Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: Buzz on February 25, 2022, 10:22:58 AM
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I thought it would be interesting to see which bat shapes people are liking at the moment and who is making them?
I appreciate this may turn into a which firm has the best social media account... But still!
I really like the shapes the WCW bats are at the moment.
I think that is because I like the camber they are using on their press as well as the shapes and the toe shape.
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@Northern monkey at Oxfordshire makes some absolutely lovely shapes, always look really smooth and flow nicely, plus the Laver-esque toe on mine is a thing of beauty. On pure aesthetics, gets my vote.
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Personally love all the shapes I have seen from Scott cricket bats
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@Northern monkey at Oxfordshire makes some absolutely lovely shapes, always look really smooth and flow nicely, plus the Laver-esque toe on mine is a thing of beauty. On pure aesthetics, gets my vote.
Cheers, means a lot that Jimbo
Shape wise,,,most seem pretty similar at the moment, I presume due to the bat reg restrictions, which are ridiculous.
I’m still favouring the kohli ish shape/profile where possible, with a laver toe, which I love.
I’ve also started to move the peak spine slightly up the blade to help pick up,,,being based in Oxfordshire the wickets are low slow tracks, so I need to take that in to account when shaping bats for local players..
Be interesting to hear people’s thoughts on shapes/profiles
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Personally love all the shapes I have seen from Scott cricket bats
Jonny does also make some very nice shapes, does the more modern-looking profiles really well - big edges, semi-flat toe, nice balance and lot of meat in the hitting area.
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Big fan of the SS players and top of the line bats I see.
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The GN Players shapes are pretty nice.
Most companies Players shapes are pretty good it's just what weight can us average punters get them in that matters.
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Not enough funky shapes around at the moment IMHO
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I would definitely like to see more interesting/unique shapes. With the bat restrictions now it makes them a lot harder to make though.
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Yeah, isn’t everyone basically making the same shapes, or variations of. Can’t remember the last bat I actually though of as ‘new’.
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Thanks @Jimbo and @King pair, really appreciate that. Great to hear that I'm doing something right! 😁
I hear what people are saying about new or funky shapes, but anything is possible if you go to an independent batmaker and tell them what you want. I've made copies of old bats, variations of traditional profiles and various other custom shapes (last week i made a bat for someone which was 94cm long!).
However, these are on request as funky shapes are by their nature pretty niche and tend not to have mass market appeal. No point bringing out a stock shape which is 'funky' and interesting, yet will only sell in low numbers. As i said tho, that's the beauty of getting a custom bat made
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Some lovely sticks on show but I can’t get my thought process away from the old school Newbery Mjolnir shape. A bat from my childhood that whenever I held it it felt right!! Any forum bat makers have one of those to copy?
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Some lovely sticks on show but I can’t get my thought process away from the old school Newbery Mjolnir shape. A bat from my childhood that whenever I held it it felt right!! Any forum bat makers have one of those to copy?
@Giraffe208 I would highly recommend going to Robert Pack Cricket if you want a proper traditional profiled bat - or go for the Warsop Platinum. The reason why the traditional Mjolnir/Ballistic/JM Classic/Purist bats aren't readily available mainstream is because of the changes to a less rounded face and also because folks want big edges. Get a round faced traditional profiled bat with a good thickness handle, and you'll have that strength in the join, coupled with a really good balanced blade due to the wood being placed centrally and distributed evenly up and down the blade. You can't beat that.
Profiles are a funny one - I do find that stock shapes are kind of becoming a little more uniform across brands these days. Although people say the gauge has limited the profiles we see these days - has it really? Look at all the old Slazenger shapes, and how they had funny grooves, proper duckbilling etc. Only thing we see anywhere near this level of funkiness is Rashid's Camel bat - which really is incredible. I'd actually argue that it is because players all generally use a very similar shape, that the public will naturally want to use something that resembles what the pros are using.
I find Instagram so deceptive for profiles - specific angles accentuate certain features etc. Also, having a really nice set of stickers does help massively with selling bats - despite what folks say about ignoring the stickers. I think WCW have some of the best stickers for example - but I don't actually see much variety from them, just the duckbill convex mid profile. This could purely be because of Instagram angles, but could also just be because this is the shape that sells most for them.
I'm incredibly greedy, a bat glutton, so I have many profiles that I think just work. I'm gonna exclude any Players Grade stuff or any custom shapes - in terms of stock profiles that do spark interest that I've physically seen...
