Custom Bats Cricket Forum
Equipment => Bats => Bat Care => Topic started by: lexx on June 19, 2010, 11:28:01 AM
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Yes its that old topic again! I had a good look through the forum at all the topics about knocking in and i just want everyone opinions about this subject.
When i buy a new blade i will always get a bat mallet(not a ball on a stick) and spend 4 hours hitting the toe area,edges of the bat and that's it.
Apply some oil and once that's dried apply either a protective face or some bat tape on the edges.
Then i will take it in the nets and have some gentle throw downs with older cricket balls and build it up from there.
Now i have heard from a few people that spend up too 8 hours knocking in so do you think that's too much? Whats are people's thoughts on this? :)
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dont you do the whole face? i just do everything apart from the back. Know one has ever taught me how to knock in a bat -all I know it that you should spend about 8 hours and I use a ball in a footy sock instead of a mallet :(
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I never do the face of the bat,only the toe and the edges with a bat mallet.Thats how i was told too do it and have done so on every bat i have owned.This is interesting how different people do different things and is there a right or wrong way?? And yes never do the back of the bat ; )
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I do approx 2 hours light tapping, gradually banging it harder with a mallet until the 4 hour mark. I do the whole face, with particular attention to the edges and toe. I'll then do a general tap around the bat to test the ping, looking for dead spots. If I find a dead spot, ie. a part of the bat that doesn't go as well as the ajoining sections, then I give it 10-15 mins on that spot.Some willow needs extra knocking in to come to life.
I then hit a few balls with the bat. Something like using it for fielding practise or throw downs give a good indicator of how ready it is. Couple of my players commented my latest bat could do with some extra knocking in on the toe as it felt a bit "dead" - so back it went. If you see seam marks across the bat, put it away and give it another 30-60 mins. Keep doing this until the face doesn't mark and you should be finished. I've done roughly 5-6 hours on my latest bat.
I oil before knocking in and apply a full face protective sheet after knocking in is finished, just to minimise damage to anything I've missed.
The more knocking in the better - but 8 hours is a maximum I guess.
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Between 10 and 20 minutes knocking in, face and oil, ready to play.
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On my current bat did 15 mins on each edge half hour on the toe then face oil and play as that was what was advised by the above and it's line nothing I have ever used
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Its having confidence in the bat's pressing. I advise a touch more than I do for others as if it goes wrong for me I'll only have myself to blame.
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Well I just did as was told an it flys so am a happy customer get a few comments about the size of the bat but ok one team said it was too big for me being I'm 6 ft 4 and 17 stone I found that quite funny
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Got an 11 stone stick insect using a carbon copy, he gets no stick as he is the divisions leading run scorer, he got another unbeaten 100 today with it.
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Cheeky 67 today having my worst season for 7 years this year
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Remember reading somewhere that certain pro's have as little knocking in as possible. My old hunts county got about 30 mins on the edges and always played fine, until it finally split on one too many yokers...
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On my current bat did 15 mins on each edge half hour on the toe then face oil and play as that was what was advised by the above and it's line nothing I have ever used
Roco what bat have you got and are talking about here?
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that is the talisman perfect storm mate
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I take it to Dan at Chase to use his machine for about 20/30 mins then its good to go,
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that is the talisman perfect storm mate
good bat then i take it?
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very very good but my second talisman one off mike is better
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I've got one on its way and im expecting good things from everything ive heard :)
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I've got one on its way and im expecting good things from everything ive heard :)
How many bats do you have in your collection? are you becoming Pete Hosk for a new generation.
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very very good but my second talisman one off mike is better
Pics please
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How many bats do you have in your collection? are you becoming Pete Hosk for a new generation.
haha i'm not quite that bad, but have definitely got a thing for a nice bit of willow....
i currently have 4-5 but will be getting rid of a couple soon......
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Pics please
I think there is pics up, Its based on the Sachin Profile, its a nice stick,
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Just going back to the topic (!), how long do people spend on knocking in? I don't think I've ever got beyond 2 hours out of sheer boredom. More likely to take it to the local sports shop who do that kind of thing ofr £25.
