Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Your Kit => Topic started by: Sloggerz on January 07, 2023, 07:55:07 PM
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Sure, it's a grade 2 bat which I knocked it in for about an hour using an LV mallet, mainly edges and toe. Then it probably had around 8 hours net time, some machine, some net practices and about 200 runs scored in matches. It was purchased at the same time as a G1, which pinged slightly better, however the G2 has improved beyond that and I've just started the same process now on the G1. I'm hopeful that will improve in the same manor and I'll try post a review of them soon.
Did you knock the edges in over the scuff as keeley bats come with the scuffsheet already applied. Keeley do say their bats are ready to play and are tripple pressed. Just curious to see how people prepare their keeleys. They seem well pressed straight out of the packet.
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I visited the workshop to get my bats, so declined them putting on their scuff sheets, as I'm not keen on the hard hammer edge type stuff. That enabled me to then apply a linseed based wood balsam to the bat/face a few times, then start the knocking in. I like the pressing on all 3 of my Keeley's, they do seem consistant from that very small sample size.
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Did you knock the edges in over the scuff as keeley bats come with the scuffsheet already applied. Keeley do say their bats are ready to play and are tripple pressed. Just curious to see how people prepare their keeleys. They seem well pressed straight out of the packet.
No bat in the world is ready to play off a press. Triple pressing is also just marketing guff, it just means it's pressed as a raw cleft, then once partially shaped, then again when nearly finished. Means literally nothing.
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Triple pressing is also just marketing guff, it just means it's pressed as a raw cleft, then once partially shaped, then again when nearly finished. Means literally nothing.
Considering your industry infancy, that reads a little damning of a master craftsman. You've had a press maybe 12 months now?
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Considering your industry infancy, that reads a little damning of a master craftsman. You've had a press maybe 12 months now?
At no stage did I question Tim's ability, nor his expertise, I just stated a fact. You can believe it, or not, that's your call. I'm not sure how the length of time I've owned a press (coming up to 3 years but...close enough I guess) comes into it, other than in a poor attempt to belittle me because I said something that goes against your misconceptions?
Also, since we are on the topic of ad hominem fallacies, how many bats have you pressed that would qualify you to comment on my abilities or even know the difference between a bat pressed solely as a raw cleft Vs Tim's method?
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Have to say, I don't think Leachy is exactly out of line on this.
Wouldn't question the quality of Keeley pressing for a second, nor their batmaking, but that doesn't mean they're immune to a bit of marketing-speak.
Nothing wrong with it by any means, but if what they're doing with their pressing is industry standard (beyond my technical knowledge) then it's all a bit Mad Men.
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No bat in the world is ready to play off a press. Triple pressing is also just marketing guff, it just means it's pressed as a raw cleft, then once partially shaped, then again when nearly finished. Means literally nothing.
It sounds like its exactly as described then.
I will add that Ive had 8 or 9 Keeleys from new and all have been brilliant straight out of the box. Whether you believe it to be marketing guff or otherwise - their pressing is brilliant.
Not yet tried a Reaper
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If we're being honest 90% of all brands bat descriptions are marketing talk.
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It sounds like its exactly as described then.
I will add that Ive had 8 or 9 Keeleys from new and all have been brilliant straight out of the box. Whether you believe it to be marketing guff or otherwise - their pressing is brilliant.
Not yet tried a 'Reaper'
As Ive said, I never questioned Tim's ability not the quality of his bats. Clearly you don't get to where he is now by making duds.
It is technically as described, yes, but it has no effect on making a better bat, what does make his bats good is the fact he's garnered years of experience and is one of the best in the industry. Not the fact he presses it at three different stages.
I enjoy the use of quotation marks here to essentially suggest I make crap bats despite openly admitting to not using one. Haha
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No bat in the world is ready to play off a press. Triple pressing is also just marketing guff, it just means it's pressed as a raw cleft, then once partially shaped, then again when nearly finished. Means literally nothing.
