - mainly because I can use any bat without setting off my OCD
If I was to guess I’d say 4 pairs of pads & 6/7 pairs of gloves
Mostly different styles & designs and many clearly then gone on to be personalised and sold by U.K. brands
I prefer them blank but understand if I want a brand name of my choice on it I have to pay a higher price... like all products.
I don’t use OLS but not a conscious decision I reckon you can still find a fair few bargains in the U.K. & I always dread “small men’s” sizing turning up & no way to return them
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Well isn't this fun!
When's the next CBF syndicate order from OLS to save a few quid on postage?
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I've been pretty mild mannered on this forum to date. Tried to help where I can. But a couple of posts on this thread have annoyed me. Not annoyed me as much as our handling of COVID or the inequality of income distribution around the world. But annoyed me in comparison to the vast majority of stuff I've read on the forum. So here is my Jerry Maguire piece.
@Neon Cricket, I would love to give you the benefit of the doubt on these. As you wrote later, maybe something has got lost in translation. But I can't I'm afraid. There just seems to be too much vitriol for it to be a question of wording.
Tom has already debunked that CBF is just for "British" companies. He helped set it up to open up discussion on crickets brands, not restrict it. I really value the breadth of brands on the forum. The fact that it includes also posts about training, management of club affairs, thoughts on international matches as well. It's interesting and useful.
Secondly, I think you have vastly misread your audience if you believe you'll get much empathy that forumites are to blame for sponsors, retail stockists and individual brands failing to interact because, for instance, there is an active discussion about an Indian supplier. A somewhat tricky position to defend when you, by your own admission, resell Indian supplied goods.
I'll now quote the last post on the thread that annoyed me and then wrap things together hopefully with a little useful advice.
I was involved in a discussion about cricket bags a couple of weeks ago. I pleaded for any suppliers on the forum to get involved in the discussion. The silence was deafening.
For a small, medium or even large business a forum like this can provide not only sales leads, but really valuable insight about what we are thinking about with our kit and our cricketing lives in general.
Take soups. Fresh soups, canned soups, vegetable soups, broths etc. Is there a soup drinkers forum? Not that I can find. So soup manufacturers get their information from sales analysis, analysis of their competitors' sales (if they can get it), market research, and product research. That all costs money. Actually quite a lot of money and probably too much for most small and medium sized businesses.
So Neon Cricket and Soulman, this forum can give you first hand research at the cost of some of your time, and even better quality research if you get involved and ask the right questions. So what, if we're discussing what an Indian supplier provides? Look at what we're purchasing and understand why. Read, listen, and think. Innovate and offer things that are not homogenous and come down to price. And that includes products, after sales service, pre sales service to name a couple. It might even get to a level of understanding where you accept that you can't compete on a particular product and no longer stock it. At least you won't be losing money on it.
Coming back to my plea on cricket bags, more members than I imagined said they were willing to spend a decent amount of money on a bag, but wanted it to last for longer than a season or two, and didn't care so much about platinum lined beer holders, or ocean fried shoe compartments. My particular gripe was zips on cricket bags. Something that for an extra £4 or so to get YKK versions, means the bag won't be useless after a season and, I'm pretty certain would be a winner with us, and a winner for you if you're quick to market.
Yes, it is tough to run your own business. The effort you have to put in just to keep afloat can be exhausting. Then a pandemic comes along and sales drop off. And to top it all off some of us customers can be a royal pain in the bottom. We can be demanding, uncertain, flighty and tight. But it is a buyers market unfortunately and you have to keep at it despite the setbacks. There is no easy money to be made right now. There will be, that's the way of the economic cycle. But not right now.
If it helps, think about the alternative - sitting in an office all day, with a tosspot of a boss, demanding to know why some dull spreadsheet hasn't been updated five minutes after they've asked and so stand behind you whilst you do it and offer the wisdom of their experience from 20 years ago.
@stamper I have to say I agree with fattus in that this comes across as sanctimonious and condescending - whether that was the intention or not.
