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General Cricket => Players => Topic started by: thegowerwaft on September 26, 2021, 09:36:16 PM
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Moeen Ali retires from test cricket.
https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/sep/26/englands-moeen-ali-to-retire-from-test-cricket-and-focus-on-white-ball-format (https://www.theguardian.com/sport/2021/sep/26/englands-moeen-ali-to-retire-from-test-cricket-and-focus-on-white-ball-format)
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Hopefully means Leach finally gets a run as the test spinner, no doubt they'll find some way to engineer Bess a way back instead. Fair play to Mo, seems like a phenomenal guy and while he wasn't always the most consistent he had some real moments of magic in an England test shirt.
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Sad to hear. Comes across as a genuine down to earth guy who came from a background that meant he really had to fight to make a career in the game. I don't think England treated him at all well over the last couple of years
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Hopefully means Leach finally gets a run as the test spinner, no doubt they'll find some way to engineer Bess a way back instead. Fair play to Mo, seems like a phenomenal guy and while he wasn't always the most consistent he had some real moments of magic in an England test shirt.
That ball to Kohli is right up there. Some classic dismissals.
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That ball to Kohli is right up there. Some classic dismissals.
That was a beauty. Hattrick versus the Saffers is always the one that springs to mind for me.
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a shame to end it with things he still wanted to achieve - always happy to do what others didn't want to and always gave his best - would have loved him to have been slotted in at 5 for a long time - was as graceful as Gower when in full flight - always felt England wanted him to be a front line spinner when he wasn't and that his ability with the bat has been wasted
hopefully we will go for Leach in the future
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Yes on the cards thou that he would concentrate on white ball.
It was a mixed bag I think, never thought he was the best spinner we had but always played in that role.
If you read his article in the guardian there’s clearly some regret how he was handled and shunted up and down the positions.
Only Underwood and Swann have more wickets as a spinner and that you cannot argue really is anything less than very good.
Add in some vital runs from number 7 or 8 and he done a good job.
Also one of the most likeable England cricketers in recent times.
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Very capable batsman and bowler..under utilised by England IMO. At least this avoids any confusion for England in terms of picking the right spinner
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A bit sad he didn’t get up to 200 test wickets, but he had a good run in test cricket.
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Moeen's unwillingness to change his batting approach regardless of the situation always made him a liability in tests. He says that he could have batted like Stokes if given the chance, but I cannot remember one innings where he actually took the responsibility of buckle down and put the shots aways when the situation demanded it. As a bowler, he is a good spinner but I wouldnt really pick him as by lead spinner. He could have done well if he had been a part of the team when England had a really strong and reliable top order. White ball cricket is his area of expertise and it makes sense for him to focus on it.
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His batting approach was rather typical of the majority of players you find batting 6-8 when you look around most test sides. When he came into the side i always thought he would end up a top 5 bat. Really easy on the eye when he gets going, unfortunately prone to the odd lapse in concentration. As a bowler, i dont think you'd ever say he was world class (defining world class as top 2-3 in the world) with the red ball but capable of doing a job when asked and had some real moments of magic. When you look back at his career and compare to other english spinners he is still one of the best we have produced.
As a side note, Leach has done nothing to justify a test selection this summer. On form he should be no where near the test side. Not like hes young either, at 30 years old you cant argue you are developing him and he will come good eventually.
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As a side note, Leach has done nothing to justify a test selection this summer. On form he should be no where near the test side. Not like hes young either, at 30 years old you cant argue you are developing him and he will come good eventually.
Poor Jack Leach. Takes his test wickets at a near identical average, strike rate and economy to Graeme Swann and took more than double the wickets of England's next best bowler in the last series he played and apparently still deserves to be dropped!
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Poor Jack Leach. Takes his test wickets at a near identical average, strike rate and economy to Graeme Swann and took more than double the wickets of England's next best bowler in the last series he played and apparently still deserves to be dropped!
The 18 wickets he took in 14 innings in the county championship this year at an average of 31 really set him apart. Brilliant form.
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whilst 18 wickets at 31 is not brilliant - it is hardly rubbish either
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If England have identified him as their pick for the choice spinner, he at least deserves a chance to show what he can do. He isnt brilliant but he persists with his lines and keeps things tight.
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whilst 18 wickets at 31 is not brilliant - it is hardly rubbish either
Without the context of conditions ect its hard to judge based just off stats. However the way some people talk about him on this forum you would think hes the second coming of Swann. Considering his age and the fact hes not exactly ripping up trees in the county game id like to see us go younger.
