Flintoff's tirade at Atherton
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Tail Ender

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Flintoff's tirade at Atherton
« on: June 22, 2012, 01:51:05 AM »

I'm sure you guys have all read/seen/heard about this now. Thoughts? Personally, I've always thought Atherton to be a perceptive pundit and Flintoff to be a bit of a 'f-cking pr-ck' myself, talented though he may have been. He says that Atherton "sits there making judgements" - well, yeah that is what he is paid to do as a commentator. Is he thick?


Andrew Flintoff launches scathing attack on Sky pundit Michael Atherton

Andrew Flintoff launched an expletive-ridden attack on fellow former England captain and Lancashire team-mate Mike Atherton on Thursday and also questioned his credentials to commentate on international cricket.
 


Flintoff described Atherton as a “f------ p----” at a party thrown in London by Sky, a company which employs both former cricketers.

Atherton has built a reputation as a respected commentator and broadcaster since retiring from international cricket in 2002, winning numerous awards for his writing.

But he made critical comments about Flintoff when he captained England to an Ashes whitewash in 2006.

Flintoff has cut his ties with cricket since injury forced his retirement in 2010, opting instead for a life of celebrity game shows and television travelogues working for Sky as a panellist on A League of Their Own.

England have grown as a side since he retired from Test cricket at the end of the 2009 Ashes series, becoming the best Test team in the world, and Lancashire won the county championship outright for the first time in 77 years last season without the talismanic all-rounder.

Unlike many former leading England players, Flintoff has shied away from cricket commentary and is only ever seen at matches sitting in the hospitality area. On Tuesday he was at the Oval, where his agent, Richard Thompson, is the chairman of Surrey, for England’s match against West Indies.

Atherton did not respond to Flintoff’s comments on Thursday which went further than just mindless swearing.

“He sits there making judgments about players that are much better than he ever was, believe me, he’s a p----. How can he talk about a player like Alastair Cook who is 10 times the player he ever was — he has a much bigger average and will go on and on,” said Flintoff.

“Atherton averaged in the 30s for England and yet he thinks he can judge others.” When told he was talking to a journalist at the Sky event, he replied: “I don’t care. Say what you like. There’s no love lost there.”

Flintoff’s criticisms are more direct but in some ways mirror Kevin Pietersen’s attack on Nick Knight, another Sky pundit, last month.

He was fined £5,000 by the England management for questioning whether Knight’s career record gave him the right to criticise current players, particularly Pietersen himself.

Atherton opened the batting for England for more than a decade during a time when the depth of fast bowling talent was deeper than the current era.

He averaged 37.69 from 115 Tests. Flintoff was a magnificent bowler for England at times during his career and was a key part of their 2005 Ashes winning side. But he managed only three five-wicket hauls for England, averaging 32 with the ball.
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FvanN

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Re: Flintoff's tirade at Atherton
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2012, 05:16:21 AM »

Atherton has his opinions and flintoff has his opinions... Funny they might be but never the less there own opinions.. Would have expected Flintoff to have a bit more style with regards to his comments but at least he does not beat around the bush...  :)

It does seem thou that a lot of players now days are getting more and more fed up of the pundits.... Unfortunately its turning the game we love into a sports version of East Enders..... >:(
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Buzz

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Re: Flintoff's tirade at Atherton
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2012, 05:45:58 AM »

Flintoff must have been on the source.

I find it hard not to agree with a lot of what Athers says. plus he apologised to Cook ages ago.

Freddie hasn't come out of this smelling of roses!
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pacman75cricket

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Re: Flintoff's tirade at Atherton
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2012, 05:49:53 AM »

By his own thinking what right does he have to criticise Athers when athers averaged 37 + flintoff averaged 31?
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Tail Ender

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Re: Flintoff's tirade at Atherton
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2012, 06:11:03 AM »

My favourite part of this article was "Unlike many former leading England players, Flintoff has shied away from cricket commentary ", which doesn't mention he's commentated on darts (darts FFS), fully tanked up and acting up.
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steelcouch

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Re: Flintoff's tirade at Atherton
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2012, 06:37:44 AM »

