Topic: Willow grades, do you trust your retailer? (Read 5245 times)

Vitas Cricket · « **on:** January 24, 2013, 01:49:12 AM »

I posted this on CI a while back but had little response. I'm curious, how many of you take a retailers word as gospel when it comes to a bat being grade 1, grade 2 etc? Especially from the bigger boys like the owzats of this world?

Looking at a bat and deciding what grade of willow it is can be one of the most difficult parts of the buying process. Even to a trained eye it is arguably the most complex part of the industry.

I ask because while doing a bit of research to decide on our prices for 2013 i became pretty annoyed at the sheer lies from even the biggest retailers.

Quick example:

http://www.owzat-cricket.co.uk/acatalog/2013_Slazenger_V100_TAS_Pro_Cricket_Bats.html

Owzat clearly claiming this is grade 1 willow.

http://www.vitascricket.co.uk/products.php?id=727

We state the correct grade of willow, grade 2.

Do the big companies think their customers are idiots? It only takes 2 minutes to look in the Slazenger 2013 catalogue and see that a Pro level bat is grade 2.

The problem then gets legitimised by rival companies, spreading false info:

http://www.talentcricket.co.uk/slazenger_v100_tas_cricket_bats/slazenger_v100_tas_pro_cricket_bat/c436p133.html

Now i freely admit i copy and paste plenty of descriptions, but i give them a quick proof read for accuracy of content and also for spelling first!

In my opinion, this one is worse:

http://www.owzat-cricket.co.uk/acatalog/2013_Slazenger_V360_Test_Cricket_Bats.html

http://www.vitascricket.co.uk/products.php?id=737

Plenty of people out there who don't mind buying a good grade 2 bat, but when a grade 3 turns up will they be so happy?

Are there any other examples out there? eBay aside of course, every dirty old piece of driftwood is Grade 1++++ on eBay...

i12breakfree · « **Reply #1 on:** January 24, 2013, 03:49:39 AM »

Wow .. Thanks for bringing that up. Never thought this can be an issue
I assumed that there will be only one source of such info .i.e from the brand owner .
May be worth a shot asking these retailers on twitter?

ammo · « **Reply #2 on:** January 24, 2013, 03:52:11 AM »

WHen i look to buy a new bat in stores i consider all the grade spend a few hours browsing looking for the best deal.(annoys the shop keepers some times)

Old boy · « **Reply #3 on:** January 24, 2013, 05:19:45 AM »

I'll always check what the manufacturer stats as opposed to the retailer, too many inconsistencies in retail land...

FvanN · « **Reply #4 on:** January 24, 2013, 07:01:22 AM »

I tend to know what bat I'm looking for so already know what grade it will be. But that said I don't buy bats from retailers due to the extream prices they charge.

A quality bat from a well known retailer sells for �400 now days but on here you can get a custom made bat for less money and there is now way anybody can tell me a �400 true Grade 1 bat plays better than a �250-�300 true custom made Grade 1 bat.

Six Sixes Cricket · « **Reply #5 on:** January 24, 2013, 10:16:29 AM »

I doubt most even read the descriptions. Most people Enter the bat info into to google, find the cheapest price, make sure they are legit and buy.

ItsJustCricket · « **Reply #6 on:** January 24, 2013, 10:31:47 AM »

Quote from: Vitas Cricket on January 24, 2013, 01:49:12 AM

I posted this on CI a while back but had little response. I'm curious, how many of you take a retailers word as gospel when it comes to a bat being grade 1, grade 2 etc? Especially from the bigger boys like the owzats of this world?

Looking at a bat and deciding what grade of willow it is can be one of the most difficult parts of the buying process. Even to a trained eye it is arguably the most complex part of the industry.

I ask because while doing a bit of research to decide on our prices for 2013 i became pretty annoyed at the sheer lies from even the biggest retailers.

Quick example:

http://www.owzat-cricket.co.uk/acatalog/2013_Slazenger_V100_TAS_Pro_Cricket_Bats.html

Owzat clearly claiming this is grade 1 willow.

http://www.vitascricket.co.uk/products.php?id=727

We state the correct grade of willow, grade 2.

Do the big companies think their customers are idiots? It only takes 2 minutes to look in the Slazenger 2013 catalogue and see that a Pro level bat is grade 2.

The problem then gets legitimised by rival companies, spreading false info:

http://www.talentcricket.co.uk/slazenger_v100_tas_cricket_bats/slazenger_v100_tas_pro_cricket_bat/c436p133.html

Now i freely admit i copy and paste plenty of descriptions, but i give them a quick proof read for accuracy of content and also for spelling first!

In my opinion, this one is worse:

http://www.owzat-cricket.co.uk/acatalog/2013_Slazenger_V360_Test_Cricket_Bats.html

http://www.vitascricket.co.uk/products.php?id=737

Plenty of people out there who don't mind buying a good grade 2 bat, but when a grade 3 turns up will they be so happy?

Are there any other examples out there? eBay aside of course, every dirty old piece of driftwood is Grade 1++++ on eBay...

To be honest, Jake, I am more surprised by the laziness of some retailers to copy and paste text from their competitors?!!

On the grading front, I would accept it more for Kookaburra and GN bats, as they don't seem to publish their grades anywhere and leave it up to the retailer to judge / guess. But as you say, Slazenger are one of the more open ones, with the grades clearly listed in their catalogue, so seeing this from the likes of Talent and Owzat is laughable in my opinion. I sincerely hope few punters are swayed by this and don't end up buying on false pretences.

I also disagree with what others have said on here - I think this sort of thing is important and is certainly read, especially by uneducated parents, who perhaps don't play cricket themselves, and are buying for their children, which comprises a large percentage of our market.