While you probably could have worded this a little less confrontationally, it's a bit odd that anyone is jumping on this comment. It's basically helping inform members on what actually happens behind the description you see on the website, and in no way criticising the actual pressing, just the way it's advertised as something special.
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While you probably could have worded this a little less confrontationally, it's a bit odd that anyone is jumping on this comment. It's basically helping inform members on what actually happens behind the description you see on the website, and in no way criticising the actual pressing, just the way it's advertised as something special.
Yep, I'm finding it very odd too. Have no idea why everyone is feeling the need to essentially suggest I make crappy bats (despite openly admitting to not using one) because I told them the truth.
Agreed that maybe I could have worded it better, but to be honest, I wasn't expecting a band of TK warriors to pick it apart. Lol
But, my intention was exactly as you said in your post, that's why I lead with, no bat in the world is ready to go straight off the press.
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As Ive said, I never questioned Tim's ability not the quality of his bats. Clearly you don't get to where he is now by making duds.
It is technically as described, yes, but it has no effect on making a better bat, what does make his bats good is the fact he's garnered years of experience and is one of the best in the industry. Not the fact he presses it at three different stages.
I enjoy the use of quotation marks here to essentially suggest I make crap bats despite openly admitting to not using one. Haha
I dare say if it had no effect on making better bats then Tim probably wouldn't waste his time doing it.
I see pressing as a strength of the keeley brand so certainly worth a mention in their bat descriptions.
I could find plenty of completely irrelevant and/or generic bat descriptions which would rightly be labelled as guff.
And I think you are being a little sensitive with your last sentence there. I will remove the quotation marks now
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Almost everyone says the pressing is the key.
So what is the difference in pressing between batmakers especially those with consistent bats and others...
Seen a video by Chad where even Rob Pack says he triple presses as that is what he was taught by Bernie Facer. Ps don't think uses the term triple press but definitely mentions pressing again.
On the flip side I've heard a batmaker say something along the lines of just press the bat right no need for triple pressing.
I'm sure GM do something similar, they had 2 presses on the tour and am sure bats passed through both...
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I dare say if it had no effect on making better bats then Tim probably wouldn't waste his time doing it.
I see pressing as a strength of the keeley brand so certainly worth a mention in their bat descriptions.
I could find plenty of completely irrelevant and/or generic bat descriptions which would rightly be labelled as guff.
And I think you are being a little sensitive with your last sentence there. I will remove the quotation marks now
As I said to @SurreySam you can believe me, or not, but unfortunately it is a fact that pressing in three different stages won't make the bat better.
Think about it logically for a second...all pressing is, is compressing the fibres of the bat, do you really think the fibres react differently when some have been removed to make the cleft look like a bat?
Pressing is a strength of Tim's, correct, but it's not the fact that he presses it three different times. It could be the fact that he owns 2 different presses that perform different functions for example, or as I've said before, the fact that he's been doing this getting on 40 years.
Perhaps I was being a little sensitive, apologies.
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Almost everyone says the pressing is the key.
So what is the difference in pressing between batmakers especially those with consistent bats and others...
Seen a video by Chad where even Rob Pack says he triple presses as that is what he was taught by Bernie Facer. Ps don't think uses the term triple press but definitely mentions pressing again.
On the flip side I've heard a batmaker say something along the lines of just press the bat right no need for triple pressing.
I'm sure GM do something similar, they had 2 presses on the tour and am sure bats passed through both...
The difference between those that make consistently good bats, and those that don't? Generally the numbers they produce. GM for example are one of the oldest established brands with one of the most experienced batmakers out there (Gav) but they also make some of the worst performing bats straight out the packet, along with some of the best I've seen as well...why? Because they produce thousands of bats a year and they are pressed like a production line.
Rob pack on the other hand, produces a fraction of the quantity, so can take time to ensure each bat performs outstandingly well as his do.
