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[procricket]

I really don't get this obsession with stats. Unless you're Bradman 99.94 or Murali 800, it's just a nominal thing.

Woakes' stats might look better than Stokes' but Stoke can win matches almost single handedly. Can Woakes say the same? Can Woakes smash 250 in record time? Can Woakes take a match changing 6fer? I know Stokes can...

Woakes can take the wickets and score runs.

No your right about stats as I have said only tell so much but for some Stokes is the 2nd messiah which he isn't. Woakes gets belted on this forum but is a genuine all round cricketer of great ability and yes he can take a 6 for. He cant score 250 in record time though.

I do not tend to look at stats but when I only watch the players live once maybe twice a year they are all we have. Stokes is a maverick

[ppccopener]

Actually there are plenty of us on the forum who rate Woakes very highly, yes also some who don't even think he should be in the team.

stokes is different, a one off and if he stays fit could be, as good as Fred, was flintoff  as good as Botham? No...could Stokes be? He has already shown incredible match winning ability and the self confidence Beefy had to go out there and do it.

we are all a bit guilty of looking back thru rose tinted glasses to say players are not as good they we're back in the day, but just look at Joe Root.....he's only really comparable with KP who like or loathe him(loathe) was probably the best batsman we have had in.......well absolutely ages, he really was a different class at his peak.

But back to Woakes.....if anyone can name an England player improved that much from his first time in the team to now?

Bairstow maybe? That's about it...

Woakes then and now is like watching two different cricketers in the same body !