Shane Warne - Where is Australian Cricket at (Part 1)
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Manormanic

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Re: Shane Warne - Where is Australian Cricket at (Part 1)
« Reply #15 on: January 30, 2013, 04:35:55 PM »

C'mon mate, you can't take that seriously. They have to talk up the Big Bash because it's their job and ratings on the line.

in normal circumstances I'd agree, but the line was repeated in off air/private surrounds...
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: Shane Warne - Where is Australian Cricket at (Part 1)
« Reply #16 on: January 30, 2013, 04:45:25 PM »

I try not to take anything serious that commentators say about the 'quality' of any domestic competition. They are paid to be there and paid to 'sell' it. These guys couldn't be heard slating it otherwise not only would they be out of a job (as TV, sponsors pay them and they wouldn't be happy) but they'd also end up never potentially getting another.

Yes the Big Bash wasn't the best quality but then if people are being honest are any of the T20 actually that good? Even the 'famed' IPL with all it's money is over ran with oldies looking for a pay day and local indians who are tonk.

I personally think that there should be less international games (mainly limit the T20 and ODI's played) and maybe look to only have 4 test series per year (so 2 winter, 2 summer). Then the 'international' players would be free to play domestic cricket and so improve the quality of their home leagues, oh and that might attract more people too :)

Plus, aussie/NZ internationals could come play in the UK and vise versa. Again strengthening both domestic leagues and hopefully improving crowds and the quality. Just a thought. My point earlier about England needing to also look at their set up is that it wouldn't be the first time for teams at the top to take their eye off the ball and then in 4 or 5 years (so when basically all your current crop are past it) end up in a similar situation where you have no real quality around. Warner, Watson.. very good players but are they really top line test players, seems the jury is out.
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Manormanic

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Re: Shane Warne - Where is Australian Cricket at (Part 1)
« Reply #17 on: January 30, 2013, 10:15:08 PM »

but the Aussies will want their lads to play here without reciprocating...
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aussiejake

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Re: Shane Warne - Where is Australian Cricket at (Part 1)
« Reply #18 on: January 30, 2013, 10:19:05 PM »

David Hussey, Shaun Marsh, George Bailey......


Are they the future of Australian cricket?

Joe Burns Averages 42 in fc, 38 in list A and 31 in t20, they are good all round stats I'd say.

Huss has been dropped now. Marsh is only 29 and yes, I believe he has a future in ODI's and T20. Bailey's a decent cricketer too, and has batted well in ODI's.

Burns has played 23, 11 and 9 matches respectively. The guy needs another season with an average of 45+ before being selected for anything.

are Nathan Lyon, Phil Hughes and Ed Cowan the future of Australian cricket?  Is Shane "I'll average 38 thanks mate, but I insist on opening and refuse to bowl" Watson the future of Australian cricket? ;)

Yes, yes, possibly and yes.
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Manormanic

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Re: Shane Warne - Where is Australian Cricket at (Part 1)
« Reply #19 on: January 30, 2013, 10:24:46 PM »

     Yes, yes, possibly and yes.

ah, you're banned worded then...
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The_Bird

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Re: Shane Warne - Where is Australian Cricket at (Part 1)
« Reply #20 on: January 30, 2013, 10:31:39 PM »

Burns has looked far more accomplished than most run of the mill Aussie players, Marsh is like Bopara, bosses it in domestic looks like a child at international level. Im sure shane warne is talking about proper test match cricket as well. Which one of these odi players will replace Mike Hussey?
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fros23

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Re: Shane Warne - Where is Australian Cricket at (Part 1)
« Reply #21 on: January 30, 2013, 10:49:13 PM »

After growing up watching the Aussies dominate for the best part of 20 years I can't say I'm upset to see them struggle now.  The difference in quality of their test side now to the one 10 years ago is massive.  Apart from Clarke you could argue that none of the others would get in the touring squad let alone the final XI 10 years ago.
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: Shane Warne - Where is Australian Cricket at (Part 1)
« Reply #22 on: January 30, 2013, 10:55:50 PM »

After growing up watching the Aussies dominate for the best part of 20 years I can't say I'm upset to see them struggle now.  The difference in quality of their test side now to the one 10 years ago is massive.  Apart from Clarke you could argue that none of the others would get in the touring squad let alone the final XI 10 years ago.