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I can remember being told about 8 hours as a kid, but recently i think i spend about an hour an then see how it goes in the nets, i think you can feel if it needs a bit more, i always put a face on just incase tho, i always used to get mine knocked in at leatherhead's Romida but havent for a while now.... as alot of bats come pre knocked in these days
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would be best to ask the batmaker as to how long they would recommend as they know how its been pressed etc
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You can go to Basingstoke at dummer, They generally charge £20 and will run it in via machine, Then i do an hour or two of throw downs, Then some gentle net sessions,
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have sent you the topic and i generally ask the maker as all bats are different so easier to ask them as they know how hard/soft the bat is pressed etc plus they made the thing but cant go wrong with the chase knocking in machine from what i have heard
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On my redback, gary included instructions and it said 10-15 10 minutes sessions
I have done an hour and a quarter, oiled and applied a scuff sheet.
It still feels a little dead, do i need to do more?
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On my redback, gary included instructions and it said 10-15 10 minutes sessions
I have done an hour and a quarter, oiled and applied a scuff sheet.
It still feels a little dead, do i need to do more?
I knocked my redback in for about 3 hours of bowling machine use, Then it was good to go,
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One for the batmakers: How does knocking in the bat improve the ping? I would expect that the characteristics of the majority of the willow don't change when knocking in. You are simply hardening the surface to reduce damage? Or am I missing something?
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My redback. . .took a bit of while to get going. . . .but now. . .its excellent.
bats mature with usage. . . .dont ask me why . . .maybe norbs can explain.
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Blimey you kids nowadays....
When a bat is pressed it creates a stiff surface layer on the face of the bat. If you press it to hard the willow fibre’s combine together to deeply into the wood and the blade has no real rebound [ping] If it is to soft then lots and lots gentle knocking is required to stiffen up the blade and then more rigourous knocking. At the end of the day we all hope that we don’t get an over pressed bat and then the basic idea is stiffen the surface
(http://www.cricket-stuff.co.uk/images/kncokint5.jpg)
Knocking In
On the left side is surface stiffness along the bottom is hours spent knocking in.
Look at the dot shape and 0hrs of knocking in and then at 4 hours. The surface stiffness has doubled!!!!
So what has happened - The core of the bat is left unhardened resulting in a more elastic response of the bat.
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knocking in will protect the surface of the bat from cracking as it will gently compress the willow fibres, rather than have the full force of the ball when the surface is 'soft'. However I guess it is likely that this 'compression' will also affect the bat's coefficent of restitution which is essential for a good 'ping'...
see http://www.laverwood.co.nz/newsletter/5.htm
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Blimey you kids nowadays....
When a bat is pressed it creates a stiff surface layer on the face of the bat. If you press it to hard the willow fibre’s combine together to deeply into the wood and the blade has no real rebound [ping] If it is to soft then lots and lots gentle knocking is required to stiffen up the blade and then more rigourous knocking. At the end of the day we all hope that we don’t get an over pressed bat and then the basic idea is stiffen the surface
([url]http://www.cricket-stuff.co.uk/images/kncokint5.jpg[/url])
Knocking In
On the left side is surface stiffness along the bottom is hours spent knocking in.
Look at the dot shape and 0hrs of knocking in and then at 4 hours. The surface stiffness has doubled!!!!
So what has happened - The core of the bat is left unhardened resulting in a more elastic response of the bat.
norbs i didnt think you were doing these masterclasses anymore lol
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I wondered how long norbs would resist lol
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Damn it yep.... I should delete it but you've quoted me now! >:(
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so roughly four hours then. . .
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so roughly four hours then. . .
iv always done about that :D
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so roughly four hours then. . .
Nope it doesn't mean that at all
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Nope. Simply that the longer you knock it in for, the greater the increase in surface stiffness compared to the change in hardness of the centre of the bat. I'm sure there is an optimum time period though, that isn't shown in the graph, at which point the "hardness" of the middle increases in a more exponential fashion?
