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[basket case]

Too hard to prove as the bowler will make out its a topspinner etc

Would be stupid if you ask me. It's like saying to a fast bowler only one outswinger per over.

[PedalsMcgrew]

The thing that winds me up about this whole Ajmal doosra thing is the fact that he is perfectly capable of bowling with a straight arm. The only reason he bends his arm is to bowl his wrong 'un and as we saw today the more bent his arm gets the more the ball turns. I can't comment on whether he has, at any point, exceeded the 15 degree limit but the fact remains that he is doing it in order to gain an advantage.

[The_Bird]

Maybe they will try to get a one doosra per over something similar to the bouncer rule...

I presume your joking if not do you then limit out/in swingers? Get on with it and work hard in the nets to read spinners, Bell's flaws against good spinners has again resurfaced after his mauling by warne in the '05 ashes, Eng lost wickets at bad times but still have recognised batsmen to come in. Test Match cricket at its best.

[basket case]

The thing that winds me up about this whole Ajmal doosra thing is the fact that he is perfectly capable of bowling with a straight arm. The only reason he bends his arm is to bowl his wrong 'un and as we saw today the more bent his arm gets the more the ball turns. I can't comment on whether he has, at any point, exceeded the 15 degree limit but the fact remains that he is doing it in order to gain an advantage.

Saeed Ajmal bowls with his elbow bent more than 15 degrees due to an elbow injury suffered as a child. His elbow can't straighten. It has a permanent 10-13 degrees bend in his arm.

[PedalsMcgrew]

If that's the case how come his stock delivery is bowled with a straight arm?

[alba caerulea]

Bowling with a bent arm isn't illegal anyway, you can run in and bowl with your elbow fixed at 45% if you like! I wouldn't recomend it but its not against the rules!

The staightening of the arm is the illegal part.

Saeed Ajmal bowls with his elbow bent more than 15 degrees due to an elbow injury suffered as a child. His elbow can't straighten. It has a permanent 10-13 degrees bend in his arm.

What you mean here is that his elbow might not be able to rest on a plane with the rest of his arm, i.e; there will always be a slight bend in his elbow. If his elbow couldn't straighten atall he wouldn't be able to bowl full stop!

[alba caerulea]

Or pick his nose for that matter!

[basket case]

If that's the case how come his stock delivery is bowled with a straight arm?

Well unless he has rebroken his elbow in the last 2 months, it's not possible. It was discussed prior to the Pakistan vs India world cup match. His long sleeved shirt makes the arm look straight/straighter than it actually is.

[basket case]

Bowling with a bent arm isn't illegal anyway, you can run in and bowl with your elbow fixed at 45% if you like! I wouldn't recomend it but its not against the rules!

The staightening of the arm is the illegal part.

What you mean here is that his elbow might not be able to rest on a plane with the rest of his arm, i.e; there will always be a slight bend in his elbow. If his elbow couldn't straighten atall he wouldn't be able to bowl full stop!

He has a natural defect in his body. Nothing the ICC can do about barring breaking his arm...

[alba caerulea]

Point accepted, I wasn't disagreeing with you I was just clearing up your wording

[qalib13]

To be honest its getting quite tedious all this brouhaha about Ajmals action. where was the downright indignation about Ajmals doosra when he was taking wickets against the rest of the cricketing world? come on, this is nothing new, he has been bowling the doosra in tests, twenty20 and ODI games for a couple of years. where was this discussion then? Or is it just because he made some English batsmen look like novices, that this is been such an issue. would we have had this debate if he took 1-97 or if he still took 10-97 but
England went on to win the match? I think the headlines would have been somewhat different.

Lets not forget, he has been tested and cleared by the ICC. so until that changes everyone should give him his dues for been a fine bowler, bowling within the laws of the game. finally what i understand of the rule relating to chucking/throwing and 15 degrees pertains to 'the straightening of the bowlers arm.' all the pictures showing a bent arm are irrelevant as if his arm is bent and stays bent, its a legal delivery. however if its bent and then straightens more than the 15 degrees if a throw and a illegal delivery. remember when you throw a ball, you arm does not stay bent as you release it, your momentum starts to straighten your arm. its quite difficult to throw while keeping your arm bent, and if you do manage it the ball will not get that far.

Lets just be happy at what has been a intriguing and absorbing series so far, very close with both sides in the mix. Personally I find one sided test games to be a bit boring.

P.S. excuse the essay length of my post, just throwing in my two cents.

[Buzz]

just to confirm - he was tested by the ICC and they said "he can bowl the doosra with less than 15 degrees bend"
that is very different to being cleared.

[Opener]

Buzz did he not play county last year? There might be a genuine issue but with all this crying wolf be it with bouncers in the 80s, reverse swing in the 90s and now the doosra it is easy to be skeptic.

[Buzz]

Buzz did he not play county last year? There might be a genuine issue but with all this crying wolf be it with bouncers in the 80s, reverse swing in the 90s and now the doosra it is easy to be skeptic.

Yes he did. However the standard in the championship and the pressure to perform is not the same as a test match.
Today it is apparent that he bowled for most of the day with no issue at all, but was nullified by Trott and Cook - then as the frustration set in he started to increase the "effort" in his action to get more purchase - and suddenly there was a clatter of wickets.

Now personally my view is that the batsmen should have been good enough to deal with it - these guys have scored runs against Murali so they shouldn't be whinging - but there are laws in cricket and the idea of the 15 degree bend is that is the limit when a slightly unusual action becomes a throw to the naked eye.
So two aspects - should he be allowed to cheat? (not saying he is) well no.
From a batting point of view - if you can see the chuck you know it will be the doosra - so I really don't understand why he is that difficult to pick.

Picking spinners is either done from the hand, by seeing the seam or off the pitch - the light is good enough for, at the very least, these guys to be able to pick the spin in the air if they can't read it from the hand.

[Opener]

Yes he did. However the standard in the championship and the pressure to perform is not the same as a test match.
Today it is apparent that he bowled for most of the day with no issue at all, but was nullified by Trott and Cook - then as the frustration set in he started to increase the "effort" in his action to get more purchase - and suddenly there was a clatter of wickets.

Just a question. Did you see the game or are you basing it on that Tweet and media reports.