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General Cricket => World Cricket => England => Topic started by: FattusCattus on March 03, 2023, 10:07:03 PM

Title: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: FattusCattus on March 03, 2023, 10:07:03 PM
If all were fit and available, what would the best possible ODI side that England could put out (I bet it's tricky to agree!)

It's looking good at the moment, we could pr0bably put 2 good sides out - however what is our top XI - here's my twopennerth!

Roy
Bairstow
Malan
Brook
Butler
Livingstone
Moeen
Curran
Rashid
Wood
Archer

12th man - Willey
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: Jimbo on March 03, 2023, 10:49:26 PM
I can't see past Root as the best ODI number 3, his record is outrageously good.
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: jonny77 on March 03, 2023, 11:00:03 PM
Yep, Root in for me and Stokes if fit for Livingston. There second 11 and reserves ain't bad either....

Salt
Hales
Duckett
Vince
Livingston
Jacks
Billings
Willey
Dawson/Topley
Mahmood
Woakes

Stone
Wood
Jordan
Ahmed
Gregory
Carse
Potts
Crawley
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: Buzz on March 03, 2023, 11:07:11 PM
Root is our best ever odi player and is first name on the team sheet.
Reece Topley can't be far away.
The second team is good as any around.

Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: Jimbo on March 03, 2023, 11:10:45 PM
C Team beat  (an admittedly depleted) Pakistan, that speaks volumes.
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: LEACHY48 on March 04, 2023, 01:38:41 AM

Best side for me is

Bairstow
Roy
Malan
Root
Buttler
Stokes/brook
Ali
Woakes
Rashid
Archer
Topley
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: SD on March 04, 2023, 03:48:14 AM
There was a time when this would be a difficult exercise to come up with 11 players worth selecting. Hard to imagine now that there was a time in recent memory when England went to a world cup with Gary Ballance as a first choice player.

My strongest side for the World Cup would be

Hales
Bairstow
Root
Brook
Butler
Livingstone
Ali
Sam Curran
Rashid
Archer
Wood
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: six and out on March 04, 2023, 07:17:17 AM
It's ridiculous to think the difference from not even 10 years ago - it was 2015 World Cup disaster which changed everything.

My World Cup side would be -

Roy
Bairstow
Root
Brook
Buttler
Livingstone
Ali
Curran
Rashid
Wood
Archer

Very very tempted by Hales instead of Roy but he has shown he comes good on the big stage and Hales only chance to play an ODI by the time the WC comes is in September.

Malan is the hardest one to fit in TBH. But I can't see past Root and Brook.

Bowlers - Topley, Willey, Woakes, Ahmed may go as spin back up as well.

Anyone know what the WC squad size is their allowed to pick?
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: Jimbo on March 04, 2023, 08:50:39 AM
15 isn't it?
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: King pair on March 04, 2023, 09:17:06 AM
Malan is going to be hard done to but ultimately there is only 1 place for someone to be the ‘glue’ and unfortunately, Malan is just ‘diet root’

It’s also hard to ignore what Hales has done and continues to do in franchise leagues (albeit T20) so it’s hard to pick between the 2 of them really

Stokes also has to play if we are assuming everyone is available

Roy/ Hales
Bairstow
Root
Brook
Buttler
Stokes
Ali
Curran
Rashid
Archer
Wood


Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: Buzz on March 04, 2023, 09:37:37 AM
I suspect the team will be something like

Bairstow
Malan
Root
Brook
Buttler
Stokes
Ali
Curran
Rashid
Archer
Wood

The team has to be set up to play in India and Malan is better in the sub continent than Roy. Bairstow's IPL performances make him a shoe in assuming fitness.
The question here really is around Stokes.
Will he be able to bowl his overs. Will he even be available. If Stokes isn't available then we may see Liam Livingston

Tough call to have to choose between Malan and Roy...

