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[Manormanic]

Since when has playing for Yorkshire been a barrier to playing for England?

A barrier to playing for England?  Well, the perception of many is that its certainly a hurdle to overcome and that a talented young Yorkshire lad runs the risk of being passed over for a not quite as talented lad playing for one of the South Eastern/London clubs, Nottinghamshire or for Ashley Giles own side.

Is that a fact rather than perception?  Hard to tell, but there is considerable evidence to support the concern.

Lets look at Rashid as an example.  As of today, his first class record shows 280 wickets at 35 and a batting average of 34, including four centuries, all in pressure situations, and he has been the highest wicket taker amongst English spinners in three of the last four seasons.  When representing England, he's performed well - winning a game against Australia with the bat and doing admirably well with the ball as well (with the exception of one day day at altitude in South Africa). 

Accepted, Swann is definitely our number one spinner but the other three under sonsideration don't match up to these figures very well at all - Samit Patel has a better batting average at 40 , but has taken less than half the wickets in nearly twice the time and at an inferior average.  Oh, and he's unwilling to meet even minimal fitness standards (in that, as of this week I, a 35 year old with serious knee problems and no history of watching my weight, can outperform him on the bleep test).  Then there's James Tredwell, with an equivalent bowling average mostly accrued in Division 2, nothing like the strike rate and a batting average fully ten runs a knock lower.

All this would lead me to suspect that the selectors either know very little about what they're doing, or have some inherent bias, yes.

You can go further though - how do Stuart Meaker and Jade Dernach keep getting selected yet someone like Ajmal Shahzad comes in, performs well under pressure than gets shunted aside?  Ah hold on, there could be something in that Saffer theory....

[Kulli]

I presume Treadwell was picked as backup to Swann, because he brings the ball into RHB's, all the other bowlers mentioned spin it the same way as Panesar and Patel.

Don't really understand the hate for SP getting picked, there aren't may other options that can bat at 6 and be a second spinner and he's done  well in the ODI side recently.

[Manormanic]

Patel?  Well, aside from the fact that he has still not met the minimum standards set out for an England player in terms of fitness and weight (and I stress, after a bit of a health kick, I've managed them, which anyone who knows me will confirm demonstrates that they're pretty manageable targets) and the obvious fact that he is nowhere near an international standard bowler (I laughed when you claimed he turned it!), there is the additional issue that he ain't an international bat either - I agree he might be, but when a guy, when playing in a Championship decider, is so horribly blown up that he throws a ton away then he probably ain't ready to bat in 30 degrees plus for his country.  I would also love to know why Ian Blackwell, who was smaller than Patel and actually reasonably fit and a decent fielder with it, was deemed too big for international cricket by these standards.

As for the 6 spot, I don't see that Prior at six with either Bresnan at seven as one of the three seamers or indeed Rashid at seven and Bresnan eight would weaken the side at all!

[Nickauger]

Oh please!

All this needless speculation fails to grasp what will REALLY happen.

The ECB scouts in Cape Town are as we speak scouting Saffers feverishly to shore up Englands batting as stalwarts start to retire.

No need to concern yourself with the form of young English lads in the ECCC, because there will be a superior Saffer who will have a speck of British DNA in his Afrikaans blood stream that will qualify him ahead of Root, Hildreth, Taylor et al when the time comes.

Fear not, the ECB talent scouts in Cape Town have everything under control!

Nothing better to do today Vic? And to think, you started off on this forum with not a bad word to say about anything and some very insightful posts. Such a shame to see you descend into being such a muppet!

[arc1983]

Bit harsh Nick, thought that was a witty post from our Antipodean friend.... with the underlying theme a fair comment. I have always been very critical of NZ / Aus poaching Pacific Islanders in rugby union, and England's use of South Africans (although they have not actively been seeking them) is pretty similar.

On the Patel / Rashid point, unfortunately Rashid did not have a good year last season and that has put him down the pecking order. I'd pick Patel ahead of Rashid as he does one function very well - batting, where as Rashid is neither a top 6 batsmen or a bowler who can be trusted in a 4 man attack. I do believe he has been dealt a bad hand over the last 3-4 years, but the current selection / coaching team have got very little wrong, so I respect their opinions.

[Nickauger]

It's not wit, it's jealousy lol.

[Blazer]

Notice anything ?

[Manormanic]

Samit Patel was bowling - eff all chance of him beating the bat!

[tushar sehgal]

Notice anything ?

His posture/stance is all wrong :p

[johnnyw]

Didnt wear pads because of the heat

[Nickauger]

Patel and Bopara didn't do any wonders for their chances did they? 14 and 12 off 36 and 40 odd? Is that right?

[charlie15]

Patel and Bopara didn't do any wonders for their chances did they? 14 and 12 off 36 and 40 odd? Is that right?

I think they made up for it today with 72 and 66 respectively!  Swanny didn't do to bad with 31 from 12 to win it either!

[legger123]

I think the teams looking pretty good going in to the series, couple of good wins in the warm up matches. Still unsure on whether Patel or Bopara. Seeing as Bopara may not be able to bowl in the series I think that Patel may just take that No. 6 spot.

Also quite like how Prior hasn't bothered wearing Keeping Pads

[Pitbull]

The pitches seem even flatter than they did in the UAE, wouldn't be surprised if the series ends in a draw. (I say series but two games is hardly a series)

And I would probably go with Patel at 6 means we can have two spinners plus Bres, Broad and Jimmy rather than dropping one of them for Monty

[charlie15]

How about KP, his spin used to be really quite handy!