Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: addu84 on September 30, 2022, 06:46:46 PM
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Ok, this might get a mixed response :p
In the market for a bat for next season. Given the choice, who would you select to supply the bat and why?
Thanks.
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Keeley
History rep and long-standing quality
Mike ha ha one for Johnny :)
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What's your budget? What's important to you, branding, history etc? Stock shape or custom?
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Only criteria being pickup and performance.
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Any good batmaker would offer that as a minimum, so I'm sure they'd both more than deliver on that. So imo your decision then comes down to branding, whether you want a custom or if one of their stock shapes takes your fancy, and ultimately who you'd like to give your money to. You'll get a great bat either way.
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Get a bat off Jonny.
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Get two bats one off Keeley and one off Johnny
Win win
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Just buy one bat from every batmaker. Job done! 😆
Although i think @Chad has already done that tbf
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Can you visit either of them to select off the shelf or have one made to ur specs?
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Just buy one bat from every batmaker. Job done! 😆
Although i think @Chad has already done that tbf
How many years can bats stay in storage if waxed every year without reduction in the wood of performance when you use it ?
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I'm.nor sure tbh. Quite some tile though I'd think. I've got my old GM Cannon in the workshop from around (I'd guess) 96? I used it until it delaminated, then it stayed in a cupboard in my parents house for the next 20 years without seeing daylight or anything. Still pings. If it hadn't delaminated so badly i reckon it would still be usable.
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Both will give you a quality bat. Keeley probably more likely to give you something that goes from the off. WCW branding is better. Both will make a gun bat. Ignore them both and get a custom Scott for less money.
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A mate turned up at Keeley and asked for the worst looking but best performing bat.
He got a 6 grainer Superior profile with a pin knot in the hitting area for way cheaper than you'd expect. I've knocked it in for him. It performs just as well as a top of the range bat.
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I'm hoping Jonny meant parents.
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Lol. Sinister
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Thanks for all the suggestions. Will decide next week. Am unable to visit either bat maker so will have to buy blind. Keeley is undoubtedly top quality regardless of whether we agree on pricing or not. WCW is making all the right noises - not sure if that is purely excellent marketing and social media presence…
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I'm hoping Jonny meant parents.
Damn you predictive text! Least it didn't say victims, so could've been worse
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Thanks for all the suggestions. Will decide next week. Am unable to visit either bat maker so will have to buy blind. Keeley is undoubtedly top quality regardless of whether we agree on pricing or not. WCW is making all the right noises - not sure if that is purely excellent marketing and social media presence…
They both make very good bats mate, you won't go wrong with either
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Thanks for all the suggestions. Will decide next week. Am unable to visit either bat maker so will have to buy blind. Keeley is undoubtedly top quality regardless of whether we agree on pricing or not. WCW is making all the right noises - not sure if that is purely excellent marketing and social media presence…
I too was reluctant to buy a bat blind online. But I had very reassuring conversations with blankbats and Rob Pack before ordering. A chat with them also does no harm if you are still feeling reluctant mate.
Good luck shopping.
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Just do Scott bats... after getting annoyed with the service of one of the brands...
Just went with Jonny... having the option of visiting the batmaker in person made up for it...
Maybe in future I may retry the other brand but more than happy for now...
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Just do Scott bats... after getting annoyed with the service of one of the brands...
Just went with Jonny... having the option of visiting the batmaker in person made up for it...
Maybe in future I may retry the other brand but more than happy for now...
You won’t regret it!
Great sticks from a great bloke.
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Genuine question; please help me understand. What have I missed that makes WCW so special?
The stickers/decals look nice but I can't see them offering anything that you can't get elsewhere.
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Genuine question; please help me understand. What have I missed that makes WCW so special?
The stickers/decals look nice but I can't see them offering anything that you can't get elsewhere.
I kind of agree with what you are saying, TBH I think most credible brands make a decent bat and shapes are much of muchness now... but branding plays a huge part...
People for varying reasons get attached to brands... probably key reason, they use a brand and get runs and it helps build affinity with said brand...
Outside of branding I suspect the pressing and handles would be the biggest tangible reasons for liking brands...
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Genuine question; please help me understand. What have I missed that makes WCW so special?