Also, with regards to the 2 different presses at GM, one will be a lighter press, and one a firmer press I would imagine, one gives the initial compression without damaging the bat, then the heavier compression can start.
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As I said to @SurreySam you can believe me, or not, but unfortunately it is a fact that pressing in three different stages won't make the bat better.
Think about it logically for a second...all pressing is, is compressing the fibres of the bat, do you really think the fibres react differently when some have been removed to make the cleft look like a bat?
Pressing is a strength of Tim's, correct, but it's not the fact that he presses it three different times. It could be the fact that he owns 2 different presses that perform different functions for example, or as I've said before, the fact that he's been doing this getting on 40 years.
Perhaps I was being a little sensitive, apologies.
So are you seriously suggesting that Tim Keeley adds a completely unnecessary extra process to his manufacturing process. Consuming time and money for no gain.
I find this difficult to believe.
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So are you seriously suggesting that Tim Keeley adds a completely unnecessary extra process to his manufacturing process. Consuming time and money for no gain.
I find this difficult to believe.
I presume Tim (and co), have found a process that works for them. So much of batmaking is done on opinions, feel and experience rather than hard facts that this seems to be how most processes are formed. I'm not sure there's much 6sigma getting used in bat workshops, though I may be wrong.
I can't remember seeing any high level research into pressing, but we need to remember that there's more than one way to get to the right end result.
As I said @LEACHY48 should have worded his post a bit less conformationally, but the intention seemed to be to inform, rather than to attack the Keeley's bat making. Regardless of anyone opinions of his bats, if we're going to attack any batmaker (regardless of who they are) giving an opinion on here we'll likely eventually find not many of them bother posting.
If pressing at multiple stages of the process or not helps, I've no idea, maybe we could have a more constructive debate about that? Anyone know any possible reasons for doing so?
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So are you seriously suggesting that Tim Keeley adds a completely unnecessary extra process to his manufacturing process. Consuming time and money for no gain.
I find this difficult to believe.
No, I'm seriously suggesting that it's easier to feel the final response of a bat once it's got a handle in it, so that will be the reason he "final presses" once it's got one in it. Doesn't make it a better bat.
It's also not an "extra process" it's just a part of the 1 process of pressing, he couldn't send out under pressed bats, no one would buy them.
Ed Garrard (seems to be very highly regarded on here) does a "double press" the raw cleft gets some pressure through it, then it gets shaped on a spindle moulder and the majority of the pressing is finished, does that automatically make his bats worse than Tim's?
Gray Nicolls only press once. does that make them instantly worse than Tim?
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No, I'm seriously suggesting that it's easier to feel the final response of a bat once it's got a handle in it, so that will be the reason he "final presses" once it's got one in it. Doesn't make it a better bat.
It's also not an "extra process" it's just a part of the 1 process of pressing, he couldn't send out under pressed bats, no one would buy them.
Ed Garrard (seems to be very highly regarded on here) does a "double press" the raw cleft gets some pressure through it, then it gets shaped on a spindle moulder and the majority of the pressing is finished, does that automatically make his bats worse than Tim's?
Gray Nicolls only press once. does that make them instantly worse than Tim?
I must have misunderstood you somewhere along the conversation with regard to saying it wont make a difference. My belief would be that everything in the Keeley process would make a difference otherwise they wouldn't waste money doing it.
Do you mean that it doesnt make any difference doing 1 or 3 presses if the same amount of pressure is applied in total?
My experience of UK Gray Nicholls is that they aren't ready to use anywhere near as soon as Keeley.
Not sure if thats the reason.
Never used a Garrard.
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And I agree with @LEACHY48 on pressing. It's a marketing thing for the ones who are less knowledgeables.
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Considering your industry infancy, that reads a little damning of a master craftsman. You've had a press maybe 12 months now?
And people may wonder why new bat makers or people that have been around on here a long time don’t bother as much anymore.