However, with that said, I will preface my response by saying I do agree with a decent amount of what you said and it was an articulate response.
Now, onto what I dont agree with:
For a small, medium or even large business a forum like this can provide not only sales leads, but really valuable insight about what we are thinking about with our kit and our cricketing lives in general.
Take soups. Fresh soups, canned soups, vegetable soups, broths etc. Is there a soup drinkers forum? Not that I can find. So soup manufacturers get their information from sales analysis, analysis of their competitors' sales (if they can get it), market research, and product research. That all costs money. Actually quite a lot of money and probably too much for most small and medium sized businesses.
This forum is very blatantly not a representative microcosm of the wider industry, your argument outlining how Neon/Soulman's responses are incorrect, and then likening the industry to soups is a stretch at best. I actually work for a B2B data company that provide the exact sort of data you were mentioning to retailers, and believe me, it is our job to ensure that the data is as representative of the market as possible. This forum, is as aforementioned, categorically not representative of a wider audience; while it can provide valuable insights and sales leads, it can also, as others have said, generate a number of 'tyre kickers' that never have any intention of buying anything.
The reason threads like this detract from the sponsors is because these companies have no interest in this forum for the highlighted reason above. However members on here will champion these companies to save a few quid on grey imports, whilst expecting forum sponsors to justify their prices to the nth degree, as well as send them pictures of pad weights/glove weights/bats/clefts/etc.
Secondly, I think you have vastly misread your audience if you believe you'll get much empathy that forumites are to blame for sponsors, retail stockists and individual brands failing to interact because, for instance, there is an active discussion about an Indian supplier. A somewhat tricky position to defend when you, by your own admission, resell Indian supplied goods.
This is somewhat disingenuous to suggest that Neon were suggesting the reason this thread (and others of its kind) push sponsors away is because you are discussing an 'Indian' supplier. He was suggesting (in my opinion) that this thread - that appears to push business away from the forum to a non sponsor fails to incentivise sponsorship, especially when you have a double standard of expectations from sponsors vs. non sponsors as I highlighted above.
The fact that Neon/Soulman/whoever import certain products, rebrand, and then sell on is not really part of this debate. I know for an absolute fact that Adam @ Neon will have customised his pads and gloves to be different in all the subtle ways that no one thinks about, and that all costs money. His pads, for example, are most definitely not available anywhere else, you might get similar, very similar in fact, but certainly not identical. Couple this in, with the fact that any UK resellers could now very well have to pay 3 k minimum to have gloves and pads, in 1 model, 1 size and both dexterities available to sell due to kitemark testing, along with the shipping, the import rates, and also the aftercare service that they need to be prepared to give, and suddenly they are fighting not only an uphill battle against grey importers, but more of a mountainous struggle to be competitive on price.
Innovate and offer things that are not homogenous and come down to price. And that includes products, after sales service, pre sales service to name a couple. It might even get to a level of understanding where you accept that you can't compete on a particular product and no longer stock it. At least you won't be losing money on it.
This quote particularly highlights a lack of understanding on your part in this topic. As I stated above, Neon's softs are frankly not homogenous, and as I mentioned, do not exist other than from Adam. Your 'advice' is to simply 'stop stocking them' if you cannot compete, but I put it to you, that a lack of a softs range for example, would astronomically impact a brand. People do not want to just buy bats from people anymore, especially when there are some many 'boutique' brands that operate with shoddy standards. People are far less inclined to buy a bat from Joe Bloggs that he made in his back garden when the company that he represents does not have a market presence in all facets of the industry - yes the market is showing this. People want to buy full kit, or they want to just buy softs because 'bats are cheaper in India/Pakistan/eBay' and also because as aforementioned, having a market presence in softs/luggage/clothing etc gives the consumer trust in the brand. So yes, simplistically - stop stocking the product if you cant compete with X, but that fails to understand the nuances of consumerism and also fails to understand that there is a clear connection between losing sales in one area, and losing sales in others.
