Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: jonny77 on September 17, 2022, 11:18:19 PM
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So, a comment on the Dream Bat thread and a request from a customer this week made me curious to gain peoples opinions on handles.
More specifically, whip. Is this a good thing? What do people mean by whip? Whats the perceived benefit, or is it actually detrimental?
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IMO, it might be positive in terms of feel but in terms of facts it seems pretty clear that a whippy handle means less power into your shots.
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Great question!
To me, whip means some sort of flexibility in the handle.
I used to think that "whip" is a good thing. A whippy handle bat will transfer some extra energy to the ball on its impact with the blade and thus creating a more pingy bat.
Lately, I have been told that the handle should be stiff and not with a whip. Am not clear on the physics part of this argument, but will be keen to hear from others on what they think.
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Whip vs no whip?
It is one thing to experience something and then being "told" that is not right.
I have hit with a whippy handle and it felt great. Also, the ball went faaaaar as well.
I can also hit a ball far with a non-whippy handle but it just doesn't feel that great. :D
A whippy (springy) handle that is whippy by design and not because (of damage) it is breaking is great!
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Would also love to know what’s meant by a Whippy handle? Most agree that GM are the best handle shapes, size etc but by design are stiff and imo is why people feel that they are “pressed” hard, they are not they just have a stiff handle and last generally a long time. So is a “whippy” handle something that’s stick thin from someone like SS on a big profile bat that performs quickly but often breaks quickly as well.
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I've also been told whippy handle is a bendy flexible one...
But I've always preferred stiffer handles and felt they performed better...
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First thing my son notices on a bat is the handle.
If it's chunky he likes it- if not it will spoil the whole feel of the bat for him. On advice from the forum, we now get an extra layer of binding put onto his handles.
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Would also love to know what’s meant by a Whippy handle? Most agree that GM are the best handle shapes, size etc but by design are stiff and imo is why people feel that they are “pressed” hard, they are not they just have a stiff handle and last generally a long time. So is a “whippy” handle something that’s stick thin from someone like SS on a big profile bat that performs quickly but often breaks quickly as well.
Best example is CA and some other Pakistani manufacturers. They have 5 rubber inserts instead of 3. GN Australia is also doing this now on a few bats.
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Seems like the place to go for handles is WCW …
David Malan just had his re handles done there
They do 4 and 6 piece
Anyone can explain the difference between 4 and 6
I believe Keeley do 6 and 12 piece ?
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I had slight suspicions you had some affiliation with WCW, now I'm almost certain! 😂
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For me, the handle is a really important part of any bat and not often talked about other than in shape. I hear people saying they love a whippy handle, but imo a slightly stiffer handle is preferable for power and longevity.
I see a lot of rehandles, largely due to poor quality handles which have a lot of whip/flex and you can see the cracks starting from the handle inserts, going down into the neck and into the shoulders.
A good quality handle for me has some flex, but not excessive twist or flex. It just causes issues all round imo.
4, 6 or 12 piece are obviously the amount of seperate pieces laminated together to make the handle. Depending on who you speak to depends on the pro's and cons of each. Even though they're more expensive, i now only use 12 piece as i prefer them and feel that have the right level of flex/stiffness/longevity for me. I use them in all of my bats regardless of Grade, as prefered then to the 4 piece ones i used.
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Marc from cricketbatinfo has done a great video featuring the carbon composite handles. Would love to try one of those handles out.
https://youtu.be/gD89lHwoEE0 (https://youtu.be/gD89lHwoEE0)
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Honestly no affiliation to wcw
I believe you also do thicker handles for
Your bats . Although I may be wrong did you have some link to wcw when you started ?
Is a 4 piece handle more flexi or whippey than a 12 piece
And a 12 piece slightly heavier ?
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Marc from cricketbatinfo has done a great video featuring the carbon composite handles. Would love to try one of those handles out.
https://youtu.be/gD89lHwoEE0 (https://youtu.be/gD89lHwoEE0)
Looks great, I wish there were more things like this in the game. There has been a few innovations but all seem to just get banned after someone ends up pushing the boat out too far.
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Honestly no affiliation to wcw
I believe you also do thicker handles for
Your bats . Although I may be wrong did you have some link to wcw when you started ?
Is a 4 piece handle more flexi or whippey than a 12 piece
And a 12 piece slightly heavier ?
No link mate mate. What makes you say that?
On the handles, I can shape them to any thickness and shape, add they come in pretty chunky. On my stock bats I'll generally make then to a med (med to thick maybe by today's stds) semi oval as std.
As i said, suppose it depends on who you speak to as top the more whip etc. 12 piece trend to be slightly heavier in my experience and a little firmer. As i said, perhaps for me as i thick too much whip/flex causes issues with the shoulders personally. Its all opinions tho.