I hate the line "because you were not a top international player you are not allowed to comment" What about professional journalists?
today's players are quite a bunch of prima donnas. To me neither Pieterson or Flintoff have ever demonstrated intellect worthy of making judgement on journalistics skills. I happen to agree about Nick Night, and dont think he brings anything to Skys team to be fair. But Atherton is a good and award winning writer and an interesting commentator both personable and insightive who has been on our screens for well over 10 years. To make one wrong judgment in ten years.... Freddie made about 10 in one season on the pitch and many many more off the field. Pissing in number ten's garden, not being able to speak on tv, peadalow.... jeeze you could go on. Freddie seems a nice bloke, did well for England and was/is someone that the man on the street can relate to. He did bring people to cricket and has been richly rewarded for it, but that does not in my opinion give him the right to criticize true legends of the game, who also sacrificed his body for English cricket, and WAS a very good player in times where bowling was better and he had to battle against his own cricket board, run nets!! and basically bat for England on his own a lot of the time. He basically ran english cricket. Yeah  i think that qualifies him to be able to comment! He was never the prima donna of these days when there seems to be a problem if everyone s not holding there hands, throwing millions at them and blowing smoke up their (No Swearing Please).
I assume Freddy was pissed!
Why cant the player, ex or current just shut their mouths and not bring cricket down to the level of football, or Eatenders. Part of the honorrable nature of the game, comparded to others sports is part of it's appeal. Especially in the modern world. Cricket gives you a break from the
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iand123

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Re: Flintoff's tirade at Atherton
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2012, 06:46:51 AM »

Whilst I think Freddie hasn't done himself any favours in this episode, I find it amazing how the sports journos have jumped on him. After years of building him up they now seem to take any opportunity to knock him down (e.g. The number of journos on twitter referring him to as "tv's Andrew flintoff). I think the standards of sports journalism is on an ever decreasing trend in this country. They are paid to have their opinions, but as soon as anyone has an opinion about one of them they all pull together like kids in a playground (take the KP nick knight and backlash from the rest of the press)

It seems the cricket media are in danger of following the football journos in thinking that thu actually make or break players/coaches/teams. With everything thats goig on in the world of cricket they seem to only be concerned with an ex international calling a pundit a p***k!!! The editor (I think) of AOC put on twitter that this particular source is a bit sneaky, worth checking out their posts from last night on twitter
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 06:48:47 AM by iand123 »
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PM7

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Re: Flintoff's tirade at Atherton
« Reply #7 on: June 22, 2012, 06:56:47 AM »

What are the chances that Freddie was well oiled at the interview?
This is not the usual tirade thats comes from a sensible person
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ppccopener

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Re: Flintoff's tirade at Atherton
« Reply #8 on: June 22, 2012, 07:21:06 AM »

i find it interesting during the time KP and Freddie shared an England dressing room it was percived KP to be the massive ego/problem player.
An easy target sometimes KP, the figure of hate for some journalists,he's not english,says what he thinks,money grabber etc etc.

freddie will always be a hero for us fans but perhaps peoples opinions are swayed because KP has always been easy to dislike.As a person i dont particularly like KP but you cannot argue about his dedication and professionalism.And cricket nowadays is a professional business.
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Kulli

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Re: Flintoff's tirade at Atherton
« Reply #9 on: June 22, 2012, 07:42:52 AM »

Freddies a tit, going to end up old and bitter like Botham.
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tim2000s

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Re: Flintoff's tirade at Atherton
« Reply #10 on: June 22, 2012, 07:48:59 AM »

I've heard from more than one person who's had the joy of sharing a dressing room with him that he has a "bit of an ego" and that he's not a very pleasant person to be around....

Never met him myself so it's just hearsay...
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charlie15

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Re: Flintoff's tirade at Atherton
« Reply #11 on: June 22, 2012, 08:21:30 AM »

I was quite surprised when I read this, I would presume Flintoff had had a few when he said it, and it would be interesting to see if he offers some form of apology although I doubt it.

Personally I have always felt that Flintoff has been a tad overrated, his performances in the 2005 Ashes series aside, I don't really think he achieved the heights that some people seem to think he did.  That's not saying he wasn't a good player.

