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[Manormanic]

I suspect they'll pretend that nothing is wrong - the Andocracy have, after all, made great play out of unswerving loyalty in the past few years and for the most part have generated the results to justify that policy.

But yes, there needs to be a general freshening of the side before the India series and especially as they go over to New Zealand which is likely to be, in one form or another, the start of the next cycle of this England side.  I think Bairstow has shown enough that he should be given a long run in the team, and I would like to see Joe Root in there because, believe me, the kid is a class above the other younsgters on the circuit (and I include Taylor in that, who may be too small and short on power to be a Test batsman).  I'd also like to see a change in policy, with some consideration given to the make up of their bowling attack because I am in no way convinced that four bowlers is the way going forward.

Rather than saying "the team should be X", here is the seventeen I'd like to see selected as a generic, all conditions squad for the next twelve months:


Batsmen: Alistair Cook, Joe Root, Ian Bell, Jonathan Trott, Kevin Pietersen, Jonny Bairstow

Wicketkeepers: Matt Prior with Bairstow as reserve.

Spinners: Graeme Swann, Simon Kerrigan, Adil Rashid

Seamers: Tim Bresnan, Steven Finn, Jimmy Anderson, Graeme Onions, and either Stuart Broad or Tymal Mills

All Rounders: Ben Stokes and Chris Woakes.

Strauss probably won't like beiong retired, but I get the feeling that he is at the end of his run as an international cricketer - if England are committed to getting back to number one in the world, they need to show some ruthlessness, and this is the way to go about it!

[ajmw89]

I think Meaker should probably be there ahead of Mills though...

[Manormanic]

I think Meaker should probably be there ahead of Mills though...

really?  he just seems a bit innocuous to me, kind of similar to Chris Silverwood as a bowler who hit great numbers on a speed gun but was not really much more than gun barrell straight at the top level, whereas Mills, whilst obviously needing time to develop, seems to get some action on the ball and has the massive advantage of being a left armer.

[FattusCattus]

Gosh - there's an awful lot of knee-jerk going on!

Trott is not a bad player overnight, neither is Broad. There is life after KP and he doesn't have the divine right to be in the side and shoot his mouth off to whoever - any player would have been dropped.

England have simply come up against a better side, and we should just deal with it.

Work with your best 16 players (this 11 plus another spinner, another keeper and another batsman + 2 seamers).

We are not a bad side, we've simply been outplayed - see how those you've mentioned go against a weaker side before casting them out!

[ajmw89]

really?  he just seems a bit innocuous to me, kind of similar to Chris Silverwood as a bowler who hit great numbers on a speed gun but was not really much more than gun barrell straight at the top level, whereas Mills, whilst obviously needing time to develop, seems to get some action on the ball and has the massive advantage of being a left armer.

The few times I've seen meaker at county level this season he seems to have been getting prodigious swing.  He also offers something different to Finn/Broad/Anderson as he is shorter than all of them and skids the ball on at pace.

[johnnyw]

Rashid is nowhere near test class. He would get torn apart against a good batting line up. It would be the finish of Joe Root if he is let near the test team inside the next 18 months. He will be a great player in the future.

The talk of Trott playing badly is pure rubbish. He has had a quiet series but he has not had a bad one. He is still at the crease on day 5 of this test so he could go on to score big runs today for all we know.

Stuart broad is a world class seamer still who just like Trott has had a quiet series.

KP needs to get his attitude sorted and I honestly think the English team is better without him

I would like to see Woakes appear in the team shortly aswell as I have always rated him very highly

[Manormanic]

Piffle!  Why on earth would it be the finish of Joe Root?  The kid is class, and needs to step up sooner rather than later.

As for Broad, I am one of many who have been saying the same thing for years - he appears to have a divine right to be selected when his performances rarely warrant it.  Moreover, he never seems to be willing to go the proverbial extra mile - he does not seem to apply himself to his batting, despite having the talent to be a workable number eight, and his pace has dropped consistently since he came into the international game...

None of this is knee jerk, its merely a case of picking the right time for an evolution in the side; unless we are convinced that Strauss is the man to take the side into two Ashes series and that he will be worth his place as a batsman in both, they really need to consider his place now.

[Buzz]

Ok - I have done a bit of editing to split the knee jerks around!

the key for me is that we are going to India next, not New Zealand.
What I would do is the following.

Cook and Trott to open (and tell both to get some runs)
Bell (should have been at 3 for ages)
KP (sort it out, ditch your advisors, eat humble pie etc, etc)
Bairstow (earned the slot0
Strauss (hide him at 6 for a while to manage the transition - opening and captaining is too much for him, he shouldn't be afraid to bat lower down)
Prior (keep doing it)
Swann (get fit i.e. sort out the elbow)
Board (you aren't as good as you think you are, recogise that and you will be a decent player)
Anderson (get fit - sort out the ankle)
Finn (keep doing it and keep working at your bowling action)

yes this is rearranging the deck chairs, but that is the best we can do at the moment.

[Manormanic]

would you really go to India with only four bowlers and only a single spinner though?

[Buzz]

good question - the answer is I am not sure - do you pick Monty and Chris Woakes/Bresnan? and leave out two of Anderson, Finn, Board, Strauss or Bairstow

[Johnny]

Do we think England have lost because they aren't good enough, or have they just not performed, or are SA just THAT good!?

Can Strauss take the team any further? Can't see us going to India and winning.

Not sure what changes if any should be made???

Having struggled to bowl SA out in this series I think a 5 man attack would have been a good shout, but England not prepared to give it a go

[Manormanic]

Personally, I would go with a five man attack - Prior is good enough to bat at six, Bresnan at seven and Swann at eight; that would leave an admittedly rabbitlike selection of Anderson, Finn and, for me, Kerrigan at the bottom of the pile but should still have enough potency (as a side order, the more I think about it, the more I'd be inclined to rest Anderson in India. He is not going to get that much from the pitches, the ball rarely swings past the tenth over and he has been going full on for a long time. 

[Manormanic]

Do we think England have lost because they aren't good enough, or have they just not performed, or are SA just THAT good!?

Can Strauss take the team any further? Can't see us going to India and winning.

SA are, for me, marginally the better side of the two - a side at the apex of their development rather than one just past it.  There has never been a lot in it but, for the first time since the 2006/7 Ashes, England lost the big moments, and that has been the difference.

My own view is stated above - Strauss has probably taken the side as far as he can.  He remains an excellent leader but I really doubt that he will make hundreds against the top test sides again and that, aside with the unlikeliness of him playing in the same side as KP in the future, means he should perhaps be put out to grass.

[Bez013]

I don't think this group have become "bad" over night, yes 2012 has been bad for the batsmen as they all appear to have had a poor run and sadly only KP is averaging over 40 in 2012. 

The SA side are a very very good unit and England aren't that far behind, this Test Match is very close but I think England will do their usual and make an absolute hash of things today and make the gap appear larger than it is.

[Manormanic]

as I've already mentioned elswewhere, it comes ddown to key moments - the fresher team has seized the majority of those big passages of play and will therefore, barring miracles, take the series.