A (de)Pressing Thread
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alba caerulea

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Re: A (de)Pressing Thread
« Reply #15 on: January 09, 2023, 10:09:45 AM »

As I said to @SurreySam you can believe me, or not, but unfortunately it is a fact that pressing in three different stages won't make the bat better.

Think about it logically for a second...all pressing is, is compressing the fibres of the bat, do you really think the fibres react differently when some have been removed to make the cleft look like a bat?

Pressing is a strength of Tim's, correct, but it's not the fact that he presses it three different times. It could be the fact that he owns 2 different presses that perform different functions for example, or as I've said before, the fact that he's been doing this getting on 40 years.

Perhaps I was being a little sensitive, apologies.

So are you seriously suggesting that Tim Keeley adds a completely unnecessary extra process to his manufacturing process. Consuming time and money for no gain.

I find this difficult to believe.

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Kulli

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Re: A (de)Pressing Thread
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2023, 10:16:10 AM »

So are you seriously suggesting that Tim Keeley adds a completely unnecessary extra process to his manufacturing process. Consuming time and money for no gain.

I find this difficult to believe.

I presume Tim (and co), have found a process that works for them. So much of batmaking is done on opinions, feel and experience rather than hard facts that this seems to be how most processes are formed. I'm not sure there's much 6sigma getting used in bat workshops, though I may be wrong.

I can't remember seeing any high level research into pressing, but we need to remember that there's more than one way to get to the right end result.

As I said @LEACHY48 should have worded his post a bit less conformationally, but the intention seemed to be to inform, rather than to attack the Keeley's bat making. Regardless of anyone opinions of his bats, if we're going to attack any batmaker (regardless of who they are) giving an opinion on here we'll likely eventually find not many of them bother posting.

If pressing at multiple stages of the process or not helps, I've no idea, maybe we could have a more constructive debate about that? Anyone know any possible reasons for doing so?
« Last Edit: January 09, 2023, 10:22:30 AM by Kulli »
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LEACHY48

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Re: A (de)Pressing Thread
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2023, 10:16:44 AM »

So are you seriously suggesting that Tim Keeley adds a completely unnecessary extra process to his manufacturing process. Consuming time and money for no gain.

I find this difficult to believe.

No, I'm seriously suggesting that it's easier to feel the final response of a bat once it's got a handle in it, so that will be the reason he "final presses" once it's got one in it. Doesn't make it a better bat.

It's also not an "extra process" it's just a part of the 1 process of pressing, he couldn't send out under pressed bats, no one would buy them.

Ed Garrard (seems to be very highly regarded on here) does a "double press" the raw cleft gets some pressure through it, then it gets shaped on a spindle moulder and the majority of the pressing is finished, does that automatically make his bats worse than Tim's?

Gray Nicolls only press once. does that make them instantly worse than Tim?

« Last Edit: January 09, 2023, 10:27:32 AM by LEACHY48 »
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alba caerulea

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Re: A (de)Pressing Thread
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2023, 10:35:42 AM »

No, I'm seriously suggesting that it's easier to feel the final response of a bat once it's got a handle in it, so that will be the reason he "final presses" once it's got one in it. Doesn't make it a better bat.

It's also not an "extra process" it's just a part of the 1 process of pressing, he couldn't send out under pressed bats, no one would buy them.

Ed Garrard (seems to be very highly regarded on here) does a "double press" the raw cleft gets some pressure through it, then it gets shaped on a spindle moulder and the majority of the pressing is finished, does that automatically make his bats worse than Tim's?

Gray Nicolls only press once. does that make them instantly worse than Tim?

I must have misunderstood you somewhere along the conversation with regard to saying it wont make a difference. My belief would be that everything in the Keeley process would make a difference otherwise they wouldn't waste money doing it.

Do you mean that it doesnt make any difference doing 1 or 3 presses if the same amount of pressure is applied in total?

My experience of UK Gray Nicholls is that they aren't ready to use anywhere near as soon as Keeley.
Not sure if thats the reason.

Never used a Garrard.
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MichaelM

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Re: A (de)Pressing Thread
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2023, 12:51:17 PM »

And I agree with @LEACHY48 on pressing. It's a marketing thing for the ones who are less knowledgeables.
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SOULMAN1012

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Re: A (de)Pressing Thread
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2023, 06:34:31 PM »

Considering your industry infancy, that reads a little damning of a master craftsman. You've had a press maybe 12 months now?

And people may wonder why new bat makers or people that have been around on here a long time don’t bother as much anymore.