I will close by saying, that I wholeheartedly agree that a discussion around brands, both on and off of the forum is healthy, and the more breadth of brands that we get on here, the better for the consumer. However, I would say, as Harper Lee once said; 'Don't judge a man, until you've walked a mile in his shoes'. You must understand that making this forum consumer-centric will clearly drive suppliers away, while making it 'brand-centric' will drive consumers away.
No one wants to be in an echo chamber on here, however, there is a balance to be struck between alienating potentially great suppliers, and also going too far the other way.
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a post like that does not promote diverse opinion - it sparkes of don't have a go at my mate......
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a post like that does not promote diverse opinion - it sparkes of don't have a go at my mate......
A post that is well reasoned and provides valid counter arguments to points made earlier? If you don't agree with what I said - I am not going to take it personally, but I am at a loss when it comes to your assertion that my post did not encourage diverse opinion.
You are essentially suggesting that I am not allowed to defend a brand with well reasoned counter arguments because I have a personal friendship with the owner; and if I do defend them, then I am preventing free speech - the irony certainly isn’t lost on me either.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, and equally part of 'healthy discussion' is being able to listen to the opinions of others, the above post is my opinion and is grounded in fact, - if that stymies healthy discussion then we have all been doing it wrong for the last however many years.
Could you please tell me specifically which part doesn't promote healthy diverse discussion?
@More Glue Than Wood
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a post like that does not promote diverse opinion - it sparkes of don't have a go at my mate......
Just the ref record I don’t actually know either of the guys that run Neon or Reaper cricket but I totally agree with the points they are trying to make. The comment form @stamper by and large is a very good, thoughtful response but it doesn’t support the fact that those of us that are trying to bring new brands to the market and those that have spent a lot of time on the forum are right in the bat they say about sponsor interaction.
The forum is in my opinion of now making bats for a year not in the slightest way a good gauge of the open market. As of yet I have not had someone specify a weight to the fondue at detail, demand a handle with an exact specific dimension, try and barter on the price, demand pictures of multiple clefts and then go totally quite. The fact seems to be that outside the forum people either like your prices or your design and that’s about it really.
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you can do and say what you want as can i - my opinion is that you sound like you are defending a mate - didn't know you were mates with Neon - i've not been here that long so how would i know???
the point is that you came over as not being objective - you are being subjective - would your opinion be different if Neon had not made the comments and it had been someone else??? only you know that answer
i am making a subjective opinion, you come accross as trying to make something subjective sound objective by saying Neon does this and that - it is classic whataboutery - which some will agree with and some will not (most will not give a monkeys....)
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Just the ref record I don’t actually know either of the guys that run Neon or Reaper cricket but I totally agree with the points they are trying to make. The comment form @stamper by and large is a very good, thoughtful response but it doesn’t support the fact that those of us that are trying to bring new brands to the market and those that have spent a lot of time on the forum are right in the bat they say about sponsor interaction.
The forum is in my opinion of now making bats for a year not in the slightest way a good gauge of the open market. As of yet I have not had someone specify a weight to the fondue at detail, demand a handle with an exact specific dimension, try and barter on the price, demand pictures of multiple clefts and then go totally quite. The fact seems to be that outside the forum people either like your prices or your design and that’s about it really.
i can totally understand this point of view and agree with pretty much everything said - nothing was meant against anyones right to have an opinion - it was just an issue where i felt some people were being more subjective than objective
i apologise to all if i have offended anyone with my comment about that previous extended comment, it just sounded more subjective than objective to me
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I have to say this on the subject..
As a sponsor when I was with B3 I used to hate small brands under cutting us on us especially as we had overheads more than they did but understood basic business.
Now the smaller brands are charging as much if not more than big brands without overheads.
Funnily enough I buy kit from all any anybody but as somebody said if there a pair of gloves for 30 pound when another sells them for 80 I know where i'm going.
I remember not too long ago you could see Ryan in Sharlston and get a top whack Grade 1 for £150 quid oh the days ......
everybody making money of course they have to, but overheads are factored in my buying when I buy sorry I've been involved in the industry and I know people are not always aware of returns and what not and overheads.