- Scott - JS 170/175 - Profile just makes sense, puts the meat of the bat exactly where you want, with some concaving to keep the weight down and improve the balance, while maintaining a high spine and thick edge.
- GN Aus - Cobra - Beautiful high spine throughout the bat and running into the toe, with a small amount of concaving
- Warsop - Platinum - Traditional profile with the rounded face, and a thick oval handle. Strokemaker's dream.
- Keeley - WORX 017 with a rounded face - High spine, mid middle, some concaving and the spine running into the toe. Interesting profile that marries what feels like a relic of the past with modern features.
- B3 - Solum - Beautiful profile with that lower swell, and plenty of power in the blade
- GM - Prima - Again with the spine flowing throughout the profile and a more modest edge with a thick shoulder - I do think they missed a trick by not making it a traditional length blade.
Of course, if you're including pro shapes, then H4L, Keeley, GM, GN Aus all have their fair share of really nice pro shaped bats.
Notable funky profiles:
- B3 - Beluga - In response to the gauge. I had one pass through my hands, and it just felt a bit odd.
- Keeley - Rashid Camel - Funky
- BAS - Dolphin - Quite a unique duckbilling, even more aggressive than the Beluga
Little rant here:
I really dislike the bat gauge at times. I'd even go as far to argue that the gauge has done damage to batmakers displaying their skills because of folks just wanting bats to just fit through. It's become a ceiling to hit, rather than a guideline of 'if it fits through this, you're grand'. Spoke to a batmaker, who mentioned that the gauge he feels is flawed. You put Sachin's bat in a bathtub, and it would have displaced far more water than bats of today. Does that mean that we should discount all his achievements as he had achieved a fair bit of it using a bat that would be illegal today? Or do we accept that his skills were what earned him his 100 tons, and that his choice of bat worked because it felt like an extension of him?
Bring back the Thruxtons, the GTs, the B52s, the Mjolnirs, the Tours, the Purists, the Maxis, the Heroes, the Phoenix, the Powerbow, the Amplus, the Distinctions, the old BAS and SS shapes. Heck, look at the bat Gilchrist used to smash his 149 in the WC Final and his 57 ball ton in the Ashes - was a good sized bat back in the day, but would be considered a toothpick compared to the Player Editions of today!
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Some lovely sticks on show but I can’t get my thought process away from the old school Newbery Mjolnir shape. A bat from my childhood that whenever I held it it felt right!! Any forum bat makers have one of those to copy?
A bat from my earlier cricket days too! I still have it, but have had to refurbish it as it was in such a bad state. At the risk of being banned forever, I'll admit that as a teenager with no woodwork skills or tools, I saved the inside edge by filling a dangerous-looking crack with car body filler as that's all I could find :( Took me quite a bit of work recently to remove that, and try to do a proper job. Not sure I've completely fixed the delaminated face though.
Looking at it now, a big reason I think that the pick up feels so good is that mine is only 2 lbs 7.
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This is a question and topic that I'm really interested in following, and is the reason that I found the forum in the first place. I'd been reading up on the physics of bat design, and realised that there were A LOT of interesting threads on here.
In teaching myself how to make bats over the last year or so, I've made some fairly strange shapes, and modelled how they should perfom. But I've only used 2 of them in a game or nets, and must admit, that I've left the weirder ones at home. In fact, I just converted my weirdest bat into a more convential shape. I guess if I was buying a bat, and it had a different shape, then I'd have to be convinced that it was going to be at least as good (however you define it) as normal shapes.
I have a few ideas for complicated (but legal) shapes that could be used on bats, and think that they would be interesting to test, but without a CNC I can't get close to making them. I'm trying at the moment by hand, and my Dremel skills are nowhere near up to it!
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This is the issue with funky shapes as previously stated, ate they commercially viable? Unless you can prove their stew specific benefits over traditional shapes, then it's just down to the asthetics and people will generally go for less funky. Even if it's just so they don't get stick when they spoon one top mid off 2nd ball!
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when designing a bat on CAD at the old place, I always used a set of parameters to ensure the bats always felt good and worked. This allowed me to design anything I wanted but as long as I worked between there parameters the bat would work.
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This is the issue with funky shapes as previously stated, ate they commercially viable?
Exactly that mate, bottom line is they're not viable on any sort of mass/commercial scale - the odd one-off here and there just won't make up for the time/resources put into developing the new profile in the first place (hence pretty much every brand having the same few outline profiles, it's what the public want!).