The stickers/decals look nice but I can't see them offering anything that you can't get elsewhere.
flavour if the month on her? Not the first instance.
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Not even particularly convinced it's a forum trend. Their marketing is pretty good, branding is excellent and they've sponsored some very canny players who've made big runs in televised games with bats that look the business.
Their shapes are generic but they're generic because they're what a lot of the market wants and I've yet to hear anyone get one that was no good.
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I went up to WCW to visit pre-season. I think one of the things that makes them different is that they have their own supply of UK grown willow, which allows them to pick the best for their bats. They aim to make the biggest bat they can from each cleft and are opposed to techniques like over drying and blade narrowing to achieve it, so I'd be surprised if anyone found something like that in one of their bats. They're producing loads of big bats at reasonable weights, so that says something about the quality of the willow, and skill of the batmaker, to me. All the bats I've wafted pick up very well, so even ones with a higher dead weight then I'd usually go for, e.g. 2, 12 felt really nice in the hands. As you'd expect for a handmade set up, they treat each bat as an individual and do what they can to get the best out of it. They were saying that some of the best bats that have left the shop, in their opinion, were in the lower grades.
It's a nice place to go, the people are very welcoming, happy to show you around the workshop and talk about the process. When I was there quite a few people dropped in to chat, including Smeed who came by to pick his clefts for the season. The place was stuffed with clefts and bats in various stages of production it was hard to find one that didn't look good.
The price for their top end stuff is high, no denying that. But it's a good set up: UK grown, UK made, great service and good guys to talk to. They aren't a big operation, really, but I think they're doing very well with their growth strategy. I think the branding, very bold and bright and appealing to youngsters, and sponsorship of key UK players in comps like the hundred, has really helped kick them into the spotlight this year.
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There’s only one real option on CBF…
Try all 3
(https://i.postimg.cc/WzwRKfFB/1-C1646-DE-3-E55-417-F-9382-758-F70961546.jpg) (https://postimg.cc/bSrFSgRg)
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Triggered by the upside down grip on the WCW :(
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Triggered by the upside down grip on the WCW :(
Lol. Done on purpose - I’ve thickened the bottom of the handle with kinso tape and it just feels better with the grip upside down… it’s a price my OCD also has to pay
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.I think one of the things that makes them different is that they have their own supply of UK grown willow, which allows them to pick the best for their bats.
That's far from unique - Keeley is exactly the same, as are many.
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I might just open a can of worms with these questions.
What's the WCW bat makers back ground? Was he an apprentice anywhere or a carpenter that's a natural talent in bat making?
Do they press their own clefts? Even if they own a press, are they using it or learning how to? If it was my cash, I'd like to know.
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Heard on grapevine Aldred trained wcw owner
They also have a background in selling willow / not sure what came first
Believe they own their own press ..
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I might just open a can of worms with these questions.
What's the WCW bat makers back ground? Was he an apprentice anywhere or a carpenter that's a natural talent in bat making?
Do they press their own clefts? Even if they own a press, are they using it or learning how to? If it was my cash, I'd like to know.
Yes they own a press and yes they use it. They've been around for a good few years now.
As for if they served an apprenticeship, i doubt it as there's very few of those available anywhere now. So how is someone supposed to get into batmaking other than teach themselves and have some guidance along the way? You don't have to have either served an apprenticeship or be a carpenter to become a batmaker imo. Surely all that matters is that you make a good product, care about what you're doing and give good service etc. Unless I've misinterpreted the question.
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I don't doubt what Jonny says. But it is strange that they usr the wording "grown and shaped in England". Perhaps someone should tell them?
What happened to the lad on here who went to Gunn and Moore?
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That's far from unique - Keeley is exactly the same, as are many.
As do Kippax and I think JEDi were starting to plant their own willow.
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I don't doubt what Jonny says. But it is strange that they usr the wording "grown and shaped in England". Perhaps someone should tell them?
What happened to the lad on here who went to Gunn and Moore?
@Perkins17
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I don't doubt what Jonny says. But it is strange that they usr the wording "grown and shaped in England". Perhaps someone should tell them?
What happened to the lad on here who went to Gunn and Moore?