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so can a bat be over knocked in. .
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Tim are u related to Norbs . . ?
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:D No. Just an engineer at heart who can read a graph ;)
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If im reading this right by creating too much surface stiffness on the blade you in effect capping off the rebound ability of the blade.
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If you had a rock hard bat, the CoR (bounceability) would increase dramatically, (think diamond on diamond) but it would feel like batting with a rock!
I guess the example would be a metal bat, which in theory would "bounce" better than a wooden one because it is harder.
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gonna ask a stupid question here. . . . . how does this relate to laminated bats.
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think about it a soft bat needs more hours then hard bat, a overly hard bat is not going to work. A laminate as it stands from all makers needs knocking in as well
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How does that relate to a baseball bat and what is the major difference?
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but why is the energy return from two pieces joined together supposed to be better..
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Most of Norbs and Talisman comments suggest it generally isn't. I suppose glue could make it "harder" if done right?
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only when it isnt done properly. . . . .SS Turbo's back in the 90's were laminates and supposed to be very good.
Gooch's 333 was with a laminate apparently. . .
i have been told that alot of pro's use them . . . .they must do for a reason
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If pros are using them, they'd better be doing it secretly... They are illegal....
One of my mattes had a 333 Turbo. Was definitely not a laminate that he had!
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i know they are illegal to use. . . . . .but they are used. i have read somewhere that the icc was clamping down on thir use. . . its on this forum somewhere
there are crudes ones easy to pick, and others arent.
gooch's turbo was a laminate . . .
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some laminations are unbelievably crude! I looked at a bat that was showed to me that was laminated and if i wasnt told i owuldnt have noticed, and when i was told it took me a more than a minute to find any signs under close scrutiny!
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http://custombats.co.uk/cbforum/index.php?topic=2157.0
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carry on gents, all good stuff, you'll come to a conclusion eventually
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I'm waiting for you to give us the answer.
Put us out of our misery Andy. .
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I'd have thought that change in velocity of a ball was directly related to the rate of change of momentum, and that mass at impact point was the key to effecting this most efficiently, therefore a larger mass of bat, effected by whatever means you have, over the impat area with the ball would give you a greater rebound velocity. The laminate bat gives you the ability to increase the "contact mass" or effectively increase the sweet spot area by allowing more mass per area, or maybe I'm just starting to go mad!?!? ???
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i think its the latter. . . . .
reminds me of one of those open university programmes that came on at 4 in the morning. . .after a night out.
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Lesson 1. Keep away from discussions about bat performance after a sherbert or two.
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back on topic. . . . .which is the better mallet to use. . the one with a ball on the end or a wooden mallet.
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Everyone seems to recommend the wooden mallets as they don't have a seam and won't mark, and may also do the job slightly quicker as they retain hardness.
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It's something like 25% more power with a players lam bat I think
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is that what you have found with yours??
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That's what mike said but more knowledgable people may know the maths
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I'd have thought that change in velocity of a ball was directly related to the rate of change of momentum, and that mass at impact point was the key to effecting this most efficiently, therefore a larger mass of bat, effected by whatever means you have, over the impat area with the ball would give you a greater rebound velocity. The laminate bat gives you the ability to increase the "contact mass" or effectively increase the sweet spot area by allowing more mass per area, or maybe I'm just starting to go mad!?!? ???
Nope ;)
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Nope ;)
Right, time to set up the test rig....
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Major stab in the dark, anything to do with whats joining the two bits of willow??
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I know it's props been already asked, but do I need to knock in the face?
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Does anyone knock in the edges right at the top of the bat, in the stickered up area?
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Does anyone knock in the edges right at the top of the bat, in the stickered up area?
Usually, yes. If you take short balls to those areas you don't want them doing damage.
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Think so can't think of a reason why not too
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sorry for bringing this up again but my bat has dimples in its face ... have i done too much ? it pings like a beast though
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sounds like it is a soft face that you have almost got ready!