End of the day I buy from Online Stockiest and I buy for UK companies like Chase and Others and have friends in the Industry who always tell me to support British.
This forum is about all equipment and if some guy wants a pair of SG gloves which last time I looked you couldn't get into UK then is that against the forum because he said they were good and he had good service.
My issue is Big brand moaned about bedroom brands then bedroom brands upped there price so people looked for cheeper and then that option of Online Stockiest is vaible
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Ah CBF.
Never purchased anything from aforementioned retailer. Had a friend who wanted to be a GM FKW after purchasing a Chroma and having an unhealthy obsession with Aiden Markram. He managed to pick up pads, and two pairs of gloves for the price of a set of pads over here, all delivered within 9 days I think. Great service that unfortunately someone with tight purse strings couldn’t be taken away from.
Personally, like the custom made aspect I can get from UK bat makers and prefer being a FKW so leads me to a English company. Particularly with bats, the ability to twerk and the aftersales service is what keeps me going back. Shame I don’t think there any makers NW based.
It’s not that I think it’s okay, and fully appreciate it is different for you makers but I thought the whole time wasting sales thing, just came as part of the CBF joys 😅
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Particularly with bats, the ability to twerk and the aftersales service is what keeps me going back.
Do they charge extra for this or have I been missing out on that particular service? 😅
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Haha damn autocorrect. Must be the difference in the finishing between brands though 🤣
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Special offer from me....free twerk with every bat! 😆
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I'm sorry that my overly long post was interpreted by a few as patronising, sanctimonious and condescending. I've re-read it with a critical eye and can't honestly see it myself, but then I'm the author. This forum is a great place with some great members (and the odd great big member!) and would be all the better for brands of all types, from all places interacting with us.
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I'm sorry that my overly long post was interpreted by a few as patronising, sanctimonious and condescending. I've re-read it with a critical eye and can't honestly see it myself, but then I'm the author. This forum is a great place with some great members (and the odd great big member!) and would be all the better for brands of all types, from all places interacting with us.
I think we can all agree on the last part mate!
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I can see it from both sides. As a new small brand who has brought softs in recently, I can safely say there is no way you could sell these for £30 and still make any profit.....unless I'm being grossly overcharged. So saying you could try to compete at that level is quite frankly ridiculous.
Also to say all softs are the same isn't true. I've had samples from various suppliers, some are very poor and I wouldn't have been happy using them let alone putting my name to them. I've also seen some cheaper softs from brands on FB etc and can see the materials used are different in terms of quality, so suppose you pays your money.
I tweaked quite a few things in my designs and took care and attention to create a product I was happy with and I know others do the same. It's not about making huge sums of cash but we all have overheads and are all trying to create a business, providing quality kit, bats or whatever. This takes investment and hard work, but if it's just a matter of getting the cheapist kit then that's not a market you can compete in and build anything on.
As others do, I also hopefully offer more with my bats than just an off the shelf solution, to try to give maximum value and something different. Not many larger makers send x number of pictures of clefts, pictures throughout the process, will reply to 40 messages on specs etc etc, as it's just not sustainable....especially at CBF levels! 😂
Ultimately I have no issue with people buying abroad, it's a consumers right to purchase from who they like. They will always be people, both on the forum and elsewhere, who will want more than just a cheap set of softs and that's great. I've had orders from people who could have gone anywhere, but really thought it important to support a new, independent, local company and be part of their journey. Which ultimately is the only way anyone new to the industry will survive, from this kind of support. Surely a thriving UK batmaking industry is what we all want at the end of the day, which is thankfully still a consideration for many when choosing where to spend their money.
However, as I said that's not a dig away anyone who doesn't. We all have as choice, differing budgets and considerations.
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I can see it from both sides. As a new small brand who has brought softs in recently, I can safely say there is no way you could sell these for £30 and still make any profit.....unless I'm being grossly overcharged. So saying you could try to compete at that level is quite frankly ridiculous.