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Exactly that mate, bottom line is they're not viable on any sort of mass/commercial scale - the odd one-off here and there just won't make up for the time/resources put into developing the new profile in the first place (hence pretty much every brand having the same few outline profiles, it's what the public want!).
It's just the fact there are so many possibilities but there would be a limited market. So for most of the bigger brands to mass produce a funky shape to more than likely sit on the shelves, just isnt viable as you say. Making them isn't really the difficult part now, especially with CNCs.
As previously mentioned, funky shapes are available but just not ots. Any batmaker will be more than happy to make something different from the norm I'm sure
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This discussion is only fuelling my desire to spend more money on bats 😅 a properly weird one is conspicuously missing from the collection...
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This discussion is only fuelling my desire to spend more money on bats 😅 a properly weird one is conspicuously missing from the collection...
It's fuelling my fire to shape up a weird shape too tbh, but no time at present
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Taking of funky shapes.....
https://www.instagram.com/p/CbzSsThlqZT/?utm_medium=copy_link (https://www.instagram.com/p/CbzSsThlqZT/?utm_medium=copy_link)
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Taking of funky shapes.....
https://www.instagram.com/p/CbzSsThlqZT/?utm_medium=copy_link (https://www.instagram.com/p/CbzSsThlqZT/?utm_medium=copy_link)
YES! Love it! Thanks for sharing (and making!)
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How does the bat pickup? @jonny77 Love to see that people are trying out new shapes instead of the generic shapes in the recent years.
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Picks up like a dog mate. Ultra skinny handle, thin splice and shoulders. Thought today might be the day to put it out there.....the response has actually surprised me tho! 😂
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Well I love it for a few reasons, but the main one being that looking for weird bat shapes was one of the reasons I found the forum in the first place. So I have a big soft spot for all the odd-shaped bats out there.
This one actually reminds me a bit of the first bat I made, which was based on artificial intelligence optimizing the design (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=48259.msg768747#msg768747 (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=48259.msg768747#msg768747)). I think I posted it on another thread, but you can now read the whole thesis about that method for free (https://open.library.ubc.ca/soa/cIRcle/collections/ubctheses/24/items/1.0392675 (https://open.library.ubc.ca/soa/cIRcle/collections/ubctheses/24/items/1.0392675)).
In those bats, the design tries to put the centre of percussion (usually high up the blade) as close as possible to the vibration nodes (usually near the toe), with the result being a massive lump of wood near the toe, and not much elsehwhere. Which is exactly what you've done! When I've got time I will try and run your shape through the simulation software, which should tell me exactly where those points are, but I really suspect that it is pretty close to being 'optimized' according to that study. But of course, the study wasn't looking at the pick up (although does predict centre of mass), which I can completely believe is not good!
But great work all the same! At least according to the theory, if you can middle one off that bat it should absolutely fly... you've just got to figure out how to lift it in the first place!
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It weighs 2lbs 3oz 😆
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Taking of funky shapes.....
https://www.instagram.com/p/CbzSsThlqZT/?utm_medium=copy_link (https://www.instagram.com/p/CbzSsThlqZT/?utm_medium=copy_link)
This looks like a skinny Laver Ultra shape (https://www.laverwood.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Ultra.jpg (https://www.laverwood.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Ultra.jpg)). In the past, I am pretty sure I reached out to Laver & Wood and asked them to make one just like you posted. :D
Regardless, after the enactment of size restrictions by MCC/ICC , these are the types of shapes we are headed towards.
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This is a question and topic that I'm really interested in following, and is the reason that I found the forum in the first place. I'd been reading up on the physics of bat design, and realised that there were A LOT of interesting threads on here.
In teaching myself how to make bats over the last year or so, I've made some fairly strange shapes, and modelled how they should perfom. But I've only used 2 of them in a game or nets, and must admit, that I've left the weirder ones at home. In fact, I just converted my weirdest bat into a more convential shape. I guess if I was buying a bat, and it had a different shape, then I'd have to be convinced that it was going to be at least as good (however you define it) as normal shapes.
I have a few ideas for complicated (but legal) shapes that could be used on bats, and think that they would be interesting to test, but without a CNC I can't get close to making them. I'm trying at the moment by hand, and my Dremel skills are nowhere near up to it!
I have seen your other threads and this is exactly the kind of work and thinking that's needed in the bat making world! You are not getting paid for it (yet) but you are advancing the field. Keep an eye out for patenting the build/design "process" or trademarking "shapes" which could be licensed to bigger players. Just thinking out loud should you choose the route.
