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[Buzz]

watching highlights on the news and relatively reliable media reports. Twitter and the mail don't count.
I admit skynews is biased.

[johnnyw]

http://www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/current/story/551041.html

[qalib13]

I agree with you buzz, on the fact that being allowed to bowl the doosra less than 15 degrees and being cleared are two different things however until such a time when a umpire or the ICC think he is exceeding the limit, we should not pass judgement. After all we can't say for certain that he is exceeding the 15, and to be honest if there was genuine and unreserved doubt over this then surely a batsman or a umpire would raise the issue. We all remember Darryl Hair and the Murali incident, he was repeatedly no balled for it.

As for Ajmal putting in more effort towards the end of the day, i watched all of the days play live and i didnt notice anything inherently different in his demeanour. nor did i think he was putting in extra amount effort. ajmal seems to be a very laid back character who rarely gets flustered. i think the wickets were due to the pitch allowing more purchase on the ball the day went on. At the start of England's innings the heavy roller was employed and i think it flattened out the dents in the pitch. So as the day went on it become much more friendly for the spinners. hence the wickets falling towards the end.

[PedalsMcgrew]

I agree with you buzz, on the fact that being allowed to bowl the doosra less than 15 degrees and being cleared are two different things however until such a time when a umpire or the ICC think he is exceeding the limit, we should not pass judgement. After all we can't say for certain that he is exceeding the 15, and to be honest if there was genuine and unreserved doubt over this then surely a batsman or a umpire would raise the issue. We all remember Darryl Hair and the Murali incident, he was repeatedly no balled for it.

As for Ajmal putting in more effort towards the end of the day, i watched all of the days play live and i didnt notice anything inherently different in his demeanour. nor did i think he was putting in extra amount effort. ajmal seems to be a very laid back character who rarely gets flustered. i think the wickets were due to the pitch allowing more purchase on the ball the day went on. At the start of England's innings the heavy roller was employed and i think it flattened out the dents in the pitch. So as the day went on it become much more friendly for the spinners. hence the wickets falling towards the end.

By the sounds of it, a lot of players and officials have been raising doubts about Ajmal's action, behind closed doors at least. You're right though, none of us know for sure whether he is breaking the 15 degree rule but what we do know, without any doubt, is that he gains an advantage from straightening his arm from a bent position as the last few overs from todays play showed. He bowled practically the whole day with a straight arm and then in the last few overs his arm starts visibly straightening from bent and the ball starts turning, more than it has all day and with a ball that's 80 odd overs old...seems to me someone had a word with him about it, he tried to rein it in all day but as the adrenaline rose, he slipped back to his old ways.

I like Ajmal, he seems like a good guy but chucking is chucking whether its more or less than 15 degrees.

[Opener]

I like Ajmal, he seems like a good guy but chucking is chucking whether its more or less than 15 degrees.

What is that supposed to mean? Without the rule how do you judge if someone is chucking. You know that this 15 degree rule was brought in because some of the top fast bowlers of the day were bending more than people thought.

You say a lot of players and officials have been raising doubt. Can you name some...

[Wills]

By the sounds of it, a lot of players and officials have been raising doubts about Ajmal's action, behind closed doors at least. You're right though, none of us know for sure whether he is breaking the 15 degree rule but what we do know, without any doubt, is that he gains an advantage from straightening his arm from a bent position as the last few overs from todays play showed. He bowled practically the whole day with a straight arm and then in the last few overs his arm starts visibly straightening from bent and the ball starts turning, more than it has all day and with a ball that's 80 odd overs old...seems to me someone had a word with him about it, he tried to rein it in all day but as the adrenaline rose, he slipped back to his old ways.

Wow, I had never thought of it like that.
So England have not mastered playing Ajmal as some may have thought, but instead it was Ajmal who restrained himself from delivering his best.

[PedalsMcgrew]

What is that supposed to mean? Without the rule how do you judge if someone is chucking. You know that this 15 degree rule was brought in because some of the top fast bowlers of the day were bending more than people thought.

You say a lot of players and officials have been raising doubt. Can you name some...

Read Cricinfo......specifically the quotes from Andy Flower, Jonathon Trott, Shane Warne, Terry Jenner, Stuart McGill and the others who attended the spin 'summit' in Australia a while back...they do not believe that doosra can be bowled without it being thrown.

[Opener]

Read Cricinfo...

LOL... You said players and staff, not anything about media and pundits. England are hardly the first team to face Ajmal's doosra...

[PedalsMcgrew]

Read my edit.......

Actually you only have to look at the ball that got Morgan out to see what I mean.....

[Wills]

Amidst all this talk of Ajmal's chucking, wherever he may be, Mike Hussey must be chuckling after he managed to tear his bowling apart.

[PedalsMcgrew]

The England players themselves played him beautifully in England a couple of years ago too.....the middle order at least seem to have forgotten what they were doing right...

[Wills]

England just can't play spin in the sub-continent, and the pitch in UAE is effectively Pakistani-soil. We've seen it before with England's dismal performance against India in the ODI series. They just need to figure out a way to play it.

[Opener]

Read Cricinfo......specifically the quotes from Andy Flower, Jonathon Trott, Shane Warne, Terry Jenner, Stuart McGill and the others who attended the spin 'summit' in Australia a while back...they do not believe that doosra can be bowled without it being thrown.

So its Andy Flower and Jonathan Trott and I read what they said. As for the spin summit it is a well known opinion on the doosra and not Ajmal. Regarding this opinion it carries weight because of the greats involved (none of them off-spinners). But when people say it can't be bowled with a non-dodgy/freak action I only have 2 words Saqlain Mushtaq... 

[PedalsMcgrew]

Now who's quoting a pundit and not a player or official? You've just taken what the writer of that article said (not a player or official) and used it as your own opinion!

Also, then, if it is a well known opinion that the doosra cannot be bowled legally then my comments can hardly be controversial or in fact cause you any confusion?

[qalib13]

In regards to picking Ajmal's doosra, it effectiveness is greatly improved by its disguise. He bowls with a scrambled seam so the traditional ways of reading it by the hand or the seam position are hindered considerably. That the main reason why he so difficult to pick is because he can bowl, both the doosra and his off break with the exact same action, so no one knows which way it was going to turn. Also his doosra doesn't turn a lot, just subtle movement the other way. especially in comparison to Murali and when it does turn too much it will miss the bat. so its not the amount of turn that gets wicket its not knowing when its coming.

Remember this ball was invented by Saqlain Mushtaq, and he had considerable success with it. but the problem he had was eventually he over-bowled this and most batsmen got used to it and generally picked it most of the time. they negated it and he was towards the end of his international career seen as a one trick pony. Ajmal uses the his ability to disguise to its maximum effect. There have been cases where certain bowlers were banned from bowling their doosra such as Harbhajan, Shohaib Malik and even Murali for a short period time. I know that Malik is still not allowed to bowl his as it illegal and more than 15 degrees. so if Ajmal is chucking why is still allowed to bowl it?

Bottom line, forget all the people who disagree and whether its chucking or not, until the ICC move to ban the doosra altogether, its a legal delivery. So just get on with it and play the ball.