Not that I'm their chief defender, far from it. However, I've seen their press and watched them pressing. I actually almost bought their original press when they obtained another. If you look at their socials, you can see them processing willow and some clefts machine shaped up before they're handled, then most likely pressed a second time and hand shaped/finished.
As I said, not their chief defender but just thought it might help clear up whats obviously a hot topic 😁
Let's not even get into the whole, are you actually a batmaker unless you press debate 😂
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Mike who makes their bats came out of the army. I met him prior to him launching WCW and offered him my experiences of the cricket industry over the last 18 years I’ve been in it.
He was selling willow originally but quickly learnt that by doing a few more procedures it’s far more profitable making those clefts into bats 😂
They do the full process in house in their warehouse.
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@Perkins17
Now going solo under the Crossbat brand I believe.
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He must have a lot of experience after working at Gm. Be great to see him post on here
Just checked the socials, just released two bats as well for sale
Although the second 1 would not pass as a g3 even, price is very high . Pink stickers , I guess grading is subjective .
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He was at H4L following GM and has now moved onto forge his own path
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He must have a lot of experience after working at Gm. Be great to see him post on here
Just checked the socials, just released two bats as well for sale
Although the second 1 would not pass as a g3 even, price is very high . Pink stickers , I guess grading is subjective .
Definitely the way to encourage him into the forum mate 😂
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As do Kippax and I think JEDi were starting to plant their own willow.
I was highlighting the fact that they were seemingly avoiding saying 'Made in England'.
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Seems a foot in the door at GM isn't the dream opportunity one might imagine? ;)
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Definitely the way to encourage him into the forum mate 😂
Honestly not being harsh if he had that type
Of experience he must be very good
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Seems a foot in the door at GM isn't the dream opportunity one might imagine? ;)
Honestly what garbage.
Young batmaker gets apprenticeship at GM. Completes his apprenticeship and 7 years there, gets an opportunity to learn a different batmaking experience so moves jobs to Hell4leather and does really well making fabulous bats.
Decides the time is right to lead his own brand.
That is brave and costly, especially at the moment.
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He must have a lot of experience after working at Gm. Be great to see him post on here
Just checked the socials, just released two bats as well for sale
Although the second 1 would not pass as a g3 even, price is very high . Pink stickers , I guess grading is subjective .
You are away with the fairies if you think that bat wouldn't pass for a G3 in the current market. No doubt those of us who have been playing for a while will notice the general reduction of what will pass for higher grades, but that is is market now
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Honestly what garbage.
Young batmaker gets apprenticeship at GM. Completes his apprenticeship and 7 years there, gets an opportunity to learn a different batmaking experience so moves jobs to Hell4leather and does really well making fabulous bats.
Decides the time is right to lead his own brand.
That is brave and costly, especially at the moment.
Oh, I'm sorry. I thought he might have wanted to stay there.
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* Didn't realize 7 years + had passed. :o
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You are away with the fairies if you think that bat wouldn't pass for a G3 in the current market. No doubt those of us who have been playing for a while will notice the general reduction of what will pass for higher grades, but that is is market now
Without sounding rude to the batmaker as buzz has mentioned what he is doing is brave and commended in todays climate
I hope he does extremely well in his new venture
However the bat is listed as a grade 1 and ya agree it may pass as a grade 3
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Without sounding rude to the batmaker as buzz has mentioned what he is doing is brave and commended in todays climate
I hope he does extremely well in his new venture
However the bat is listed as a grade 1 and ya agree it may pass as a grade 3
I would probably agree it doesn't look like a G1 but, to play devil's advocate for a second, if the cleft was bought as a G1 and the marks only revealed themselves during shaping/sanding then it's a bit more understandable.
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My thoughts on the topic.
Background: avid keeley user, have held and been on the end of some good performances with players using WCW.
I’d go Keeley.
I was really impressed by the WCW’s that I picked up performance wise, just bouncing a ball on them and they had a nice feel. They were certainly going well out in the middle as one bloke smashed it round at ease against us. Might have just been the player though.
There was something about the balance of the Orca shape that I just didn’t like though. It was supposed to be a light bat and in my hands didn’t feel it. Of course personal opinion and the owner loved it.