Also in the squad will be Roy, Livingston, Topley, Willey and Woakes (assuming 16 man squad)
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: Jimbo on March 04, 2023, 10:03:34 AM
I'd consider Jacks over Livingston, his bowling has been pretty handy of late.
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: Buzz on March 04, 2023, 10:47:32 AM
Possibly, it will be interesting to see what happens over the next few months in the run up to the world cup. There is lots of cricket to play... I think Jacks' has more potential than Livingston but Livi is ahead of him in the pecking order at the moment
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: six and out on March 04, 2023, 12:49:58 PM
I suspect the team will be something like

Bairstow
Malan
Root
Brook
Buttler
Stokes
Ali
Curran
Rashid
Archer
Wood

The team has to be set up to play in India and Malan is better in the sub continent than Roy. Bairstow's IPL performances make him a shoe in assuming fitness.
The question here really is around Stokes.
Will he be able to bowl his overs. Will he even be available. If Stokes isn't available then we may see Liam Livingston

Tough call to have to choose between Malan and Roy...

Also in the squad will be Roy, Livingston, Topley, Willey and Woakes (assuming 16 man squad)

Yep I was picking mine on the basis that Stokes was unavailable. Him being able to bowl is an interesting point. It being in India also means Root is a bowling option so maybe not as much pressure to get as many overs from him.
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: cricketbadger on March 04, 2023, 03:31:53 PM
Think Stokes is a wasted pick and sends the wrong message to other players who warrant a spot more.

Root has to be involved
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: jonny77 on March 04, 2023, 03:51:30 PM
Think Stokes is a wasted pick and sends the wrong message to other players who warrant a spot more.

Root has to be involved

Interesting take. Who warrants a spot more than Stokes? Huge big game player and for me a definite if fit. I know we don't live in the past but the guy hasn't done bad in recent world cups!

If he's not 100% though I'd go Livingston over Jacks currently.
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: cricketbadger on March 04, 2023, 04:44:38 PM
Well he's not 100% fit for starters. And with it being in the sub continent you'd want spinning all rounders IMO. Not knocking his ability obviously, but a Jacks or Livi would be a better option and more beneficial for the future.

He retired for a reason, what that exact reason is I don't know. But I'd prefer him to concentrate on his fitness and test career as captain and leader
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: Jimbo on March 04, 2023, 05:27:45 PM
He does seem like he's knacked himself properly this time.
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: Buzz on March 04, 2023, 08:37:49 PM
He does seem like he's knacked himself properly this time.

Possibly this.
Apparently there is a sergical solution, but Stokes is holding off due to the IPL. And he has £1.6(ish) million reasons why that is the case.

No one could possibly argue that he shouldn't be in the team. His batting in the finals on the last two world cups have been instrumental in the result.
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: Jimbo on March 04, 2023, 10:08:57 PM
I'd power through for £1.5m as well I reckon 😂
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: SD on March 05, 2023, 09:42:44 AM
Stokes' bowling action places a big strain in his front knee and ankle by jumping wide in his delivery stride then pivoting inwards to deliver the ball.  Given the knee cartridge problem he has, I am not sure how much longer he can play as a genuine all rounder.
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: Manormanic on March 05, 2023, 02:30:43 PM
I reckon he will make himself available, its just too big of a lure not to.  I also think he might jack bowling in after.

Our best XI...every time I think about it, something happens to change my mind.  The one thing I would be firm on is, I would not have Roy in there any longer, he is just too streaky.

So today's First XI is:

Duckett or Malan
Bairstow
Root
Brook
Buttler
Stokes
Ali
Curran
Rashid
Archer
Wood
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: FattusCattus on March 05, 2023, 07:53:28 PM
I don't get why everyone wants to shoehorn Stokes back in - he made a choice to quit the 50 over stuff, his knee is knacked and I don't feel he was amazing ODi bowler anyway.

Which leaves his explosive ODI batting to commend him, and that is a situation where we already have the likes of Livingstone, Jacks, Malan, Hales and Duckett floating around as reserve pics.

I say leave him out of consideration this time (he's won a World Cup already), let him concentrate on revolutionising Test cricket and let one of the above mentioned become a new legend.
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: jonny77 on March 05, 2023, 08:47:42 PM
I don't get why everyone wants to shoehorn Stokes back in - he made a choice to quit the 50 over stuff, his knee is knacked and I don't feel he was amazing ODi bowler anyway.