Yep. I think the hard thing for us/them to know though is why?? Why have they not produced the players of similar quality as yesteryear when facilities are better, coaching is better blah blah blah. Considering the talent they had that didn't even make it into the test side regularly  (Hodge, Lehmann etc). It's what I think England need to be doing now, cash in on the success and popularity that winning games brings by developing and strengthening the game. 2005 ashes brought thousands of people into the game, they need to build on that and really make the game strong for years to come. Develop systems in place ot nurture the true talent in the country and not just hte kids rich mums and dads can afford to cart everywhere or pay coaching. If I use my experience of National youth level Tennis that's exactly what happened, the rich mums and dads got hteir kids to county/national squads purely because they were pushy and willing to pay. Even when there were far better players available.

One to think about, not sure the ECB for me is doing enough to really promote cricket int he country and attract more people to the game.. not just kids though, I mean attracting the 18 to 30 yr olds too. Kids stuff is all fine but how many clubs have millions of under 13/15/17's then lose 95% of them because either the one or two 'stars' have nicked all the batting/bowling or because there is no regular slot for them in league games at weekends. I'd venture a lot of them are lost due to that.
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Manormanic

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Re: Shane Warne - Where is Australian Cricket at (Part 1)
« Reply #23 on: January 31, 2013, 09:09:58 AM »

After growing up watching the Aussies dominate for the best part of 20 years I can't say I'm upset to see them struggle now.  The difference in quality of their test side now to the one 10 years ago is massive.  Apart from Clarke you could argue that none of the others would get in the touring squad let alone the final XI 10 years ago.

I doubt some of them would even have made it in to State sides during the golden age of Australian cricket!
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ajmw89

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Re: Shane Warne - Where is Australian Cricket at (Part 1)
« Reply #24 on: January 31, 2013, 09:37:47 AM »

Kids stuff is all fine but how many clubs have millions of under 13/15/17's then lose 95% of them because either the one or two 'stars' have nicked all the batting/bowling or because there is no regular slot for them in league games at weekends. I'd venture a lot of them are lost due to that.

There is a lot of that in this area.  Colts cricket is a case of "unless you are good, your dad picks the team or you are best mates with the superstar, you don't get a game.  If you do get a game, you bat 9/10/11, don't bowl and field fine leg to fine leg."

ajmw89

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Re: Shane Warne - Where is Australian Cricket at (Part 1)
« Reply #25 on: January 31, 2013, 09:46:14 AM »

There is a lot of that in this area.  Colts cricket is a case of "unless you are good, your dad picks the team or you are best mates with the superstar, you don't get a game.  If you do get a game, you bat 9/10/11, don't bowl and field fine leg to fine leg."

To add to this, a lot of the kids that don't get a game in age group/colts cricket end up helping fill the side on a sunday.  By the time the "superstar" kids get to play at adult level, they look like a fish out of water compared to the other kids who've only played adult cricket due to limited chances at colts level

uknsaunders

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Re: Shane Warne - Where is Australian Cricket at (Part 1)
« Reply #26 on: January 31, 2013, 09:53:27 AM »

let me get this right, Damien Martyn as a selector? This is the same guy who told Jimmy Anderson to punch Michael Clarke?

Michael Bevan as a batting coach, he technique was as flawed as Phil Hughes for test match cricket! While coaching isn't the same as playing, think I'd rather have Thorpe or Gooch coaching me than Bevan. Hopefully Warne meant only for ODI/T20 cricket.
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Buzz

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Re: Shane Warne - Where is Australian Cricket at (Part 1)
« Reply #27 on: January 31, 2013, 10:35:45 AM »

Rotation leaves no-nonsense Shane Warne in a spin
Mike Atherton Sports Columnist of the Year
Last updated at 12:01AM, January 31 2013

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/sport/columnists/mikeatherton/article3673166.ece

Shane Warne, the old rabble-rouser, has been causing mischief again. He is not happy: not happy with the state of Australian cricket and not happy with his recent fine in the Big Bash League. Take your pick as to which one has prompted an outpouring of constructive criticism on his website, designed to put a few noses out of joint and to put Australian cricket back on the right track.

In short, his blueprint for success might be condensed as: get the present lot out and get my mates in. Out go Mickey Arthur, the coach, John Inverarity, the chairman of selectors, and Pat Howard, the rugby man now in overall charge. In come Stephen Fleming as coach, cited by Warne as the best opposition captain he played against, Darren Lehmann as assistant coach, Rod Marsh as chairman of selectors and Mark Taylor as the supremo, or, as Warne calls him, “the boss man”. Then there’s Ian Chappell, the biggest influence on Warne’s career, as a kind of guru figure, a sounding board, an éminence grise — call him what you will.