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@Thamesvalley - always a fun thread when it gets to grading! There's no actual 'industry standard' so it really just comes down to how each brand wants to grade their bats - as a natural product, having a proper industry standard would be difficult outside of purely looking at just the cosmetics of the bat (and then do you grade at the raw cleft stage or the finished article when it could look completely different? Does the quality of the handle get taken into account etc etc?!)
In my own case, whilst I buy my bats at various predetermined 'grades', I also re-assess all the bats I receive and put them into one of my own four 'grades' so I take very little notice of what 'grade' they've been sent to me as. I downgrade more bats than anything, and it's only based on my own personal thoughts towards the looks of the willow. My return rate on bats for the past 12 months is 0.52% so I'm confident I've got the process pretty much nailed on now.
As for the performance, it's again a can of worms but I've said it no end of times to people coming in-store. I find there's such fine margins in performance between the highest and lowest grades that I'll never recommend someone spends the big bucks on a top grade unless they absolutely have their heart set on it. I'd much rather see someone leave with change in their pocket and still get a great bat. If a bats pressed properly then it almost always doesn't matter what it looks like.
Ask @velvetsky01 about my own bat, it's a mess of a 'G3' and I still can't bring myself to part with it regardless of how many times it's been stuck back together :D
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@Neon Cricket it certainly is a lovely stick! And has done lots of damage to opposition bowlers figures this season for sure
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You know what neon good on you
Iv heard so many big brands repeat the high grades means much better performance
One of them on this thread is guilty of that
The more it’s accepted the grading has no impact on the performance the better
However I’m not paying 350 400 for a bad looker, if that becomes the norm it’s not going in the right direction
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Sure this point has been made to death, but would you pay £350 for a bat guaranteed to be a gun or your money back? Suspect if you got a plank from Keeley (unlikely in my experience) they would be happy to sort you out.
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Also you need to factor in if you’re going to sell in future
If you are not then a no quibble refund is valuable
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If a bats pressed properly then it almost always doesn't matter what it looks like.
100% agree with this
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As Adam said, people will Grade differently. I've seen lots recently online as G1+ which are imo G2. However, most people buying bats don't care too much, or don't understand. A bit like how not many people consider if the bat will most likely be drier, or what handles are used etc.
I will generally clefts at the grade i got them in at or grade some down. On a rare occasion one or two will go up if after planing the face and trimming the cleft to size, certain blemishes disappear. But generally people may get a very nice G3 or G2 instead, like in my recent post for example. Which many would class as a G1 imo.
My current bat I've used now for two seasons is a G2, will be using it again this year as I love it. Grading is asthetic imo and that of many other batmakers I've spoken to.
The huge demand for willow will mean the really grainy ones become more and more rare. This will drive up their price and no doubt mean grading will change slightly spark across the grades.
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Going off topic but what would you guys grade a bat which is 50 percent heartwood
Iv seen many bats in IJC be grade 1 , but GM it would be graded to a 606 at 50 percent . Maybe a gun though
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Not sure it would be a 606. I personally don't mind heartwood and it would be whatever the willow supplier sent it as
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Without sounding rude to the batmaker as buzz has mentioned what he is doing is brave and commended in todays climate
I hope he does extremely well in his new venture
However the bat is listed as a grade 1 and ya agree it may pass as a grade 3
My own opinion would be to put it as a G2 but I have very certainly owned G1 bats from larger, longer established brands that have this sort of marking.
Also relevant, it looks quite big for the weight (and the reason for sale is given as being too light for the intended customer). In the pre-bat regs days I don't remember density being spoken about to any great extent. Weight was the big factor. Now there is an expectation of size at any given weight. It puts a big price tag on lower density
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In terms of GM without being specific about which bat grades where
They always downgrade heartwood or used to anyway
There have been some very nice bats in 606 and signature range and you can even get some clean 5-6 Grainers if you’re lucky
Things may have changed now as willow is more scarce
Will be interesting what comes out this year
I would go Keeley anyway versus wcw
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Pretty much proving the point about grading being subjective. You may think they're very nice, but some won't like heartwood. Like i said above, you still get very nice G2s and G3s. As well as some G1s which aren't as nice as other G1s maybe.