What @LEACHY48 has said is exactly what triple pressing is and as has been said has no impact on it therefore being better than any other bat out there
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LEACHY48

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Re: A (de)Pressing Thread
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2023, 06:35:23 PM »

And people may wonder why new bat makers or people that have been around on here a long time don’t bother as much anymore.

What @LEACHY48 has said is exactly what triple pressing is and as has been said has no impact on it therefore being better than any other bat out there

Couldn't be more right mate.
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golders

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Re: A (de)Pressing Thread
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2023, 08:20:05 PM »

I agree. We should be encouraging batmakers on here, especially those new to it. Otherwise batmaking and this forum will die a death. No need for snide comments.
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: A (de)Pressing Thread
« Reply #23 on: January 09, 2023, 11:31:23 PM »

Surely pressing is superseded once a few hundred balls have been hit?
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Six Sixes Cricket

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Re: A (de)Pressing Thread
« Reply #24 on: January 10, 2023, 01:38:52 PM »

When i was chatting to a batmaker last year about buying a knocking in machine, he said i was better off buying a press and set it up to finish the bat off than using a knocking in machine. I presume this is what keeley do. Also i think there is a retailer in aus that does a press as to finish a bat off

Bungle

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Re: A (de)Pressing Thread
« Reply #25 on: January 10, 2023, 02:49:36 PM »

As someone who has never even seen a press, what's the difference between making a rock hard GM and a ready to play Keeley?

Seems a difficult process to get right.
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SOULMAN1012

Re: A (de)Pressing Thread
« Reply #26 on: January 10, 2023, 03:09:25 PM »

As someone who has never even seen a press, what's the difference between making a rock hard GM and a ready to play Keeley?

Seems a difficult process to get right.

The difference really is the skill of the bat maker. As each piece of willow is unique it takes a high level of skill to get the best results performance wise from each cleft. This is why often bats are pressed twice once for example would be an initial press at for example 500lbs of pressure per sq inch. The bat maker then may use a mallet to check response and adjust to suit that cleft. Others as you say maybe GM ( never been so don’t know for sure) due to number made May just press on mass at say 1000lb of pressure per sq inch and that means some will initially respons better than others.

Basically it’s a tough task to get right and that’s probably why there are so many different ways it’s done.

Just for the record GM isn’t a hard press per se they still by and large respond well initially but have a firmer feel due to very stiff handles. Again my view on GM as I think it’s often said the press is hard
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procricket

Re: A (de)Pressing Thread
« Reply #27 on: January 10, 2023, 03:52:44 PM »

Marketing marketing I remember when I worked at B3 they started rock hard then got pressed lighter then even lighter than firmer coining the term ready press.

The trick still and always will be to optimum press bats to get performance whilst still keeping the bat in one piece. Think a properly pressed bat needs little work.

Bit like when you’re tapping a bat up why do people tap the middle (that should be a given) you should look under and above the middle.

Recently went to Romida and wouldn’t buy or be given a GM rock hard bats are both stiff handled and pressed too hard for my liking a bat shouldn’t take a year to knock in
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thegowerwaft

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Re: A (de)Pressing Thread
« Reply #28 on: January 10, 2023, 03:53:52 PM »

Great thread... Soooo many questions. First one, @LEACHY48 please:

In your experience, does pressing highlight potential for storm damage in the willow?
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jonny77

Re: A (de)Pressing Thread
« Reply #29 on: January 10, 2023, 05:09:09 PM »

Not saying mine's an expert view but a lot is made of pressing, as with other aspects of crickets bats and imo these things become almost 'mythical'. If you listened to some batmakers then you wouldn't buy a bat from anyone who haven't been pressing 20 off years (even tho they too once hadn't pressed a bat). It's like no relatively new batmaker could ever produce a bat as good.

 In my opinion if you've played the game and know how a bat should feel, then you press until you reach that point. Whether that's in a one stage press or ten stage, you're getting the right outcome. If it doesn't feel right for wherever reason, then you decide as a brand if you're happy that it leaves the workshop.

I'm not sure I buy the soft press, hard press thing really. Surely every bat needs to be pressed to ensure it performs? Yes you can obviously press them more, but underpressed (softer) wouldn't increase performance surely? The handles can make a difference to the feel too imo, as Soulman mentioned. Thicker and better quality handles to me feel stiffer, but the bat will still perform yet open up in time and not be as prone to causing issues early. Just my opinion based on what I've used, seen and repaired.

The other factor I'd like to test is how the moisture content affects it and if drier willow presses/performs differently. Just need to sort a few bits before experimenting.

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