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Without the context of conditions ect its hard to judge based just off stats. However the way some people talk about him on this forum you would think hes the second coming of Swann. Considering his age and the fact hes not exactly ripping up trees in the county game id like to see us go younger.
agree - unfortunately like with the batting we don't have a spinner tearing it up in county cricket - and the england selectors will care more about their batting and fielding than whether they can bowl anyway :D :D
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Leach has been in and around most squads from the last 18 months and hardly played, extra cover for Covid plus a healthy dose of mis management by England means he has only been released for very few games for his County.
I doubt he even knows what form he is in good or bad he has hardly played.
There’s a right load of toilet written on this forum sometimes, fair enough we all debate who should play and who is the best spinner but to say he should be dropped for bad form is just nonsense-he doesn’t have any form.
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whilst 18 wickets at 31 is not brilliant - it is hardly rubbish either
Interested to know how his economy rate was. That was a big part of Mo's game that always frustrated, could not tie down an end to save his life.
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Ali probably played ahead of Leach this summer because the tail was long with the unavailability of Stokes and Woakes?
I liked Moeen Ali but him being England 3rd highest spin- bowling wicket-taker of all-time owes a lot to him playing in an era when there was often literally no alternative.
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The 18 wickets he took in 14 innings in the county championship this year at an average of 31 really set him apart. Brilliant form.
I think there is an under appreciation of just how ill he was two winters ago. His form this summer hasn't at justified selection and on pitches where India have left out a spinner with 400 test wickets, it is hardly a surprise England went for a batting option
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Interested to know how his economy rate was. That was a big part of Mo's game that always frustrated, could not tie down an end to save his life.
Leach's test economy rate is 3.01 vs Mooen's 3.61. In first class games that is 2.7 -> 3.53.
Leach's test strike rate is 59.7 vs Moeen's 60.7. In first class games that is 58.7 -> 64.3.
He takes wickets faster and concedes fewer runs. Granted Leach has probably on average played on more spinner friendly wickets than Mooen who has played a much higher proportion of his tests at home and clearly a higher proportion of his FC games not at Taunton.
As for the comment that at 30 Leach is too old to be trusted and we should focus on someone younger.. Herath played 14 tests before the age of 30 and ended up with 433 test wickets (398 over the age of 30).
I am not saying Leach is a world beater, but he is currently the most experienced test spinner and best FC spinner we have, has never disgraced himself and deserves a chance to develop with a settled role in the side. Maybe in time we will be able to afford to pick Crane or Parkinson as a luxury pick and allow them to prove themselves, but with no stokes adding seam bowling depth to the middle order we need someone who can hold up an end and pick up wickets when the conditions suit - Leach deserves that chance IMO.
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Leach isn't a complete mug with the bat either. No, he's not an all-rounder but is he any less likely than Curran/Broad/Wood to put on a partnership with someone?
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Leach has been in and around most squads from the last 18 months and hardly played, extra cover for Covid plus a healthy dose of mis management by England means he has only been released for very few games for his County.
I doubt he even knows what form he is in good or bad he has hardly played.
There’s a right load of toilet written on this forum sometimes, fair enough we all debate who should play and who is the best spinner but to say he should be dropped for bad form is just nonsense-he doesn’t have any form.
He played 10 games. Its a big enough sample size to say hes not in form. Now its hard to justify taking a new spinner to Aus, would be like taking a lamb to slaughter but Leach isnt the long term answer. To be frank hes most likely going to have a torrid time on tour, im fairly certain any spinner we take will. The best in the world have gone there and struggled. At least that will mean we get to see some new blood in the summer next year. We wont win anything with out current batting line up so we we might as well use this time we arent competitive to get a good look at our spin options.
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Ali probably played ahead of Leach this summer because the tail was long with the unavailability of Stokes and Woakes?
I liked Moeen Ali but him being England 3rd highest spin- bowling wicket-taker of all-time owes a lot to him playing in an era when there was often literally no alternative.
John Emburey was chosen for the same number of Tests, for fewer wickets, at a cost of 2 more runs per wicket. He was a spin bowler by trade and chosen ahead of other viable alternatives.
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John Emburey was chosen for the same number of Tests, for fewer wickets, at a cost of 2 more runs per wicket. He was a spin bowler by trade and chosen ahead of other viable alternatives.
Interesting. Thanks for pointing this out.
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If you then go back through Panesar, Giles, Tufnell and Edmonds, you realise that it’s only been Swann since Underwood that has had a significantly better record statistically.