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This is from memory
And it was a while ago, I thought I recalled you showing some insta story of being there
When you started .. but I can’t recall and maybe wrong
I believe you did share the same sticker designer that I do recall
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This is from memory
And it was a while ago, I thought I recalled you showing some insta story of being there
When you started .. but I can’t recall and maybe wrong
I believe you did share the same sticker designer that I do recall
Wow, good memory mate. Yep, i visited a few times and the company who designed their stickers also designed mine, along with many other brands stickers this past year or two. Not really linked though. We were, are and always have been completely seperate companies.
In terms of Malans bats, seems like they were fixed up by the Bat Dr Bristol. Don't think he does rehandles and looking at Insta was at WCW recently. So obviously uses them for rehandles.
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That’s exactly how it was above
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He’s now got moeen and Malan on the books so to speak
Although the pro Wands being sold at moment have fake stickers on ..
I think for rehandle Scott does a good job as any With thick handles from the stories
Balance on a bat must be determined somewhat by handle weight and they must vary like clefts ?
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He’s now got moeen and Malan on the books so to speak
Although the pro Wands being sold at moment have fake stickers on ..
I think for rehandle Scott does a good job as any With thick handles from the stories
Balance on a bat must be determined somewhat by handle weight and they must vary like clefts ?
Ok, you've lost me now. Not quite sure i understand the abv mate
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So, a comment on the Dream Bat thread and a request from a customer this week made me curious to gain peoples opinions on handles.
Handle is my one absolute non-negotiable on a bat - if it's a very thin handle, I don't want the bat. Can compensate up a bit with extra binding or grips, but if it's too skinny in the first place then there's nothing you can do to get the feel right.
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The handle is the piece of the bat that you interact with when using it, so it's such a vital part to get right for yourself in terms of shape and size. In terms of the construction, then 3/4 piece, 6 piece, 12 piece, rubber, cork inserts. All the factors do tend to add up to achieve quite different feeling handles - but the most important is that it's well made and it's been well glued internally, as well as fitted correctly.
For myself, a handle with a solid feel, but with some flex has always been the style I prefer. I also prefer the handle to be oval, and probably more of a medium sized handle. I can just about get on with the Keeley handles, they are definitely on the skinnier side, but they do use a good quality stiffer handle, so you get a good blend of flex and stiffness despite them being a little skinny I feel. I just wrap an extra round of bind around any that are too thin, and they're just about okay then.
Then on the opposite side of the spectrum, you have ridiculously thick handles - which yes can balance well, but I've got an Aldred where the handle is something like 45mm by 40mm - it's actually probably detrimental to the feel IMO when you have a handle that's too thick - can feel it might slip out your hands. It may make the bat more balanced to the handle end, but because it's so thick it doesn't feel it sits comfortably in the hands, hence making the overall feel worse.
With regards to whip - it's something that I've heard Rob Pack and Julian Millichamp talk about in the way they've designed shapes, and you see players stepping on their handles to create that 'whip' in the handle. I think more a feel/control thing. Feel/control is definitely something linked to performance, as you have to feel comfortable with the shots you play and how you feel the ball off the bat.
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On the handles, I can shape them to any thickness and shape
Even an oversized fishtail? 😁
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I also agree with everything Johnny has said and am glad this post started.
I agree that handles are probably the most important factor of selecting a bat. Not enough is discussed about them and I personally feel not enough choice is offered compared with grades, bat blade & handle lengths, middle position etc. I guess I prefer a stiffer handle but that could just be what am use to and it wouldnt alarm me I might have broken the bat.
I have found the older I get the fatter the oval handle is desired. But with that desire the harder it seems to find, as handles overall feel slimmer than ever. 36mm-40mm seems the norm, but if 45mm-50mm plus was used again the modern chunky bat wouldn’t feel half as bottom heavy in my opinion. I also feel handle dimensions should be advertised on websites as much as edge and toe thicknesses etc. I once phoned GM for their handle dimensions and nobody had a clue. (By the way GM handles are one of the slimmest top hand feeling in my opinion despite the forum favouring them for some reason)
With this new trend of slim handles comes an annoying extreme nobbley bit at the top of handle where the top hand should sit. So I find myself levelling out the annoying nobbley bit to get a flusher top hand grip.
Watching the modern cricketer I often notice an inch of handle sprouting out of the top hand whilst the bottom hand is very low on the bat too. So maybe this nobbley bit is now expecting everyone to lower their grip. Tough! It is a bat not a sword!
The higher the grip, the more leverage you will get, which will particularly help to get over the ball to keep it directed downwards. And I will still be 49 NOT OUT after 3 months, 2 weeks and 6 days! lol.
I actually came to a bit of an assumption that thinner handles must be cheaper and the whole ‘bat speed’ marketing is to help justify it and set the trend whilst simply improving profit margin?
The same theory of a longer handle with a shorter blade, sounds like a willow saving exercise to me as cain is cheaper than willow? But if you make it people will buy it.
And I am sure the same would happen if a 3 grip thickness handle hit the shops one day.