What @LEACHY48 has said is exactly what triple pressing is and as has been said has no impact on it therefore being better than any other bat out there
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And people may wonder why new bat makers or people that have been around on here a long time don’t bother as much anymore.
What @LEACHY48 has said is exactly what triple pressing is and as has been said has no impact on it therefore being better than any other bat out there
Couldn't be more right mate.
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I agree. We should be encouraging batmakers on here, especially those new to it. Otherwise batmaking and this forum will die a death. No need for snide comments.
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Surely pressing is superseded once a few hundred balls have been hit?
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When i was chatting to a batmaker last year about buying a knocking in machine, he said i was better off buying a press and set it up to finish the bat off than using a knocking in machine. I presume this is what keeley do. Also i think there is a retailer in aus that does a press as to finish a bat off
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As someone who has never even seen a press, what's the difference between making a rock hard GM and a ready to play Keeley?
Seems a difficult process to get right.
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As someone who has never even seen a press, what's the difference between making a rock hard GM and a ready to play Keeley?
Seems a difficult process to get right.
The difference really is the skill of the bat maker. As each piece of willow is unique it takes a high level of skill to get the best results performance wise from each cleft. This is why often bats are pressed twice once for example would be an initial press at for example 500lbs of pressure per sq inch. The bat maker then may use a mallet to check response and adjust to suit that cleft. Others as you say maybe GM ( never been so don’t know for sure) due to number made May just press on mass at say 1000lb of pressure per sq inch and that means some will initially respons better than others.
Basically it’s a tough task to get right and that’s probably why there are so many different ways it’s done.
Just for the record GM isn’t a hard press per se they still by and large respond well initially but have a firmer feel due to very stiff handles. Again my view on GM as I think it’s often said the press is hard
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Marketing marketing I remember when I worked at B3 they started rock hard then got pressed lighter then even lighter than firmer coining the term ready press.
The trick still and always will be to optimum press bats to get performance whilst still keeping the bat in one piece. Think a properly pressed bat needs little work.
Bit like when you’re tapping a bat up why do people tap the middle (that should be a given) you should look under and above the middle.
Recently went to Romida and wouldn’t buy or be given a GM rock hard bats are both stiff handled and pressed too hard for my liking a bat shouldn’t take a year to knock in
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Great thread... Soooo many questions. First one, @LEACHY48 please:
In your experience, does pressing highlight potential for storm damage in the willow?
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Not saying mine's an expert view but a lot is made of pressing, as with other aspects of crickets bats and imo these things become almost 'mythical'. If you listened to some batmakers then you wouldn't buy a bat from anyone who haven't been pressing 20 off years (even tho they too once hadn't pressed a bat). It's like no relatively new batmaker could ever produce a bat as good.
In my opinion if you've played the game and know how a bat should feel, then you press until you reach that point. Whether that's in a one stage press or ten stage, you're getting the right outcome. If it doesn't feel right for wherever reason, then you decide as a brand if you're happy that it leaves the workshop.
I'm not sure I buy the soft press, hard press thing really. Surely every bat needs to be pressed to ensure it performs? Yes you can obviously press them more, but underpressed (softer) wouldn't increase performance surely? The handles can make a difference to the feel too imo, as Soulman mentioned. Thicker and better quality handles to me feel stiffer, but the bat will still perform yet open up in time and not be as prone to causing issues early. Just my opinion based on what I've used, seen and repaired.
The other factor I'd like to test is how the moisture content affects it and if drier willow presses/performs differently. Just need to sort a few bits before experimenting.
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Not saying mine's an expert view but a lot is made of pressing, as with other aspects of crickets bats and imo these things become almost 'mythical'. If you listened to some batmakers then you wouldn't buy a bat from anyone who haven't been pressing 20 off years (even tho they too once hadn't pressed a bat). It's like no relatively new batmaker could ever produce a bat as good.
