Starting your innings against spinners
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Red Ink Cricket

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #15 on: May 05, 2011, 01:58:42 PM »

thats one shot ive never really seen the benefit of playing. dont get me wrong Eoin morgan plays it like a legend but id rather late cut or drive it.
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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #16 on: May 05, 2011, 04:23:27 PM »

Get a solid base, you dont want to be hitting the ball on the move
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Wills

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #17 on: May 05, 2011, 06:13:20 PM »

When I come out to a spinner or two, I tend to take a ball or two to just see what turn, if any, they get.
I find having a look for the new batsman quite overlooked nowadays - I've seen a lot of people get out to our leggy on their first or second ball trying an elaborate heave over mid-wicket.
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Mr Cricket

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #18 on: May 05, 2011, 06:45:29 PM »

ive found the reverse sweep easier to learn than the conventional. also, with most spinners opting for a leg side sweeper or something similar its a real good way of scoring behind square on the off side where they arent expecting (with a lack of pace on the ball) so plenty of runscoring opportunities

learn the (No Swearing Please) off it in nets before you play it in a game though, or you'll most likely make a fool of yourself!
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niceonechoppy

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #19 on: May 05, 2011, 06:54:00 PM »

I would start off extremely positively against spin as they don't like to be got after. It only takes 1 or 2 hits to get men moving into the deep, from there nudge and nurdle the ones/twos whilst keeping an eye on capitalising on boundaries.
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johan95

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #20 on: May 05, 2011, 06:59:01 PM »

I try to move my feet positively but always have a couple of sighter balls. If it's there to hit I've started to throw the kitchen sink at it and it often works!
I tend to try not to get too bogged down and try to rotate the strike, as choppy said hitting one boundary moves fielders back. I had an agricultural sweep-like shot down the ground on Sunday and this moved the man back meaning I could play riskless shots for 1s...
Obviously there are different schools of thought but so long as you are positive and try not to get bogged down you should do well in my opinion; there are always a couple of bad balls in every spell, you just always have to put them away! :)
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Buzz

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #21 on: August 29, 2012, 07:27:45 AM »

nothing like dragging up a vintage topic sometimes...

In this case Aakash Chopra has written a super piece on CricInfo today, as many of you know I am a big fan of Aakash's writing and this is no exception. However the one thing he doesn't mention here is that you need to have absolute confidence in your shot selection if you are looking to go over the top early, coming down the wicket - so you need to practice. Also practice coming down the wicket and hitting the ball along the ground, which is a really good skill to have as a batsman and can lower the risk of the shot you play, but still put off the bowler.

http://www.espncricinfo.com/magazine/content/story/579722.html
Be bold, decisive: How NZ should play Indian spin
A quick course on playing spin in the subcontinent
Aakash Chopra
After losing 2-0 to a weedy West Indian side, New Zealand slumped to an innings defeat in their first Test in India. It would take a brave man to put his money on them in the second Test in Bangalore. The loss in Hyderabad only underlined the gap between New Zealand and the major Test-playing nations.

Over the years though, New Zealand had gained the reputation of a team that always punched above their weight. Their courage and the never-say-die attitude made up for the lack of the skills needed to excel in different conditions.

On their tour of India in 2003-04, which was my debut series, New Zealand drew both Test matches, and even had India follow on in Mohali. They were routed in the ODIs when they visited in 2010-11, but secured two draws in the three-Test series. They have rarely won in India but haven't surrendered before as feebly as they did in Hyderabad, and that must hurt their fans. The pitch deteriorated a lot faster than many expected it to and had enough in it for the spinners from the second day, yet it was far from being unplayable.

Susceptibility to pace and bounce tends to get far more attention than weakness against spin. That's perhaps because, unlike pace bowlers, spinners don't pose a physical threat but the truth is that being bamboozled by spin can cause long-lasting mental scars.

With the second Test only two days away, New Zealand must be working overtime to find ways to counter India's potent spin threat. Here are a few things their batsmen should keep in mind while taking on R Ashwin and Pragyan Ojha in Bangalore.