Thanks in advance for putting up with me comrades. 😬😂
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Interesting you mention Gm one of the best handles ruined by the top hand or upper part getting slim
They do seem to be slimmer recently than before though
It can be solved with a thicker type grip if you can find without adding too much weight however that’s not the point .
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I also agree with everything Johnny has said and am glad this post started.
I agree that handles are probably the most important factor of selecting a bat. Not enough is discussed about them and I personally feel not enough choice is offered compared with grades, bat blade & handle lengths, middle position etc. I guess I prefer a stiffer handle but that could just be what am use to and it wouldnt alarm me I might have broken the bat.
I have found the older I get the fatter the oval handle is desired. But with that desire the harder it seems to find, as handles overall feel slimmer than ever. 36mm-40mm seems the norm, but if 45mm-50mm plus was used again the modern chunky bat wouldn’t feel half as bottom heavy in my opinion. I also feel handle dimensions should be advertised on websites as much as edge and toe thicknesses etc. I once phoned GM for their handle dimensions and nobody had a clue. (By the way GM handles are one of the slimmest top hand feeling in my opinion despite the forum favouring them for some reason)
With this new trend of slim handles comes an annoying extreme nobbley bit at the top of handle where the top hand should sit. So I find myself levelling out the annoying nobbley bit to get a flusher top hand grip.
Watching the modern cricketer I often notice an inch of handle sprouting out of the top hand whilst the bottom hand is very low on the bat too. So maybe this nobbley bit is now expecting everyone to lower their grip. Tough! It is a bat not a sword!
The higher the grip, the more leverage you will get, which will particularly help to get over the ball to keep it directed downwards. And I will still be 49 NOT OUT after 3 months, 2 weeks and 6 days! lol.
I actually came to a bit of an assumption that thinner handles must be cheaper and the whole ‘bat speed’ marketing is to help justify it and set the trend whilst simply improving profit margin?
The same theory of a longer handle with a shorter blade, sounds like a willow saving exercise to me as cain is cheaper than willow? But if you make it people will buy it.
And I am sure the same would happen if a 3 grip thickness handle hit the shops one day.
Thanks in advance for putting up with me comrades. 😬😂
I use the handles with a slight 'knobbly' bit as you say, but haven't found it a problem as most people don't grip it that close to the top, regardless of whether it's there or not. I can always sand this away, or lessen it to suit if asked.
Thinner handles, shorter blades etc aren't designed to save costs tho. Clefts come in std sizes much bigger than even a long blade, so that doesn't stack up as you'd just be voting away more waste. Handles could come in from suppliers thinner I suppose if specified, but would still need finishing to a required thickness. Wouldn't have thought this would make them cheaper though.
The main reason for thin handles, short blades, thin grips etc is probably all to do with weight saving. Companies are trying to meet demand for big bats at light weights, so all these things add up to hit desired scale weights. Not that any of it helps the feel or longevity of the bat imo.
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Thanks for clearing up my money saving thoughts Johnny. Was more of a devils advocate type comment really. I think an extreme nobbley handle would be on a ghost Lite for example which is very extreme looking thin handle with balance weight on the end.
I think I found myself holding the bat with minimal handle sprouting out the top is to allow the potential to twizzle the bat grip in my hands to allow for a wristier shot. Interesting that I’m not the only one who has noticed GM handles have slimmed down overnight.
I have also mentioned on the forum in the past that I do laugh a bit at the evolution of the cricket bat being chunky and almost oversized nowadays but expected to be light as possible. Generally sports equipment gets lighter and stronger each few years but not bats yet. They’ve just got bigger and heavier.
I actually would be very happy with a 2,4 to 2,6 bat with a nice think handle and 25mm edges or whichever was required.
I used to be able to choose a lot of 2,6 bats but now they hardly exist, unless it’s shortish blade with longer thin handle.
I appreciate it must be a supply & demand problem. But even the greats of all time legend has it some used 2,5 give or take type bats. I wonder what the lightest and slimmest spec bat could be scientifically possible but giving it the best ping to help glide to the boundary. But that’s a whole new thread! It’s nice to hear what is and isn’t possible with handle specs Johnny. Far more possibilities than I realised. But as I groaned, let’s get this great news on the websites.
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Making bats in weights of 2.6 is quite possibly and doesn’t require low density pro grade clefts but does require the person buying one to generally have realistic expectations and they would as you state be edges 25mm which in this day and age gives the vast majority the mindset that it’s going to be a poor bat, won’t clear the boundary etc. The more common way these days is to make the bats narrow on the face and then angle the edges backwards towards the rear so the rear of the bat is ever narrower than the face. Blade widths of 104/105 on the blade and 101/102 on the back are not quite common and seems to go unnoticed by the majority that just buy there bats online or from a set group of brands that now seem to make these measurements as standard but offer large volume bats at weights a bit above the 2.6 but with specs that are the more commonly accepted these days.
This is the same for handles as the same brands also offer by and large thin handles with very thin grips as well as very thin binding twine.
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Or you wait for the right cleft...
http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=49818.0 (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=49818.0)