Bruce · « **Reply #7 on:** January 24, 2013, 10:50:55 AM »

Jake I agree with you completely, but we don't know if these retailers are grading on performance or on willow grade.
Wrights say that anything with heartwood on is grade 2. How many top end Gray Nics bats do you see with heart wood? A lot!
They are obviously grading willow themselves.

Very grey area.

johnnyw · « **Reply #8 on:** January 24, 2013, 10:53:03 AM »

Quote from: Bruce on January 24, 2013, 10:50:55 AM

Jake I agree with you completely, but we don't know if these retailers are grading on performance or on willow grade.
Wrights say that anything with heartwood on is grade 2. How many top end Gray Nics bats do you see with heart wood? A lot!
They are obviously grading willow themselves.

Very grey area.

GN use there own willow so they grade it from stratch unlike other companies who buy from JS Wrights and then put there own touch on the grading system

PedalsMcgrew · « **Reply #9 on:** January 24, 2013, 11:00:02 AM »

I think this discussion raises more questions than answers! Do I believe what the retailer tells me? Of course not! They want to sell you a bat and that motivation will always be foremost in their minds. Do I believe what the makers tell me? No! For the same reasons!

The argument about grading on performance is a complete non starter. There is no way you can tell how a bat is going to perform so how can you grade by it? Grading on performance is what people tell you in order to sell more lower grade bats for more money. Don't fall for it!

Bruce · « **Reply #10 on:** January 24, 2013, 11:19:09 AM »

Quote from: johnnyw on January 24, 2013, 10:53:03 AM

GN use there own willow so they grade it from stratch unlike other companies who buy from JS Wrights and then put there own touch on the grading system

Oh ok, didn't know that.

But you can see what I mean, I would guess that GN are grading on performance then aesthetics.

Vitas Cricket · « **Reply #11 on:** January 24, 2013, 11:21:31 AM »

Quote from: PedalsMcgrew on January 24, 2013, 11:00:02 AM

I think this discussion raises more questions than answers! Do I believe what the retailer tells me? Of course not! They want to sell you a bat and that motivation will always be foremost in their minds. Do I believe what the makers tell me? No! For the same reasons!

The argument about grading on performance is a complete non starter. There is no way you can tell how a bat is going to perform so how can you grade by it? Grading on performance is what people tell you in order to sell more lower grade bats for more money. Don't fall for it!

I always consider myself as an advisory first, a salesman second. Some bats/brands make more money for us than others, but I don't lead customers straight over to them without even offering any other products as I suspect many cowboys do.

I think most people appreciate that someone trying to sell you something is going to do their best to convince you that what they have to offer is the best.

What infuriates me here is that even the biggest companies are lying, no other way of putting it. A grade 1 Slazenger V100 Pro simply doesn't exist.

trypewriter · « **Reply #12 on:** January 24, 2013, 11:25:58 AM »

Another interesting topic! Obviously there is quite a difference between off the shelf and custom.
One thing that I have noticed on here, is that when guys have visited the maker, and with his help selected a cleft (largely following plenty of mallet work) the bat that is eventually produced is rarely blemish free, and might not be top grade on looks. However, the customer is largely satisfied, as he has been involved in the selection process etc. and has picked his blade mainly on performance with looks coming second. - How would the bat be graded?
Apart from this, I kind of think that the whole business of grading is a bit skewed.
For example, if a manufacturer PURELY grades on performance, who is going to buy a g3 or lower bat? Surely everyone wants a bat that will 'go'?
Overall I think it is safer to grade on pure cosmetics - especially as the eventual performance of a bat can be open to negotiation for quite some time. Even when buying from the cleft stage, it is potential performance that is tested not actual.

PedalsMcgrew · « **Reply #13 on:** January 24, 2013, 11:52:21 AM »

Quote from: Vitas Cricket on January 24, 2013, 11:21:31 AM

I always consider myself as an advisory first, a salesman second. Some bats/brands make more money for us than others, but I don't lead customers straight over to them without even offering any other products as I suspect many cowboys do.

I think most people appreciate that someone trying to sell you something is going to do their best to convince you that what they have to offer is the best.

What infuriates me here is that even the biggest companies are lying, no other way of putting it. A grade 1 Slazenger V100 Pro simply doesn't exist.

Agreed and sadly that reflects very badly on the industry as a whole! The good guys end up being tarred with the same brush.

03jaworf · « **Reply #14 on:** January 24, 2013, 10:06:32 PM »

Feel a bit naive really, when buying a new bat I'd expect an established an popular retailer to be displaying the correct info and given the large discrepancies between the advertised grade and the actual grade of willow this cannot just be an honest mistake??

Author Topic: Willow grades, do you trust your retailer? (Read 5245 times)

Vitas Cricket

Willow grades, do you trust your retailer?

i12breakfree

Re: Willow grades, do you trust your retailer?

ammo

Re: Willow grades, do you trust your retailer?

Old boy

Re: Willow grades, do you trust your retailer?

FvanN

Re: Willow grades, do you trust your retailer?

Six Sixes Cricket

Re: Willow grades, do you trust your retailer?

ItsJustCricket

Re: Willow grades, do you trust your retailer?

Bruce

Re: Willow grades, do you trust your retailer?

johnnyw

Re: Willow grades, do you trust your retailer?

PedalsMcgrew

Re: Willow grades, do you trust your retailer?

Bruce

Re: Willow grades, do you trust your retailer?

Vitas Cricket

Re: Willow grades, do you trust your retailer?

trypewriter

Re: Willow grades, do you trust your retailer?

PedalsMcgrew

Re: Willow grades, do you trust your retailer?

03jaworf

Re: Willow grades, do you trust your retailer?