Decisive footwork
Read the ball from the hand, not from the pitch, because it will give you a little more time to react. Use both feet to either get to the pitch of the ball with a long forward stride or to go deep inside the crease to shorten the length. Spinners are at their most dangerous when the batsman refuses to get to the pitch of the ball to smother the lateral movement off the surface. That's what New Zealand did in Hyderabad. Most of their batsmen were rooted to the crease and offered unconvincing forward prods to everything that was pitched up, in hope that the ball would find the middle of the bat. Their shots lacked conviction and resulted in many bat-pad catches. Some New Zealand batsmen started shuffling to counter the spin, but little did they realise that sideways movement within the crease can only be effective against fast bowlers because it helps you play in the second line. Only a decisive forward-and-backward movement can save the day against spinners. In England, Hashim Amla did that beautifully against Graeme Swann.

Pushing the fielders back
On turning pitches, you must be aggressive, for no matter how good your defensive technique, the odd ball will turn and jump unexpectedly to abruptly end your stay. If you only concentrate on defending, as New Zealand did in the second innings, the spinners won't feel threatened and will continue to flight the ball. To extract optimum spin and bounce off the surface, spinners must give the ball some air. This becomes easier if the batsman has gone into a shell. All quality players of spin take the aerial route really early in the innings, because it forces the bowler to not only push the fielders back but to also cut down on flighting the ball. Once the fielders are pushed back, batsmen find it easier to rotate the strike, and the moment a spinner starts bowling flatter, he plays into your hands. MS Dhoni did it efficiently against Jeetan Patel the moment he walked in to bat in Hyderabad.

To many batsmen the sweep shot is the only attacking response to the turning ball. But they must understand that they'll get the right balls to sweep only after forcing the bowler to bowl flatter and shorten his length by stepping down the track regularly. Wait for the bowler to release the ball so that he can't alter his length or line, and advance against balls that go higher than the eye level.

Playing late, using soft hands and getting the weight transfer right
Since spinners bowl a lot slower than the quicks, it's tempting to reach for the ball. But if you're defending, you must resist the temptation and allow the ball to come to you, as you would when facing a fast bowler. Once you have allowed the ball to come to you, play it as delicately as possible with soft hands. Let the top hand remain firm while barely holding the bat with the bottom hand.

It's imperative to transfer the body weight at the right time. Whether you are defending or playing an aggressive shot against a spinner on a turning pitch, if you transfer your weight a fraction earlier, you will commit yourself to the stroke and struggle to play the ball along the ground. And if you are a fraction late, you won't get any power in your shots.


Playing the turning ball on a crumbling pitch requires just as much expertise as playing the moving ball on a fast and bouncy pitch. Even after taking a crash course in playing the turning ball, New Zealand may not be able to avert defeat, but it's worth using every ounce of their energy to at least delay the inevitable.
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charlie15

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #22 on: August 29, 2012, 08:33:41 AM »

As Buzz can testify I take the view that spinners are to be smacked out of the ground, and often play the head in the air slog with disastrous consequences!
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biggsy143

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #23 on: August 29, 2012, 09:31:46 AM »

Opening up with Spinners using the old bowl should be Banned, always gets me out  :o
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Buzz

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2012, 08:21:57 AM »

nice little piece from Graham Thorpe on playing spin in Asia

Images
Graham Thorpe
guardian.co.uk, Tue 13 Nov
2012 08.00 GMT
Blogpost
0

Graham Thorpe, who is England's lead batting coach based at the National Cricket Performance Centre in Loughborough, played a number of famous innings on the subcontinent. He reached a century including a single boundary against Pakistan in
Lahore in November 2000, then steered England to a series-clinching victory in the
third Test in the Karachi gloom. The team then moved on to Sri Lanka, where Thorpe
tamed Muttiah Muralitharan with an unbeaten 113 in the first innings then hit 32 not
out in the second as England made hard work of a tense run chase to secure a 2-1 series
win by four wickets. That was their last series win in Asia, excluding Bangladesh.

1 Be prepared

To have a method is very important in Asia. It's always about being absolutely clear.
When pressure's applied with men around the bat it's about being able to trust your
technique and knowing exactly what your higher risk strategy might be at certain times.
When I got a century against Pakistan in Lahore [which included a single boundary], I
didn't play off the front foot unless it was a drive. Goochy [Graham Gooch, England's
batting coach] would probably be saying a similar thing – you only play off the front foot if
you're driving, you're not prodding.
We would discuss a first innings pitch compared with a second innings pitch, and they're very different. It might be that in the first innings sometimes, you don't have to sweep, the sweep doesn't have to come into it if your footwork is good and you pick length well; you can get away with rotating the strike and playing well off the back foot.
Second innings it can be much harder if it's turning more sharply. Then you need other
options. I often try to talk about creating at least two options when you're facing spin. I
think you have to be able to delay that decision-making right to the last point. You
might see a ball turn in England and the minute you see it pitch, you play your shot. It might not be so in India. It might stay low, bounce more, so being strong on both legs is very important. Stability on the back leg is important, speed in terms of pushing back on the front leg is important as well. If you're quick in those areas you can have a chance to rotate the strike, which takes pressure off.
The preparation time is better than it was last time so they've had a good amount of time to start to be clear in their heads. Each one is different as well. For each player, know where your slightly higher risk shots might be. If you've got three or four men around the bat and you want to disturb it a little bit, where's that going to be? And where are your tick-over shots as well – that's important. If you don't tick over the bowlers love it, they can keep bowling at one bloke. So it's important that you are able to keep rotating.