Athers on the other hand captained an England side at time when you had some world class quicks around (McGrath, Donald, Waqar, Akram, Ambrose, Walsh) and as an opener would of faced all of these guys, his heroics at the Jo'burg test in 95 is a case in point.  He also had the headaches of the absolute shambles that was the TCCB and the selection policy at that time.  As a journo I have always found him to be insightful and knowledgable.  The below summary from cricinfo sums his career up perfectly;

"Gutsy and stubborn, single-minded and sledger-proof, Mike Atherton was an opener in the classic English tradition, making batting look like trench warfare. Defence was his forte, but when his bad back wasn't playing up, he hooked freely and timed the ball sweetly through point. In opponents' eyes, he was England's most wanted man for the seven years until his retirement at the end of the 2001 Ashes. Thrust into the captaincy at the age of 25, he proved more durable than successful, but after finally resigning in 1998, he slipped comfortably into the role of elder statesman. Australia seldom saw the best of him, but his relish for a personal duel did much to bring about series victories over both South Africa (1998) and West Indies (2000). He retired in 2001 and slipped easily into the media, establishing a reputation as one of the better player-broadcasters as well as a no-nonsense journalist."

And this tribute to him;

It surprised nobody. Mike Atherton bowed out of Test cricket not with a sumptuous century but with a niggardly 9. His destroyer? That script had been written a long time ago.

At 12.15 on a gloomy Sunday, as England were following on, Glenn McGrath metronomed in, extracted some extra bounce, and Atherton edged him to Warne. He was McGrath's bunny for the sixth time in this series and for a world-record 19th time in all.

But records are just numbers, and numbers tell you next to nothing about Atherton. A final Test average of 38 adds up to just an adequate Test cricketer. But he was more than adequate, much more. For a decade he held England together. Nobody in the world has scored more Test runs since the start of the 1990s. He was the toffee apple surrounded by candy floss, the wicket above all others that the opposition savoured.

He was strong off the back foot, happiest pulling the fast bowlers, happiest of all when his back (which gave him much pain over the years) was forced against the wall. His defining moment came at Johannesburg in 1995-96, with a 643-minute 185 not out, which defied the forces of Allan Donald and Shaun Pollock and saved a Test that had been down and out. Make that defining monument.

And then two and a half years later, again against South Africa, again against Donald, he sealed his reputation. At Trent Bridge, in a session of cricket which parched the mouth, he resisted a furious onslaught of short-pitched bowling from around the wicket to take England to a series-turning victory.

Though he has never worn his nationality on his sleeve like Alec Stewart, Mike Atherton is nothing if not English. From his stubbornness to his accent, from his scruffiness to his guts, he oozed pride in his job - never made excuses for a bad shot, always knew that there was more to life than a century. And despite his media persona of impeccable grumpiness, perfected during his record-breaking run as captain, he was much loved by the public. An Englishman who made runs during the 1990s was forgiven anything.

He was an unconventional cricketer. He didn't marry early, he hasn't had children, he didn't care to flash his private life around the papers. He preferred Pat Barker to Tom Clancy and chess to PlayStation. He wasn't afraid of controversy - the dirt-in-the-pocket affair, his unconcealed disagreements with his second chairman of selectors Ray Illingworth, his early promotion to the captaincy over the head of the un-Cambridge-educated Stewart.

He wanted to leave without a fuss, and he did. There was no bang, but neither, despite the single-figure score, was there a hint of a whimper. Cricket will miss Michael Atherton.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2012, 08:24:11 AM by charlie15 »
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Jaymo

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Re: Flintoff's tirade at Atherton
« Reply #12 on: June 23, 2012, 06:00:16 PM »

Walsh, Ambrose, McGrath, Warne, Gillespie, Murali, Kahn, Akram, Younis, Hadlee, Dev, Kumble, Donald, Pollock, to name a few bowlers Atherton played against at their primes.........

To average near enough 38 in tests and be a decent respected captain is a very good effort in my eyes!?
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PM7

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Re: Flintoff's tirade at Atherton
« Reply #13 on: June 23, 2012, 08:53:35 PM »

Freddie has made himself appear even more foolish with this tirade.
As previously said any Englishman that scored runs in the 90s was highly respected.
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ppccopener

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Re: Flintoff's tirade at Atherton
« Reply #14 on: June 23, 2012, 09:18:36 PM »

If you look at the kist above of bowlers in the 90'S it impossible for atherton not to have earned the respect he should get from flintoff in particular.there isnt the same quality of bowling around today.anyone old enough(me) who saw walsh v athers on a quick jamaica pitch saw a brave batsman.and dont even go there with donald v athers at trent bridge.donald bowled the quickest spell ive seen and our skipper did not flinch.legendary.
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