“All the above people are cricket people, not rugby, tennis or from any other sporting code,” Warne wrote in a clear dig at Howard. “They all understand the game of cricket, they have lived and breathed the game for a long time and most importantly have the best interests of Australian cricket at heart, along with being super passionate and above all, they just love the game.”

I am sure Fleming would be interested to learn that he has Australian cricket’s best interests at heart. Actually, I am being flippant. Behind the headlines, there is both a heartfelt plea here from someone who cherishes the success he had with the team and has some serious concerns about the direction in which Australian cricket is heading. Warne worries most of all about selection and the principle of rest and rotation that he, as an old-fashioned type who played through thick and thin, injury and tiredness, has no truck with.

There is no mention of the problems caused by the BBL, which Warne promotes fiercely, and in which he plays, but then we can’t have everything.

“Cricket is a simple game . . . pick your best team and stick with it in all forms, then the players get used to playing together and being with one another on tour, you get to know the person,” Warne wrote. “Too much chopping and changing leads to insecurity, players then start to look out for themselves and over their shoulder, this breeds selfishness.

“It’s also why rotation and resting players will never work. I believe the players should be united, take ownership of this; it’s a very powerful and strong message to send to Cricket Australia if the players’ message is, ‘I do not want to be rested or rotated;

I want to play every game.’ ”

What is interesting about Warne’s no-nonsense blueprint is that in many areas it runs exactly counter to the direction England are taking. The Argus Review, upon which much of Australia’s present thinking rests (and into which Taylor, among others, had a big input) was based in no small measure on England’s system, which has brought them Ashes success at Australia’s expense, and that Warne wants dismantled. Copying English cricket is bad for the soul, clearly.

Whereas Warne wants a key figure in charge, a former Australia captain as the supremo (Taylor), England have a former player of no great international standing (Hugh Morris). Whereas Warne wants a coaching staff made up of former Australia greats (Mike Hussey and Merv Hughes fulfil the Warne criteria for batting and bowling coaches), England have a former Australian state player, David Saker, as part of theirs. Whereas Warne wants only cricket people involved, England have a couple of former schoolteachers, Richard Halsall, the fielding coach, and Nathan Leamon, the numbers man, as key men in their set-up, and a trainer who comes from a rugby background.

Whereas Warne calls for the coach not to be a selector, nobody has a greater influence than Andy Flower on England’s selection. And whereas Warne wants no rotation, England, in response to the demands of the fixture list, are rotating like never before, so much so that trying to follow the teams selected for the latest round of Tests, one-day internationals and Twenty20s is headache-inducing.

With Ashley Giles in charge of limited-overs cricket and the news that Graham Thorpe will replace Graham Gooch as one-day batting coach, it is clear that rotation for England is not confined to the playing staff alone.

Warne’s blueprint is backward-looking, which is not to say it is wrong, but it runs counter to just about everything England are doing right now. When it comes to cricket, Warne is touchingly traditional, almost sentimental in his views. He remembers all too clearly the great days in the Australia dressing room, but perhaps forgets that there were some all-time great players in there as well.

“It is time to go back to basics,” he writes, as if that will be enough to replace the 1,271 wickets taken by himself and Glenn McGrath. There is “room and a place for scientific research and current technology, which can help learn about an opponent, but not instead of using your cricket brain, together they can work hand in hand. Technology can help in recovery, but so can sleep and a commonsense approach to recovery. You cannot reinvent the wheel in cricket, if a player wants to become a better slip fielder, catch more balls, want to get better at bowling a yorker — practise bowling.”

For Flower, science and technology is right at the heart of his coaching philosophy. The nerve centre at Loughborough that analyses statistics forms a critical part of the direction in which he is trying to take England, as do those in his backroom staff who are not from a cricketing background.

Flower’s coaching philosophy, in which he tries to take players out of their comfort zone by getting them to think beyond cricket’s narrow boundaries, is more akin to that of John Buchanan, the former Australia coach now in New Zealand, whom Warne despised.

The fascinating thing about Warne’s outburst is that he is as close as anyone to Michael Clarke, the Australia captain. Did he sound out Clarke beforehand? Does any of this suggest that Clarke is deeply unhappy with the present set-up? It is difficult to believe that Warne’s concerns have not come, even in some small way, from Clarke. I would like to be a fly on the wall at Clarke’s next media briefing, when he will be put inevitably in an uncomfortable position.

Although there is little chance of Warne’s blueprint being adopted, it would be wonderful if it was because the next two Ashes series would then represent not only a clash between the oldest rivals in the game, but also a clash of coaching philosophies as well: old against new; traditional against modern; a beer and chat in the dressing room after play, against the ice bath and computer brigade.

Here’s hoping.
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