2 Stay in the moment
I know it's obvious but it's important to get a good start, for confidence. But even then,  you can have a good first morning and things can happen quick. That's why you can never look too far ahead. It's a general rule in Test cricket but over there you can be going along quite nicely and all of a sudden – boom – the noise could go up, they take a couple of wickets, you know what it's like, a few men come around the bat … so it's important for players to be able to handle that pressure and to do that you've got to be clear on your game plan.
You should always be telling yourself, even if you're going well, just add two wickets on
to this and all of a sudden the game's changed. So even when you're playing well you're
trying to remind yourself still to play with freedom but, you know, still control.

3 Take your chances
Once you get into batting in Asia, if you get into a pattern, it follows a similar sort of path. You have to at times get used to men round the bat, know what your low- and high-risk shots are going to be in that environment. It is more weighted to spin bowling but clearly as well you tell the guys not to ignore the new ball and the ball mid-afternoon which may start to reverse. It's a very challenging environment. Last winter, you could say that England fell down in two Test matches which they could have won. They didn't chase well in Abu Dhabi and they had an opportunity in one of the games in Dubai. That's the fine line. Playing in Asia, you've got to seize your opportunity or the series could
be gone. You sense that if England can stay in Test matches for a period of time
then you'll have a chance. But if you don't take your chance in Asia it's not often that it's
going to come back your way. The type of innings Kevin Pietersen played in Colombo,
that's a match-changing innings. Then if you operate well as a bowling unit, which
in general England have, you can then apply pressure to the opposition. But you sense that runs are the key for England in this particular series. If you can get runs on the board you get the opportunity to stay in the game and put India under pressure.
Looking at this purely from a batting point of view, just as when I used to tour Asia, if we
don't get runs on the board, we're not going to be able to give our bowlers anything. But
if we get something on the board we've got a bowling attack which could cause some
trouble. It's a challenge, a very exciting challenge for a player. Your brain should be
pretty frazzled when you come off, because of the concentration.

If England win in India it will be a great achievement – just look at the stats. But am I an optimist?
Yes.
« Last Edit: November 13, 2012, 11:04:29 AM by Buzz »
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Simmy

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #25 on: November 13, 2012, 08:36:04 AM »

ill read that when i get 10 mins! if i go into bat and the spinners are on straigh away i strugle! i need a bit of pace and bat on ball to get going
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Manormanic

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #26 on: November 13, 2012, 10:00:16 AM »

I reckon it depensd - if we're talking clubbies than to be honest you can jts play them like medium pacers for the first threeor four overs, look to get in line and play the ball into gaps in the field, of which tere are bound to be a couple.  Its when you have a slightly better standard of spinners that it gets more difficult - the ones who have a bit of variety allied to regular grip and bounce. Then its about picking the length early and looking to rotate the strike with intellgent running between the wickets.
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johnnyw

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #27 on: November 13, 2012, 10:06:25 AM »

Look at gayles first over today against Bangladesh. That is how you start against spinners :D
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Dan W

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #28 on: November 13, 2012, 10:11:42 AM »

Nothing worse for the yips than strolling out to a spin bowler having freshly taken a wicket.

Even worse when you KNOW it's not even really turning, the prior batsman just wafted to early and got plumb LBW, and the bowler is an teenager usually playing his first game for the senior team  >:(
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trypewriter

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Re: Starting your innings against spinners
« Reply #29 on: November 13, 2012, 10:51:11 AM »

I think manormanic got it right - it depends how good they are. One thing to remember is that bad balls can get more wickets than good ones, so don't be intimidated by them just having taken one. Mind you, another reason to feel uncomfortable is that the keeper and slips will be standing very close and will probably be chirping away ten to the dozen.
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