Custom Bats Cricket Forum

Equipment => Bats => Topic started by: Tom on September 30, 2008, 02:57:29 PM

Title: Illegal Bats
Post by: Tom on September 30, 2008, 02:57:29 PM
From tomorrow the new law on bats comes in, does anyone know when illegal bats such as the Newbery C6's, CJI Fatso LE and GN Fusion cannot be sold?

If you're unsure yourself on what can/cannot be used http://www.lords.org/data/files/changes-to-the-law-concerning-cricket-bats-players-10190.pdf
Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: Dobbs on September 30, 2008, 03:04:54 PM
What is up with the CJI Fatso LE?
Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: Tom on September 30, 2008, 03:06:21 PM
The ones I have seen are willow laminated with some other wood (it looks like Kashmir or EWNI) on the back. I was under the impression that this new law meant laminated bats were illegal.

Check the attached pic

[attachment deleted by admin]
Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: Dobbs on September 30, 2008, 03:07:21 PM
Does that also apply to GN Nitro Xtremes then like my old one?
Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: Tom on September 30, 2008, 03:10:35 PM
I would believe so yes. Although I'm struggling to find the law which it contravenes, there's loads of new regulations!

Ignore my initial question it's April 2009 they can be sold up to, so be expecting some bargains on GN Fusions etc come that time.
Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: SAF Bats on September 30, 2008, 05:04:34 PM
Tom

Does this answer it the question about sales...

How do these changes affect me as a player?
The onus has been placed on manufacturers to ensure that their bats conform to the new Law and are correctly graded. From 1st
October 2008, bats in shops should be graded either A, B, or C although there may be a brief window when some bats are not so
marked. Manufacturers and retailers have been asked to address this urgently.

What about bats already in shops?
There will obviously be a lot of legal but ungraded bats in the shops. There is no need to get these graded – provided the bats are
legal, retailers can sell current stock even though bats do not display gradings. However, retailers may be keen for the bats to carry a
grade, so they appear more up to date. M.C.C. suggests that retailers could, if they so wished, consult manufacturers about grading
particular bats and, if the manufacturers give approval and consent, apply stickers or brands themselves. Theses should be supplied
by the manufacturers, who are advised to keep a record of what advice on grading has been given to retailers. It is important that all
bats are correctly graded and manufacturers and retailers should work together on this.

Also on the laminated bats front ----

4. The blade
(a) The blade comprises the whole of the bat apart from the handle as defined above. The
blade has a face, a back, a toe, sides and shoulders. See Appendix E.
(b) The blade shall consist solely of wood.
(c) No material may be placed on or inserted into either the blade or the lower portion of
the handle other than as permitted in 3(d) above and 5 and 6 below, together with the
minimal adhesives or adhesive tape used solely for fixing these items, or for fixing
the handle to the blade.

Toe insert – Grade A bats may not have a toe insert placed in them. Grade B and C bats may have a toe insert fitted inside the blade,
using minimal adhesive. This insert must not extend from the toe more than 2.5 in/6.35 cm up the blade at any point.

Side insert – Grade A bats may not have side inserts placed in them. Grade B and C bats may have side inserts fitted. Neither side
insert may extend from the edge more than 1 in/2.54 cm across the blade at any point.
Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: Dobbs on September 30, 2008, 05:09:20 PM
What does the A, B and C grades mean? The quality of the willow? Or just what inserts they have?
Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: Tom on September 30, 2008, 05:10:57 PM
Thanks Andy.

I understood from that that Laminated bats are banned, although it's not 100% clear. I take it the 'no material' bit refers to the lamination?

As for the sales I checked the retailers guide to the bats and it's up to April 2009.
Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: Tom on September 30, 2008, 05:12:03 PM
The A, B and C grades are the levels of cricket it can be used in. Something along the lines of A is Test and 1st class, B is top Premier league cricket and C is just regular village cricket.
Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: Howzat on September 30, 2008, 05:15:27 PM
So to me that looks like A grade players cant use bats with lamitoe in them?
Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: Dobbs on September 30, 2008, 05:16:24 PM
Is this going by manufacturer grading? i.e. Original LE = A, 909 = B etc.?

And any ideas if manufacturer grading is going to change because of this? Or will most still grade on aesthetics?
Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: Tom on September 30, 2008, 05:20:28 PM
No a bats grade will be nothing to do with performance or willow level, it will be to do with if it's got lamitoe, a part carbon handle and covered blade etc.
Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: Dobbs on September 30, 2008, 05:27:10 PM
Ohh I get it now, think I just got the wrong end of the stick, that's all lol.
Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: Watsontotty on September 30, 2008, 06:34:42 PM
Few people are missing the correct facts on this i will put some info on here but i will forward tom the complete rules etc as my computer wont let me attach the 3 page document.


Bat Characteristic Grade A
10% or less materials other than cane, wood and twine in the handle
Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: irwinster on September 30, 2008, 06:51:04 PM
i am totally and utterly confused and i have a gn fusion ctx to sell aswell god dammit
Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: Talisman on September 30, 2008, 07:03:26 PM
Any illegal bat can still be made until April 2009 and sold in shops until October 2009 so plenty of time yet to buy and once sold to the public you can use it forever.
Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: Watsontotty on September 30, 2008, 07:24:54 PM
The term illegal bat is not the best of terms to use as from the 1st October 2008 only grade a bats can be used in the professional game but all bats can still be made and sold to the general public ? all bats made must comply with the new laws and be graded a, b , c each grade has different things which are allowed.