In my opinion if you've played the game and know how a bat should feel, then you press until you reach that point. Whether that's in a one stage press or ten stage, you're getting the right outcome. If it doesn't feel right for wherever reason, then you decide as a brand if you're happy that it leaves the workshop.
I'm not sure I buy the soft press, hard press thing really. Surely every bat needs to be pressed to ensure it performs? Yes you can obviously press them more, but underpressed (softer) wouldn't increase performance surely? The handles can make a difference to the feel too imo, as Soulman mentioned. Thicker and better quality handles to me feel stiffer, but the bat will still perform yet open up in time and not be as prone to causing issues early. Just my opinion based on what I've used, seen and repaired.
The other factor I'd like to test is how the moisture content affects it and if drier willow presses/performs differently. Just need to sort a few bits before experimenting.
Couldn’t agree more 90 per cent of bats are the same I guess you buy from people you like and trust….
We could go down the loosening of the handle techniques and then the oven baked press bake bean style!!! But that’s crazy for another day.
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The other factor I'd like to test is how the moisture content affects it and if drier willow presses/performs differently. Just need to sort a few bits before experimenting.
Little that beats a forum experiment, DEAL ME IN!
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Little that beats a forum experiment, DEAL ME IN!
Just need a £400 moisture metre, a kiln and the time mate! 🤔
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Just need a £400 moisture metre, a kiln and the time mate! 🤔
Borrow one, I provide one, and stop replying to jokers on WhatsApp 😁
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Borrow one, I provide one, and stop replying to jokers on WhatsApp 😁
I have just what’s Appel him what you implying David…..
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I have just what’s Appel him what you implying David…..
I think he was talking about himself tbh mate, but if the cap fits! 😂
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Great thread... Soooo many questions. First one, @LEACHY48 please:
In your experience, does pressing highlight potential for storm damage in the willow?
I wouldn't say it highlights storm damage, perhaps storm damaged clefts are more likely to suffer pressing damage, but I can't say I've had much storm damaged will to test my theory to be honest. Our supplier are excellent with regards to sending us high quality wood.
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Not saying mine's an expert view but a lot is made of pressing, as with other aspects of crickets bats and imo these things become almost 'mythical'. If you listened to some batmakers then you wouldn't buy a bat from anyone who haven't been pressing 20 off years (even tho they too once hadn't pressed a bat). It's like no relatively new batmaker could ever produce a bat as good.
In my opinion if you've played the game and know how a bat should feel, then you press until you reach that point. Whether that's in a one stage press or ten stage, you're getting the right outcome. If it doesn't feel right for wherever reason, then you decide as a brand if you're happy that it leaves the workshop.
I'm not sure I buy the soft press, hard press thing really. Surely every bat needs to be pressed to ensure it performs? Yes you can obviously press them more, but underpressed (softer) wouldn't increase performance surely? The handles can make a difference to the feel too imo, as Soulman mentioned. Thicker and better quality handles to me feel stiffer, but the bat will still perform yet open up in time and not be as prone to causing issues early. Just my opinion based on what I've used, seen and repaired.
The other factor I'd like to test is how the moisture content affects it and if drier willow presses/performs differently. Just need to sort a few bits before experimenting.
Very true mate. As controversial a figure he is, Aldred has it right when he says "press to feel".
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When i was chatting to a batmaker last year about buying a knocking in machine, he said i was better off buying a press and set it up to finish the bat off than using a knocking in machine. I presume this is what keeley do. Also i think there is a retailer in aus that does a press as to finish a bat off
As an owner of both, I personally would never ever send a bat out straight off the press as "ready to play" I am yet to come across any bat from and brand that I would take straight into a game personally.
I'm sure somewhere there is a topic on knocking Vs pressing, and why one is superior in terms of preparation.
Found it: http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=33857.msg533580#msg533580 (http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=33857.msg533580#msg533580)