606 is their G3, so not really that unusual to get a decent looking bit of willow in that grade
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Going off topic but what would you guys grade a bat which is 50 percent heartwood
Same as with Jonny for me, it just depends on the cleft. If it's still a stunner then there's nothing stopping it being a top grade for me. I might not be a fan personally but I know a lot of people are - end of the day it's what the customer wants, not me.
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Sheesh, this thread has taken tonnes of twists and turns, from questioning the credentials of batmakers, their grading system etc etc. As they say, proof is in the pudding - if they're making an excellent bat, does it matter if they've had 5 or 40 years of experience? Not really, but the experience definitely will help in the long run with the batmaker turning a below average piece of willow into a good bat - which will give me a bit more confidence if buying blind. If you're not sure, don't buy unless you're just curious. No doubt some of the info shared has both helped and also not helped you at all with deciding @addu84 .
If you're set on either WCW or Keeley, I've not heard many bad things from either. One is quite a new player on the scene, who hasn't served any apprenticeships or anything like that, but can clearly make a pretty good bat. The other has a track record unlike any other really in the UK, and has been making bats for 40 odd years. The WCW stickers are excellent, stand out and probably some of the best in the market - and they seem to be able to press very well too. However for me personally, I'd choose Keeley, but I have visited them and am biased to a degree, as I've really enjoyed my visits and they've always been good to me. I've just found the finish better, the overall product presentation is more to my taste in terms of shaping and finishing, and I guess since I've used one to some degree of success, I'd be more inclined to go with Keeley if I were to suddenly run out of bats and was picking between these two.
As with the selling point mentioned of WCW processing their own willow - Keeley, H4L, Kippax and others also do the same. Some companies like B3 buy in A LOT of willow, so naturally will be getting in a fair bit of really nice willow. If you're after a bat with a thicker handle, then the bats I've had from both Keeley and the one WCW I've had seem to have handles on the skinnier side - this is probably one of the most important things about picking a bat, so would recommend either going for another brand, or contacting the batmakers and telling them what you want if you're dead set on the 2 brands. Another thing I'd recommend is get it sorted now when things are quieter, and before the willow price increase comes into play!
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Good read above
But as long as one is polite without any hidden agenda I don’t think there’s any issue discussing the factors above ref grading etc amongst other stuff
It beats the forum being dead which it was for days on end in the summer .
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I’m just chuckling at the idea @Chad may ever run out of bats 😆
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@Chad and all fellow members - many thanks for your advice. I have decided to go with Keeley. I will share the pictures once I receive the bat.
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Did you have any preferences in terms of what you ordered addu ?
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Under 2.10, thick handle, Kohli profile. Simples :-)
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Under 2.10, thick handle, Kohli profile. Simples :-)
What grade did you end up going for out of interest?
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Bought a Keeley off eBay for ~245. Yet to receive the bat, the bloke who sold listed it as "Keeley Worx cricket bat, 2lbs 11ozs - lovely bat which I’m told was meant for a Durham CCC sponsored player. Feels great in hand, just a little bit too light for me unfortunately. Sounds great on the mallet, it really pings."
Let me know what you guys think, this is my first Keeley. (not able to post pics, listing attached)
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Keeley-Worx-cricket-bat-/295353142877?nma=true&si=Uo1B35DADVZsI7s0Mc6ehU6nIio%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Keeley-Worx-cricket-bat-/295353142877?nma=true&si=Uo1B35DADVZsI7s0Mc6ehU6nIio%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557)
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Any links
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Not allowing me to add pics, here the eBay listing
Handle says G1
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Keeley-Worx-cricket-bat-/295353142877?nma=true&si=Uo1B35DADVZsI7s0Mc6ehU6nIio%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557 (https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Keeley-Worx-cricket-bat-/295353142877?nma=true&si=Uo1B35DADVZsI7s0Mc6ehU6nIio%253D&orig_cvip=true&nordt=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557)
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Was it 300 ?
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Was it 300 ?
245 odd inc. shipping...not received bat yet, been on lookout and bought it..price is there in listing..
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Looks a nice profile to be fair, hope you get on well with it!
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Looks a nice stick for sure, not sure if that's marks on the face or just on the scuff?