All professionals will only use grade A bats and are only allowed 10% or less usage of materials other than those in my previous email, I've sent Tom the full laws and hopefully he will add the document to the forum.
Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: SAF Bats on September 30, 2008, 08:55:26 PM
Grading is done by the manufacturer from memory.... Lamitoes and Raylon insert from the off are out...

Laminated bats I assume will be out as they will be glued and therefore be related to having been fixed.. epoxy resins could change the way the bat play as it may for example: stiffen the bat.

M&H S6 with its inserts should be ok as they are not glue but push fitted

Read a few but not all replies so sorry if I'm repeating here....


Grade A bats may be used in all cricket.
Grade B bats may be used in all cricket except professional cricket.
Grade C bats may not be used in professional cricket or top amateur cricket – eg Premier Leagues, Grade Cricket.


All bats are ok as they stand at moment but can't be used in Grade A professional cricket....

Bats that will be illegal and have been bought or will be bought can be used until the end of there life span

MCC are recommending that all bats are graded A, B, C [with a sticker applied by the manufacturer] as close as possible to the Oct 1st though - therefore some early sales and bargains like Talimans says....

I believe Laver and Woods is one of the only carbo handle ok in the new rules

Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: Tom on September 30, 2008, 09:39:10 PM
Any illegal bat can still be made until April 2009 and sold in shops until October 2009 so plenty of time yet to buy and once sold to the public you can use it forever.
Perfect, exactly what I was looking for. Thanks. I take it you could also sell these bats under a different guise, for example "The new Newbery Mjlonir C6+ fielding bat (Full size)"?

Got the rules also already, had them since May time but haven't referred to them in a while. They're on the MCC site too, but I'll add them on here if I get chance. Just all slightly confusing as what can/cannot be done.
Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: hell4leather cricket on September 30, 2008, 10:11:36 PM
 I SUPPOSE THE IMPALA 'RATTLER' IS ON THE LIST  THEN?
Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: SAF Bats on September 30, 2008, 10:18:02 PM
sorry should add as it maybe misleading about toe inserts

Toe insert – Grade A bats may not have a toe insert placed in them. Grade B and C bats may have a toe insert fitted inside the blade,using minimal adhesive. This insert must not extend from the toe more than 2.5 in/6.35 cm up the blade at any point.

Side insert – Grade A bats may not have side inserts placed in them. Grade B and C bats may have side inserts fitted. Neither side insert may extend from the edge more than 1 in/2.54 cm across the blade at any point.
Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: art on September 30, 2008, 11:00:58 PM
Let's look carefully at what is being said.

1. The bat blade must be made of wood.
2. There are stricter limits on coverings and logo thickness and areas they cover.

TYhe main aim of this new Law rewrite is to exclude handlesa made of materials other than wood or cane within known limits. Now grade A and B bats can have no more than 10% non cane or wood in the handle and grade C bats no more than 20%.

What they are technically doing is outlawing those non wood handles that have become prevalent.
Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: art on September 30, 2008, 11:19:24 PM
I'll just add a little since a couple of posts were made before I posted mine that I did not see. The so called 'inserts' (toe and side) are no big deal to the average cricketer but they are to the professional. What is trying to be done here is to ensure that the bat and that includes the handle is technically made of wood or for the handle at least 90% wood, cane and twine.

The use of toe and side inserts has been a problem for some time as it frankly appears that certain professional players were obtaining an advantage in bat design by exploiting a 'loophole' in the Law. There was in fact no loophole as such it was just that a few souls pushed the boundaries too far and have been stopped. Toe and side inserts are okay for grades B and C.

The use of non wood inserts in the toe and side were a technical breach of the Law in any case but as usual a few folks knew better than the Laws. Cricket is a very simple game that is complicated by money and lawyers.
Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: SAF Bats on September 30, 2008, 11:56:12 PM
Whilst I understand the potential benefits of handles toe and side inserts and I can see why they looked at changing the laws. Some people are saying that why cane in the handle it is not sustainable at the moment but the law states:

Quote
The handle is to be made principally of cane and or wood, glued where necessary and bound with twine along the upper portion

There are still ways that you can get the same benefits that they supplied within the new laws.  In some instances it may mean less of a shelf life for the bat but I doubt that Grade A cricketers will mind.

Like you say the talk about coverings and logo thickness and there potential to enhance performance.  At the moment I don't think there is a huge benefit but thickness size restriction on this are the correct way to go as yes certain materials will add benefits.  But there will always be something out there that could be used within the laws for coverings

Or is that not in the Spirit of Cricket, whilst on that subject. If you believe, like alot of people do, that cricket has become more of showman like spectacle and that has pushed itself towards a bias towards the batter rather then the bowler.  Why not even it up that way as well.....
Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: SAF Bats on October 13, 2008, 10:35:25 AM
Anybody spotted a MCC Sticker or the letter A on of the bats being used in the recents tests / matches? [Some that do not have the stickers are writing an A on the top of the handle!]
Title: Re: Illegal Bats
Post by: kenbriooo on October 16, 2008, 02:14:47 PM
The ones I have seen are willow laminated with some other wood (it looks like Kashmir or EWNI) on the back. I was under the impression that this new law meant laminated bats were illegal.

Check the attached pic

Love the size of the Sumo, how much does it weigh and cost?