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Taking of funky shapes.....
https://www.instagram.com/p/CbzSsThlqZT/?utm_medium=copy_link (https://www.instagram.com/p/CbzSsThlqZT/?utm_medium=copy_link)
April fools!
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I'm crawling back into my cave! Nice one.
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Sorry mate, was meant as a bit of fun but actual got some different reactions to what i was expecting tbh!
You weren't alone as some people actually seemed to really like it. I made it out of a damaged cleft, just to show people that what they were sometimes asking for actually looked like, as it hits the big edges and high spine at lightweight brief. It was also intended to show the importance of balance and feel over size. Honestly I've got bats in stock at 2lbs 9oz which fell nicer in the hands and are still big bats.
I doubt most would want to use it and if someone actually wanted me to make them one, it would come without a warranty as i just don't think it would be durable enough. Which is another important point, its not with sacrificing durability for size. Super thin handles, excessive flattening of the splice area etc are in my opinion detrimental to the bat, just to achieve a size which won't make anyone a better player.
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This looks like a skinny Laver Ultra shape (https://www.laverwood.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Ultra.jpg (https://www.laverwood.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Ultra.jpg)). In the past, I am pretty sure I reached out to Laver & Wood and asked them to make one just like you posted. :D
Regardless, after the enactment of size restrictions by MCC/ICC , these are the types of shapes we are headed towards.
Let me know if you want to experiment with one! 😆
You say we're heading to these shapes, but my question would be why? I honestly can't see what benefit a bat like this would give anyone?
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Taking of funky shapes.....
https://www.instagram.com/p/CbzSsThlqZT/?utm_medium=copy_link (https://www.instagram.com/p/CbzSsThlqZT/?utm_medium=copy_link)
Newer take on the GM Zona f2? I like the uncontrollable *smirk at the end Jonny.
*Edit - in a good way. More of a wry smile really.
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Let me know if you want to experiment with one! 😆
You say we're heading to these shapes, but my question would be why? I honestly can't see what benefit a bat like this would give anyone?
Because funny shapes and new bats make us all better players 😅
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Newer take on the GM Zone f2? I like the uncontrollable smirk at the end Jonny.
Ha ha, you picked up on that?! Yeah an extreme version i suppose. It was interesting to see that some people didn't see it as that unusual, to me it looked bizarre.
You could take that to mean maybe we need to look at funky shapes, or that we're already not that far off so people are becoming normalised to it.
I'm all for innovation and progress, but not just for the sake of it. This type of shape imo doesn't improve anything.
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Because funny shapes and new bats make us all better players 😅
Ha ha, that maybe a tounge in cheek comment but pretty sure a lot of people actually believe that! 😆
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Let me know if you want to experiment with one! 😆
Laver already experimented with that shape, it is called "Ultra".
You say we're heading to these shapes, but my question would be why? I honestly can't see what benefit a bat like this would give anyone?
I said the shape, not your piddly bat.
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Ha ha, that maybe a tounge in cheek comment but pretty sure a lot of people actually believe that! 😆
Ha ha, what's really funny is it is actually the reason why people buy more than 5 bats. Keep ridiculing the potential customers, great biz strategy.
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Not quite the same extremes but reminds me a bit of a Slaz V12 I had when I was a kid. Remember that having a big bump in the middle and thinner elsewhere.
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Ha ha, what's really funny is it is actually the reason why people buy more than 5 bats. Keep ridiculing the potential customers, great biz strategy.
Wow, where do I start?
Thanks for the input. It was all intended as a light hearted bit of fun and certainly not to ridicule anyone. That's really what April fools is all about, a bit of fun. I'm happy enough that those who know me will testify to the fact that's not what I'm about.
I think the comment from at @Jimbo was intended to be light hearted, so was mine. I actually state in my video that its each to their own and i enjoy making funky shapes which people request and I feel differing opinion and debate is good. You want to buy loads of bats, great. However, I'll stand by my comment that buying more bats doesn't actually make anyone a better player (also not a great biz strategy probably 😉)
My opinion on the shape remains. Although i have the upmost respect for any batmaker, for me I just don't see the benefit. Not saying I'm right, just an opinion. My question had no mallice in it and I wasn't saying my opinion was the right one, it's my opinion. The question was intended to open up a debate and get people's views, kind of one if the reasons for a forum really isn't it?
