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[Vitas Cricket]

OK so I guess I'm in the lucky position to not to have to face the best spinner in our league, possibly the whole area, because he plays for my club. On the other hand I do have to keep to him! I'm looking for any advice as I don't have a problem standing up to any other spinners/medium pacers, but against him I concede a fair few byes and miss the odd stumping too.

He was at Notts for 6 years and by all accounts probably should have 'made it' - he's a mess of a man on and off the field though, so I can see how they decided he was too much of a risk.

He bowls a stock off spinner that turns big. He's also got a big turning wrong un with no change of action, there's also a seam up delivery which I'm only just starting to pick (near identical action again) after two years that swings away late! His armball is pickable but not very playable, not that relevant to me as it usually hits the stumps/pads.

When he turns it, it spits and can generate a lot of bounce, this is proving difficult as I often have no idea which way it's going to go! When batting against him in nets, he takes great delight in watching all of us plonk our front pad down with our bat somewhere nearby, and then we watch the ball spit past either one of our shoulders. I'm a little better at judging which way it's going to go as I've kept to him for 2 seasons, but it's still mostly guesswork.

My question is this:

Obviously the batsman is likely to have no clue where it's going to go (so I often have to try and spot the ball passing through a flurry of bat/pad/body) and usually I don't have much of a clue either, so how the hell do I take the ball consistently?

We've tried signals but this tends to put him out of his rhythm and for want of a better word is a bit 'schoolboy'

I assumed over time I would start to pick him a little better, but even the best batsmen in our league find him unplayable, and I'm far from the best, so I think after two years of watching his action regularly, picking him accurately is not going to be a solution.

Do I need to sit back a little further from the stumps and wait for the turn, then react to it? This could prove problematic for a ball pitching on middle or leg, as I'll probably be unsighted.
On the other hand, Other than an exceptional offspinner, he rarely bowls down the legside unless he's toying with someone or his big away swinger doesn't swing, but I feel i need to make allowances for both if I'm going to prove myself as premier league keeper.

Any input will be useful,

Cheers guys

Jake

[Coach]

I've kept to a few guys who bowl multiple variations. You best bet is to have him bowl to you, and shout out which one it is, watch the hand, you will soon start to see subtle differences in his release. Its too late if your reading it from the pitch!

[swamidude]

I've never been in this position because at my club our spinners bowl absolute pies

Perhaps spend an hour or so in the nets with him asking him to bowl his stock ball, then wrong-un, then the seam-up. Keep him bowling these three in rotation until you can see the differences in the delivery. Because of the fact that you can expect which delivery will be which you'll learn how to position yourself better for each variation. As for unpredictable bounce, the nets can't help that much unfortunately, just experience and reading the pitch!

Good luck!

[Red Ink Cricket]

i agree with greg.

get him to bowl at you for a bit and get him to shout out the delivery. atleast that way you know hopefully what it should do. that way you can relax and work out anything special he does for that delivery. may only be minor but could be something you can spot. once you have gone through all the deliveries then get him to mix it up a little and see how you get on. standing up to someone who spins it is never easy as pitches arent always that predictable and if the batsman hasnt got a clue your sometimes looking for a ball through a swinging bat and pads all over the place.

both spinners in my side are good but dont have massive variations. one offie and one SLA. both however do get alot of bounce which on some of the wickets we play can be very difficult. i think as long as your not giving away loads of byes then its ok. were not professionals and therefore arent going to stop everything.

[ammo]

when he is bowling in the nets to batsmen you can get in there and keep (provided there is enough room) and you should also get him to tell you what variation he is going to bowl every few balls so you know whats going to happen to the ball (don't need to worry about that as much) now all you need to do is watch him closely and see what he does differently and store in your memory bank. All of that in the nets by the way if you can.

[ammo]

^ oh Greg said the same thing 

[Vitas Cricket]

Thanks guys I will try this, but having attempted to study him for 2 seasons I'm convinced there's no change of action!

[Buzz]

Thanks guys I will try this, but having attempted to study him for 2 seasons I'm convinced there's no change of action!

From a batsmans perspective, there is always a tell - you just have to know what it is. If you haven't worked it out, then how about filming his action from where the keeper stands for all his variations and look at the differences.
They will be shown with variations in stride length, body position and wrist positon.

[Leddster138]

Agree with Buzz here. There is always a difference, it's about finding it.

Stand behind at the back of a net and have him bowl into it, that way you don't have to worry about dealing with the ball when trying to find his "tells".

Start your focus on the hand and wrist position. If his wrong un is out the back of the hand or in doosra format, his wrist will be in a different poistion at the moment of release. Keep focussing on this area until you spot something. If he's ex pro then his arm will probably come over quicker then most spinners, in which case ask him to build up to a speed or move your focus to the shoulder. Again this will be in a different possition (sometimes more chest on).

Reading between the lines, if he hasn't helped you pick him in two years and won't give you a signal then you'll probably find he gets a bit of a kick out of tircking you as well as the batsmen

Moin khan used to pick Saqlain Mushtaqs doosra by how he was holding the ball when he ran in! Saqlain then started to cover his hand up!

[tushar sehgal]

Only thing i would add to what everyone else is saying is ask him how he bowls different variations i.e. stand next to him and ask him to show you how he grips and releases the ball for each variation and stock ball. Then do the step Greg mentioned...

Once you know what he is trying to do it might be easier to spot...would love to see a video of him bowling though sounds like a real challange to bat against

[IQ]

would love to see a video of him bowling though sounds like a real challange to bat against

+1

 Considering the level of spinners in County cricket this guy must have a good chance!
 

[tim2000s]

+1

 Considering the level of spinners in County cricket this guy must have a good chance!

He was let go by Notts due to his inconsistencies... As the first post says!

[Vitas Cricket]

His inconsistencies with life/turning up to training etc more than his cricket ability were the reasons they let him go, this was about 7 years ago i think.

Thanks for the tips guys, i don't think he is deliberately trying to trick me as suggested, the problem is, as with many great sportsmen, he doesn't really know how he's doing what he's doing, and finds it difficult to explain/coach it. The old case of great players not becoming great coaches.

I think getting him to tell me what he's bowling while i stand and watch, and possibly videoing it will help. I'l give that a shot at nets when they start next week.

[IQ]

Few years back when Doosra had just begun - me and a mate practiced for hours trying to bowl it, we couldnt do it!

After a lot of wasted nets my mate started bowling the doosra unknowingly - even while trying to bowl normal offies. Muscle memory override?

Sometimes a bowler cannot jot down his mechanical workings just like Jake (Vitas) has said in the above post.

[Vulcan Cricket]

chat to him and get him to bowl at you with no batsman from over and round the wicket get him to tell you what hes going to bowl then after you are use to it get him to mix it up with out telling you and then bring a batter in with a stump to add to the batter moveing etc as this will then be like game play

hope this helps   dean