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Better the mallet makes those dimples than the ball?
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yeah it is quite soft, the face is fairly smooth now so im assuming that the deed is done ...
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Hi all,
I have a new bat and have a couple of questions about knocking it in.
Firstly, an Aussie we had over a few years ago talked about running/knocking in a bat using a wooden rolling pin. Has anyone ever heard of something like this before? Would be a lot quieter!!!
Secondly, what are everyone's opinion of using a bat knocking in machine v's hand knocking in using a mallet? Do the machines do a good job?
Thanks
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The rolling pin will be to round off the edges than knock it in i'd guess!
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Hi all,
I have a new bat and have a couple of questions about knocking it in.
Firstly, an Aussie we had over a few years ago talked about running/knocking in a bat using a wooden rolling pin. Has anyone ever heard of something like this before? Would be a lot quieter!!!
Secondly, what are everyone's opinion of using a bat knocking in machine v's hand knocking in using a mallet? Do the machines do a good job?
Thanks
For me, the machines are fine when it comes to knocking in the blade - especially around the sweet spot, but I don't think they do much good at all around the edges. And this is the main reason we do all our knocking in by hand...
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I've used the edge of a porcelain bathtub or sink works well to run in the edges of the bat. Run the bat down the tub at 45 degrees.
I'm reluctant to use machine knocking in, would much rather do it myself, plus I think it's half the fun of getting a new bat, taking the time to prepare it yourself, even if it may drive the wife/girlfriend crazy!
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I've used the edge of a porcelain bathtub or sink works well to run in the edges of the bat. Run the bat down the tub at 45 degrees.
I'm reluctant to use machine knocking in, would much rather do it myself, plus I think it's half the fun of getting a new bat, taking the time to prepare it yourself, even if it may drive the wife/girlfriend crazy!
More like whole neighbourhood
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Hi guys, I have just bought an AS V12 bat and need some guidance on preparing it.
I am going to apply 3 coats of oil and then will knock in for 3-4 hours.
The question is that should I then apply a scuff sheet or not. I actually prefer not because I like naked grains. So essentially just want to confirm that not applying a scuff sheet is ok.
Your expert advice (specially by Mr Cover Drive) will be highly appreciated.
Thanks and regards,
Ozcfa
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Anyone have a view on knocking in a new bat against the bowling machine?
Just a thought as the balls are softer. ???
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Anyone have a view on knocking in a new bat against the bowling machine?
Just a thought as the balls are softer. ???
You're in or near peterborough aren't you mate?
You can hire the bowling machine for a few sessions, this will really help out with the knocking in of the middle, but the edges do need to be done by hand.
If you have a bat you are looking to knock in, you can bring it into us, £15 for a full knocking in service by hand, including an anti scuff sheet.
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The machines at Fordham and Chase are fine and do a very good job...
I like to do it by hand though it feels more personal and it nice to hear a bat getting better and better
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You're in or near peterborough aren't you mate?
You can hire the bowling machine for a few sessions, this will really help out with the knocking in of the middle, but the edges do need to be done by hand.
If you have a bat you are looking to knock in, you can bring it into us, £15 for a full knocking in service by hand, including an anti scuff sheet.
Im actually in herts. But thats sounds like a great pricefor knocking in and anti scuffle.
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Scuff even :-[
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The machines at Fordham and Chase are fine and do a very good job...
I like to do it by hand though it feels more personal and it nice to hear a bat getting better and better
Agree with that Dave although I've never had one done by the machine.
There is nothing like knocking a bat in yourself and knowing when it's ready to play, then the satisfaction of when you've knocked it in and it feeling lovely in the nets
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I think I'll spend a few hours with the mallet followed by bowling machine and then get out the old leather balls 8)
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Ive got a mates bat being machine knocked in at fordhams now,its 42.00.personally i like to do them myself
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Most bats bats now are well pressed. In the last 2 -3 years, I have not knocked the face of any of my personal bats. I just work on the edges and toe. At max I give 15-20 good whacks in and around the middle and put the scuff sheet.
