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[Buzz]

The person using it has the biggest impact on the performance of willow.

[ProWannabe88]

The person using it has the biggest impact on the performance of willow.

Was just thinking that Buzz, I bet tresco etc could go out with a broom handle and still destroy the bowling.

[tushar sehgal]

Would, and ignore the pressing side as we are presuming that the pressing is equal for this question.

I think both bats will play well at different times, depending upon when they reach their peak. I mean there are crap KW bats out there that have surprised me, in the end if the bats and clefts they were made from were identical in size, weight, density etc i would expect them to play equally well,,,one of them might have a slightly longer life but would take a little longer to open up, other one might open up sooner but might not last as long... good example for me is comparison between 2 bats from last 2 seasons,,had a Newbery (9 grains) and had a MB Sher Amin (6 grains), Newbery was exceptional from the begining, MB felt like a plank (both were almost exact same weight, similar profile imo, although MB picked up a little better) so i put the MB in the team bat bag,,,ppl started using it for cathces, nets and then in matches etc and then near the end of last season i decided to try it out in nets and was shocked, both were equally good...it just took MB almost a full season to get to Newbery level..

[Talisman]

Am I right in thinking only 1 person will stick their neck out and comment on the question, I expected more considering the vast list of names reading this.

The claim willow selected for performance is all over the forum, does anyone even know what the claim is?

[ProWannabe88]

I don't know if I'm following correct as between work and here but I'm trying to understand what you're asking Mike. The only connection I've come accross when talking or claiming performance willow is that of low density, and as far as Im concerned I don't know what the difference is as never had one. If I asked for a bat based solely on performance id just expect the brand, maker etc to tap up what meets my specs and send the best one. Am I batting at the wrong end here??

Is there a set procedure for producing or grading 'performance willow' bats or is it just marketing.

[Red Ink Cricket]

i think that whilst we have an image of perfection in our heads (nice grains etc etc) it all comes down to the fact the willow is a natural thing. we cant control its growing process. we can obviously reduce knots by removing sprouting branches etc and ensure the ground/conditions are suited for growth but as far as im aware it will grow how it grows. you can get a dog of a cleft that out performs a looker. i would imagine that the cleft has inbuilt properties which already confirms its status as a gun, regardless of looks. i think everyone has a preconception that looks = better. we do that with alot of things in life. better looking girl, better looking car etc etc.
i guess someone with the knowledge of the willow would be able to generalise in saying that perfect grains = perfect performance and that doggy cleft wont do much but there are always exceptions to the rule. no two clefts are the same. if clefts vary so much performance could vary, same with shape, size etc etc

grains impact on the stiffness of the willow, more grains the stiffer the cleft. this is only beneficial if the pressing is varied per cleft. if not all you will have is a bit of hit and miss

[Simmy]

its a way of bat makers getting rid of awfull looking clefts by calling them Performance clefts!

they look diffrent but play no diffrent?

[tushar sehgal]

I don't know if I'm following correct as between work and here but I'm trying to understand what you're asking Mike. The only connection I've come accross when talking or claiming performance willow is that of low density, and as far as Im concerned I don't know what the difference is as never had one. If I asked for a bat based solely on performance id just expect the brand, maker etc to tap up what meets my specs and send the best one. Am I batting at the wrong end here??

I am in your boat too mate,,,

Performance willow = low density, light weight = bigger bat for a relatively smaller weight, not the best looking willow but worth it...probs drier too...

that is what i have read/learnt/assumed it to be but not sure...

[tushar sehgal]

its a way of bat makers getting rid of awfull looking clefts by calling them Performance clefts!

they look diffrent but play no diffrent?

Should it be: getting rid of awfull looking clefts by calling them Performance clefts at a similar price to better looking willow?

[Mad Bobbin]

Does that not come down to pressing as well though. No matter how good a bat looks if its poorly pressed it will not perform to its potential. Is that not correct??

Having seen picked up and used three different grading of bat from the same maker, in which the willow comes from different batches and they all go as well as each, I agree with Pro.

My personal point of view is that "Performance Willow"is put out there to sell bats at a higher price and therefore a gimmick.

[ProWannabe88]

I am in your boat too mate,,,

Performance willow = low density, light weight = bigger bat for a relatively smaller weight, not the best looking willow but worth it...probs drier too...

that is what i have read/learnt/assumed it to be but not sure...

Not necessarily ugly though mate, I've had loads of requests for bats based only on rebound qualities and a fair few have also been full of lush grains.

It just winds me up all this technical stuff, simply because I don't know it. But we are here to find out are we not?? Come on Baron Von Talisman educate me please sir

[Simmy]

Having seen picked up and used three different grading of bat from the same maker, in which the willow comes from different batches and they all go as well as each, I agree with Pro.

My personal point of view is that "Performance Willow"is put out there to sell bats at a higher price and therefore a gimmick.

that is what i was trying to say but in a far more readable form lol

[ProWannabe88]

Having seen picked up and used three different grading of bat from the same maker, in which the willow comes from different batches and they all go as well as each, I agree with Pro.

My personal point of view is that "Performance Willow"is put out there to sell bats at a higher price and therefore a gimmick.

I have to agree with you as well mate. I have numerous bats with me now grades as  mp+2 blueroom but they all go very well, but are reduced in price according to the grading. If this is just about a slogan 'performance willow' atached to lower grade bats then its a tough one to call because yes you want to clear your stock but you arent necessarily selling an inferior product to the cosmetically better bats. It's a tough one, or I'm just too simple to understand it lol

[tushar sehgal]

I think i feel the need to add some additional points here:

I would imagine/expect performance willow bat to be equally as good simply because the bat makers reputations relies on selling bats that go..i know there might be odd bat here and there that is not as good..if i had a cleft that was ugly but i knew it would still play but wont sell unless i brand/name it something attractive...

So isnt it finally down to selling a bat that is comparable to other bats but ppl might look away if its ugly, so sell that as performance willow, now if you find a cleft that is good looking, lighter etc then that becomes "pro preformance" willow hence fetching even more money...

I might get hanged for this but couldn't you categorize GM Players bats as performance willow bats? they are not the prettiest looking willow...

[Talisman]

Ignoring shape and pressing you want a blade that will offer you consistently high performance. Evenly spaced grains offer this, the more grains the stiffer the face but when you get a really tight blade 16+ the stiffness can make it hard to press so 10-12 would be the most common in the very best performers, colour does not seem to effect this even though the heartwood is a bit drier and therefore a little more stiff and brittle than the sapwood.

Speck and fleck is the depositing of minerals in the willow whilst growing, it tends not to offer any performance gain or loss but overall adds a little in weight.

Pin knots are harder and less responsive but can work well in the toe or shoulder of the bat.

Stain can come in many forms, the typical butterfly and bar stain are due to the willow coming from an older variety of willow, it was phased out for cosmetic reasons but those old enough to remember when it was common point to it offering a slightly lower density and improved resilience. Blue willow is caused by uptake of Iron, again this tends to be rare as caused by the siting of the tree's and adds strength to the blade.

Density is an unknown factor in growing, some trees produce low density willow but rather than being down to one factor or another is probably due to a combination and has proved fickle to narrow down. Low density tends to be found across the grades.

The end result is that when you look at the bats supplied by bat makers to players, and by that I mean professional players you see what we on the forum would class as pretty bats but also big for their weight.

For us a bat with clean straight and even grains is going to play better than one without, based on being made the same way.