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[Jogetnz]

Not a cloud in the sky, weather certainly won't play a part today.

[fros23]

As much as I want him to score runs for England when it matters (something he's not achieved up to now)  there's a part of me that wants him to do so horrendously he never plays again!

1st test of the series vs South Africa , comes in at 117-3 and scores 199 did that matter?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/296909.html

2nd test vs India 2nd innings England trail by 67, comes in at 6-1 and scores 159 did that matter?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/474473.html

4th test vs India 2nd innings comes in at 94-3 and scores a Hundred with Trott to secure the series, did that matter?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/565809.html

2nd test vs Pakistan comes in at 107-3 after they score 462 top scores with 115 to ensure 1st innings parity, did that matter?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/226350.html

1st test vs Sri Lanka, scores 103 to take England past Sri Lanka's score who are then bowled out on a rain sodden final day, did that matter?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/474463.html

3rd test vs South Africa 2nd innings top scores with 78 to help England draw the game, did that matter?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/387572.html

1st test vs Australia top scores in the first innings after coming in at 125-4 before running out of partners, did that matter?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/387572.html

5th test vs Australia top scores in the first innings in the match that England regained the Ashes, did that matter?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/345974.html

[WalkingWicket37]

Okay point taken, he's made 8 meaningful contributions in 144 innings, my mistake...

How many of his centuries has he scored without somebody else bringing theirs up 1st?

[Nickauger]

Who would you pick, that you can guarantee will score runs! And I can guarantee you that England would not have got to 1 in the world if No-one from 1-4 had got a century before Bell did.

[WalkingWicket37]

Who would you pick, that you can guarantee will score runs! And I can guarantee you that England would not have got to 1 in the world if No-one from 1-4 had got a century before Bell did.

You can't guarantee anyone will score runs, but you can almost guarantee Bell will crack under pressure

[Nickauger]

1st test of the series vs South Africa , comes in at 117-3 and scores 199 did that matter?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/296909.html

2nd test vs India 2nd innings England trail by 67, comes in at 6-1 and scores 159 did that matter?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/474473.html

4th test vs India 2nd innings comes in at 94-3 and scores a Hundred with Trott to secure the series, did that matter?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/565809.html

2nd test vs Pakistan comes in at 107-3 after they score 462 top scores with 115 to ensure 1st innings parity, did that matter?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/226350.html

1st test vs Sri Lanka, scores 103 to take England past Sri Lanka's score who are then bowled out on a rain sodden final day, did that matter?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/474463.html

3rd test vs South Africa 2nd innings top scores with 78 to help England draw the game, did that matter?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/387572.html

1st test vs Australia top scores in the first innings after coming in at 125-4 before running out of partners, did that matter?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/387572.html

5th test vs Australia top scores in the first innings in the match that England regained the Ashes, did that matter?
http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci/engine/match/345974.html

But mate, all that proves is that Bell can score runs. Any batsman can score runs, but can any batsman score 100 when every other batsman makes ducks? Thats the only way Bell can be seen as any good, is if Bell scores 100 and England score 100. Maybe I should play for England, I once scored 104 in a total of 122ao

[WalkingWicket37]

Well this could go on for hours, I'm going to leave it there, I have my opinion and you have stats to prove me wrong haha

[Bulldog Cricket]

Agree, without KP England have 2 players that score runs on a regular basis when the team are under the pump. Cook and Trott are the only 2 "chips down" batman. The others are good batsman when things are going well for the team.

I know England wont want to move Prior up the order but he is currently looking a much better bet than Bell and Bairstow.

[Nickauger]

I reckon there are only as many occasions that KP has done it as Bell has. Don't think he's dug England out of a hole that many times

[ppccopener]

Nothing like a good bell debate to wake up the forum!
Look at it from another angle,tonight if root and bairstow,or root especially,gets us out of the hole we have helped to dig(negative cricket)
How much will Root's stock rise with the England management?
He's been tracked and ear marked for a regular spot for a while...

[fros23]

Okay point taken, he's made 8 meaningful contributions in 144 innings, my mistake...

How many of his centuries has he scored without somebody else bringing theirs up 1st?

Does it make a difference if someone had scored 99 before him or 100? does that 1 run change a Bell innings from being easy to acceptable? What about if it was 93 or 84?

Has I have said before Bell has spent a large chunk of his career coming in behind Strauss, Cook and KP, three of Englands top six hundred makers of all time.  There is a fair chance then that someone will have scored a hundred before him with those 3 in the team.

In answer to your question I have counted 4 instances of Bell reaching three figures before somone else does, incidently that is the same number as Gilchrist.  Does that mean Gilchrist is only capeable when he has got runs on the board?

I presume you also feel that Compton hasn't achieved anything as both of his hundreds came after someone else had scored one and considering he opens the batting surely he should be getting there first?

If you are going to judge Bell by this irrelevant statistic you have to apply it to everyone else.

[Bulldog Cricket]

I reckon there are only as many occasions that KP has done it as Bell has. Don't think he's dug England out of a hole that many times

He did win England the ashes in 2005 for the first time in over 20 years with his hundred at the oval so that is good enough for me.

[FattusCattus]

We're going to save it!

My left testicle is tingling, and that normally preceeds a good thing happening, so I think we'll save it - Prior and Root the heroes.

Mark my words - you can bank on Brucie!

[procricket]

Nothing like a good bell debate to wake up the forum!
Look at it from another angle,tonight if root and bairstow,or root especially,gets us out of the hole we have helped to dig(negative cricket)
How much will Root's stock rise with the England management?
He's been tracked and ear marked for a regular spot for a while...

I going to go on record say root is not as good as people say and I doubt he ever will be...

I could be very wrong but doubt it

[WalkingWicket37]

If you are going to judge Bell by this irrelevant statistic you have to apply it to everyone else.

Irrelevant statistics it is then, drop Bell for KP when he returns, move Steve Finn up to number 3 where his average is higher than Trott's, everyone else moves down a place in the batting order, problem solved 

And I had already said I was going to leave this, I have my opinion and you have stats to prove me wrong. Lets agree to disagree and end the discussion here