Which leaves his explosive ODI batting to commend him, and that is a situation where we already have the likes of Livingstone, Jacks, Malan, Hales and Duckett floating around as reserve pics.

I say leave him out of consideration this time (he's won a World Cup already), let him concentrate on revolutionising Test cricket and let one of the above mentioned become a new legend.

Think you answered your own question there mate, He's won a world cup. No Stokes, probably no world cup win. I appreciate his injuries and kind of agree, but it's hard to leave out a true, vastly experienced match winner if he's available imo.

The rest you mentioned are good players, but they don't have the stature, presence or experience under the pump in the crucial moments which Stokes has.
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: Buzz on March 05, 2023, 08:57:19 PM
*he has won 2 World Cups.
Managing the chase in the final both times.
Second name on the team sheet after Jos for me.
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: Jimbo on March 05, 2023, 09:01:24 PM
There's a lot to be said for having experienced 'winners' in your team. See it all the time in football, clubs will sign someone who is used to winning to improve the mentality of their squad.
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: cricketbadger on March 06, 2023, 06:17:24 AM
*he has won 2 World Cups.
Managing the chase in the final both times.
Second name on the team sheet after Jos for me.

Rashid's the 2nd name on the teamsheet, 8 days a week
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: alba caerulea on March 06, 2023, 11:00:37 AM
Twin leg spinners today, never thought id see the day!
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: Buzz on March 06, 2023, 01:15:40 PM
Rashid's the 2nd name on the teamsheet, 8 days a week

Morgan's ability to captain his spinners has had a bigger influence on English cricket than the positive batting approach.

Just imagine what would have happened to Rashid as a white ball spinner if Cook and then Root were white ball captains...
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: Alvaro on March 06, 2023, 02:36:29 PM
The last time two frontline legspinners played for England together was 1947: Doug Wright and Eric Hollies.
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: Manormanic on March 07, 2023, 10:30:13 PM
Just imagine what would have happened to Rashid as a white ball spinner if Cook and then Root were white ball captains...

Just imagine what might have happened to him as a Test spinner if Morgan was red ball captain...
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: edge on March 08, 2023, 08:08:28 AM
English cricket fans never cease to amaze - there genuinely seems to be a fair number of people out there who'd leave out Stokes and Root.

The fun bit of course is that I think we don't play another ODI before they select the squad? Which makes the choice of a few spots a bit interesting given there's a few candidates who've barely played ODIs recently.

Root, Buttler, Moeen, Rashid, Archer and Wood would seem absolute nailed on 1xt XI picks. Brook is probably 90% likely.
Two from Bairstow/Roy/Malan, right now you'd probably guess Bairstow and Malan but Bairstow's fitness and Roy's importance to England in big games in the past could both come into it.
Stokes if he's available, which looks less likely right now given he's off to ruin his knee further at the IPL. If not then it's Livingstone vs Jacks for no 6.
Woakes vs Curran - tricky. Woakes better with the new ball or at coming in and supporting a top order bat, Curran more versatile with the ball and a bigger hitter.
That's your 1st XI, plus whoever didn't make it from Woakes/Curran makes 12. Three spots left - you'd think we'll take a spare spinner, so Rehan or Dawson. Another seamer, which would seem the most open spot (I'd be very tempted by an in form Mahmood). Then pick one spare batter from the non-selected opener and all-rounder. Looks a strong squad!

What's the side if all of those get avian flu at the last minute? Maybe something like:
Salt
Hales
Duckett
Hain
Vince
Billings
Abell
Willey
Carse
Stone
Crane
Looks alright that...
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: alba caerulea on March 08, 2023, 07:59:53 PM
145 from 63 from Jason Roy today in the PSL. And wasn't in our WC squad a few months ago

It really is an embarrassment of riches considering where we were 10 years ago
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: Alvaro on March 08, 2023, 08:19:13 PM
The boundaries were mega small though. The WPL ones look longer!
Title: Re: An Embarrassment of Riches
Post by: alba caerulea on March 08, 2023, 08:47:45 PM
The boundaries were mega small though. The WPL ones look longer!

Not small enough for t20 specialist Will Smeed