As for my piddly bat. I agree, it is piddly. That was the whole joke, so really glad you got it! But i actually said shape and bats like mine, meaning what are the actual benefits of shapes like this, as its a question which interests me and thought you may have wanted to tell me why in your opinion we're heading to these. Believe it or not I was genuinely interested to here your views on it.
Anyway, hope you have a great weekend and thanks for interacting.
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Nice one, Jonny. I loved it!
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Great April fools Jonny, something different and doesn't harm anybody. Put a smile on my face when I saw it on my Instagram feed.
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Ha ha, what's really funny is it is actually the reason why people buy more than 5 bats. Keep ridiculing the potential customers, great biz strategy.
Yes he must be really struggling with his Business strategy looking at where he is as a new UK bat maker. @jonny77 you better take not from the Alan Sugar of the keyboard warrior world lol
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Glad it raised a smile, that was the intention. I was honestly pleased it actually raised a few questions on bats and profiles etc too. It's always good to get people's opinions and try to tweak things.
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Ha ha, what's really funny is it is actually the reason why people buy more than 5 bats. Keep ridiculing the potential customers, great biz strategy.
Multiply that by a fair number and you'll have my collection size. Still a customer, didn't feel offended or ridiculed.
It seems anyone you take the slightest issue over gets the full Karen treatment from you, be it B3 or Stretton Fox. Did you fall for the April Fools and did that upset you?
On behalf of all who fell for it, we demand to speak to your manager @jonny77 ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
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Whoa, whoa! Easy there kids. Just pointing out the shape and unnecessary ridicule of it. No need to get all Putin/Will Smith on me.
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Really do struggle to work you out sometimes mate 😂
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I still like Will Smith! 😂
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Sorry mate, was meant as a bit of fun but actual got some different reactions to what i was expecting tbh!
You weren't alone as some people actually seemed to really like it. I made it out of a damaged cleft, just to show people that what they were sometimes asking for actually looked like, as it hits the big edges and high spine at lightweight brief. It was also intended to show the importance of balance and feel over size. Honestly I've got bats in stock at 2lbs 9oz which fell nicer in the hands and are still big bats.
I doubt most would want to use it and if someone actually wanted me to make them one, it would come without a warranty as i just don't think it would be durable enough. Which is another important point, its not with sacrificing durability for size. Super thin handles, excessive flattening of the splice area etc are in my opinion detrimental to the bat, just to achieve a size which won't make anyone a better player.
No worries at all - it was a good one and I fell for it big time! Although I did wonder who would want to buy something like that, other than me of course :)
In case you're interested, I had a quick go at seeing how such a weird shape compares to other, more traditional shapes. It's not spot on, as I just had to go off your photo and specs, but the modelled weight came out at 2 lbs 5 oz, which isn't too far off.
This is the model shape, with the main vibration points marked on. I think that the shape isn't too far off the real one, although the area into the toe could do with being a bit smaller perhaps (also would reduce weight a little).
(https://i.postimg.cc/t4znVNJd/ME-Scott-AF2022-side-Ansys-results.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
And in case you want to know how it compares to other bats, here's a graph (sorry everyone!) of some other real bats that I've modelled, and some theoretical ones. Basically, what it shows is that this bat has one of the smallest sweet spot areas of any bat (the only ones lower are the theoretical ones predicted by artificial intelligence), and pretty terrible pickup. Which I think is what you said it feels like, so that's reassuring!
(https://i.postimg.cc/Vkwb6VfL/APDL-code-results-Scott-AF2022.jpg) (https://postimages.org/)
I'd still love to see the fielding side's faces though when someone walked out with it though!
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Ha ha, yeah i don't think it would be a great seller due to that reason more than any...the amount of stick you'd get!
Interesting. This pretty much backs up what was said really. The pick up isn't great and the sweet spot is tiny...so not much going for these shapes! 😂
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It would be interesting if you could post pictures of the profile of bat with the largest sweet spot and best pickup vs the bat with the smallest sweet spot and worst pickup to see how they compare? Fascinating stuff really.
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I think I kind of do that in another thread here, with an earlier version of the same graph (although with a related, but different parameter on the Y-axis).
http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=48259.msg785810#msg785810 (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=48259.msg785810#msg785810)
Is that the sort of thing you were thinking of? If I had time I'd actually write all of this up properly, as I'm also about 3/4 of the way through measuring and analysing all B3 bats, which means I can split them into proper categories (and it's based on more accurate CAD data).