Also to say all softs are the same isn't true. I've had samples from various suppliers, some are very poor and I wouldn't have been happy using them let alone putting my name to them. I've also seen some cheaper softs from brands on FB etc and can see the materials used are different in terms of quality, so suppose you pays your money.
I tweaked quite a few things in my designs and took care and attention to create a product I was happy with and I know others do the same. It's not about making huge sums of cash but we all have overheads and are all trying to create a business, providing quality kit, bats or whatever. This takes investment and hard work, but if it's just a matter of getting the cheapist kit then that's not a market you can compete in and build anything on.
As others do, I also hopefully offer more with my bats than just an off the shelf solution, to try to give maximum value and something different. Not many larger makers send x number of pictures of clefts, pictures throughout the process, will reply to 40 messages on specs etc etc, as it's just not sustainable....especially at CBF levels! 😂
Ultimately I have no issue with people buying abroad, it's a consumers right to purchase from who they like. They will always be people, both on the forum and elsewhere, who will want more than just a cheap set of softs and that's great. I've had orders from people who could have gone anywhere, but really thought it important to support a new, independent, local company and be part of their journey. Which ultimately is the only way anyone new to the industry will survive, from this kind of support. Surely a thriving UK batmaking industry is what we all want at the end of the day, which is thankfully still a consideration for many when choosing where to spend their money.
However, as I said that's not a dig away anyone who doesn't. We all have as choice, differing budgets and considerations.
And thats why i respect the independent bat maker on here one thing learning your great craft another anwsering the countless messages and emails spending day weeks on pictures sizes and what not and then losing a sale...
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My personal beef is when people say BUY BRITISH. To sell their own products people use this buy British slogan. But in reality how many of us are actually buying British product. Look at food we eat cars we drive clothes we wear and lot more other stuff that we use day in day out are they all British products. Not really.
So it's time we stop with this non sense and buy and let buy what suits you and your pockets.
To me buying British slogan sounds selfish and racist than loyalty/patriotism.
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My personal beef is when people say BUY BRITISH. To sell their own products people use this buy British slogan. But in reality how many of us are actually buying British product. Look at food we eat cars we drive clothes we wear and lot more other stuff that we use day in day out are they all British products. Not really.
So it's time we stop with this non sense and buy and let buy what suits you and your pockets.
To me buying British slogan sounds selfish and racist than loyalty/patriotism.
Fair enough if that’s the connotations you take from it.
I don’t think it’s use is intended in that way however.
I do totally agree that you should cut your cloth accordingly and buy what suits your budget.
My one observation would be that if you buy local (note - local, and not necessarily British) you will get better after sales and better customer service.
If you live in India, and you visit your local factory in jalandahar or wherever, the likelihood is that you will get good service as you can visit and if there is a problem, you can likely get it sorted.
However, if you import into the grey market, you do not have that luxury.
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Yeah not sure I agree with that part. Its just encouraging people to support UK manufacturing and business where possible to benefit them, nothing racist in that imo but can see why you many think that.
As I said, it's really meant a lot to me when people have said they've bought from me as they have wanted to support my new little venture, rather than going to the big boys or overseas. It's more about that in my opinion, rather than having anything against buying from another country.
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The one that is maybe overlooked a bit is those who advocate for buying British from an environmental standpoint. Realistically, the carbon footprint on an English willow bat made in India is going to be exponentially higher than that of one made in the UK and for some that's a big consideration these days.
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The one that is maybe overlooked a bit is those who advocate for buying British from an environmental standpoint. Realistically, the carbon footprint on an English willow bat made in India is going to be exponentially higher than that of one made in the UK and for some that's a big consideration these days.
See that'd be a fantastic tagline for a bat made in England! If it's however made in India and rebranded as an english brand bat then you might as well skip the middlesman and buy it from an Indian retailer.
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“Buy British” (after we have imported the goods from India)
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“Buy British” (after we have imported the goods from India)
[Designed in Yorkshire|Made in Meerut]
- Product of the Commonwealth -
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Has this turned political it a bloody cricket bat forum wind it in