As we use old match balls in the nets, I just go an net with the bats and let the bowlers do the job for me.
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We use old match balls in the nets (not the 5 for balls of course) - with 95% being the good quality old Kookaburra's. Every now and again they buy the hard 'Jaffer' balls, which are hard and seem to add a bit of extra bounce and pace to every bowler - so being the good blokes that they are, they bowl a few bouncers with them.
The good quality net balls help as it is a way to play your bat in for a while before you unleash it on a new/newish (depending on where you bat) ball.
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Ive got a mates bat being machine knocked in at fordhams now,its 42.00.personally i like to do them myself
They're charging £42 for machine knocking in??! I thought it was around the £30 mark!
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Isnt Vitas doing it by hand for 15 quid?
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yes 42 if you dont buy the bat there(i got 1 extra grip for that thou) so it's expensive
personally i like to knock bats in myself by the old fashioned method same as you use
some of the manufacturers are helping us by 'pre-prepared' or 'partly knocked in'
not sure exactly what this means but grade 1 bats i would spend a good amount of time knocking them in
there is never any guarantee thou,bats crack and split all the time
as had been mentioned before on this forum,the (non) quality of balls in our cricket def damages top grade bats-that's for sure
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They're charging £42 for machine knocking in??! I thought it was around the £30 mark!
Surely having a machine do it would be cheaper than by hand due to labour costs?
If not, what's the point in having a machine ;-)
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who would pay £42 to have it knocked in? thats far too much to say you would then need to knock in the edges and round them off yourself. I hate the time involved knocking a bat in, but do enjoy the process of seeing and hearing the bat improve. the last 2 bats I bought were top end Puma and Slaz, both with a guidance saying another hour or so is required, as the bats are PKI already. I've done this with both, and used both in nets and have to say they respond very well and have both improved off the mallet as the process has gone on
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yes indeed, some of the guys at my club give me bats to repair(all i do is send them off!)
i do know the guys at m and h who do a great job there and warsop and salix
the bat at fordhams is a player b52, my mate paid about 200 quid and asked me to get it done at Fordhams for him
i live near there so it's no problem
but quite agree don't think it's worth the money myself,just checked my receipt and it's actually £43.99(going up) with 1 extra white grip fitted(maybe that put it orbit).
some players I know like to have everything done to the max to the bat,other guys just buy and use them without knocking in.
one of the good things about this forum is lots of information is shared around so we all get to know a bit more about cricket,and bats in particular.A lot of the guys in my team don't really know much about the bats they are buying surprisingly
We are playing a good standard(div 1).
as an example our skipper just bought a GM Luna with massive concaving for close to £300 which is a huge price,not aware there are small batmakers who can provide grade 1's for far less and customise them for him.
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somone recently told me to use a rolling pin and just press down on the face as a substitute for knocking in with a mallet. What does everyone think of this?
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You could use it for rolling the edges. As for the face, not sure about that
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My knocking in procedure is to pay Paul @ IJC a small fee to do it in a rather splendid fashion.
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somone recently told me to use a rolling pin and just press down on the face as a substitute for knocking in with a mallet. What does everyone think of this?
If it works it would only be in rounded face bats and you run the risk on damaging the spine. Have you tired it? does it work? I have never heard of this before, could they just be talking about rounding the edges?
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somone recently told me to use a rolling pin and just press down on the face as a substitute for knocking in with a mallet. What does everyone think of this?
Even if you did have arms the size of tree trunks, I'd imagine the effect would be similar to pressing. I believe the theory to knocking-in is to utilize a sharp impact force to harden only the surface of the bat.
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If it works it would only be in rounded face bats and you run the risk on damaging the spine. Have you tired it? does it work? I have never heard of this before, could they just be talking about rounding the edges?
Nope never tried it, but a guy i work with swears by it and he definitely means the whole face. He advises everyone to do it instead of knocking in. I have to say it really annoys me as i can't see how it would replicate the proper knocking in process. I personally think its aload of rubbish!! :)