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[Twelfth Man]

One for the County/Warwickshire followers...

Bumble is convinced that Woakes has more of a chance being more of a batsman than a bowler?
Is it just me thinking that this is just not right... Bumble is saying how he should be asking to bat top 5 for Warwickshire and then look to get into the England squad at 6/7 and 4th choice seamer.

Thoughts?

[19reading87]

He's good enough to be batting up there.

As a Warwickshire lad and Woakes only being a a year younger than me I know a lot of people who played age group stuff with him. Apparently he never really stood out of the crowd until about 17 then just came into his own. He's always been a bowler who can bat however! Seems his batting has come on leaps and bounds tho. Bumble knows what he's on about.

I'd expect him to bat above Javid on this innings

[Manormanic]

I can see where Bumble is coming from but think his argument relies upon a whole lot of what ifs.

Okay, I reckon Woakes is good enough to bat in the top six in County cricket.  I also reckon he's good enough to open the bowling there.

If he went on to test level?  At best he'd be a change seamer, and ideally second change, so for him to be a regular test pick, he'd need to be one of four seamer, either in a spin free attack (unlikely) or as opart of a five man bowling line up.

Will this happen?  A lot of people prefer a five man line up, figuring that it gives greater potential variety and insurance against poor form or injuries, though the counter argument is true that the fifth bowler rarely if ever wins you the game.

[Twelfth Man]

That's what I was trying to get on to. I don't believe he fits in the current England side nor is he good enough yet to do the job Bumble said. How many bowlers are ahead of Woakes in the seamers options as well before he would come in?

[Manormanic]

I suspect he is probably behind Anderson, Broad, Bresnan, Finn and if fit, Tremlett, competing with Onions for the next space.

He is undoubtedly a better batsman than all of the ones named above, even Bressie.  But if we were picking five bowlers with four seamers, I wonder if the selectors might prefer to give Stokes, who is a better bat, a go?

[Twelfth Man]

I like that thought process. If you're going with a 5 man attack with three main seamers then you could possibly give the extra spot to somebody like Stokes who is the more competent with the bat but can still give you more of an option with the ball than the likes of Trott etc!

[Buzz]

with the above selections, Woakes' cause would be helped if there was a left arm quick in the mix. The reality is if you have 3 right arm quicks and a spinner, I don't see Woakes being the missing link to winning games.

I do think he is a fantastic player though.

[Manormanic]

Willey, Topley and Mills might come into the mix in a couple of years or so, but for the time being, I can't really see Ryan Sidebottom coming outta retirement...

[Twelfth Man]

Mills needs to be a bit more accurate and he'll be well on his way into the England Lions at least.

[19reading87]

Some may say Woakes is the best all rounder in the country... Would anybody disagree?

[Manormanic]

Depends how you define being the best all rounder really - I would say that if you were looking for someone equally strong in both departments then you'd take Woakes over Rikki Clarke and Adil Rashid marginally.  If you were looking at the overall MVP, I'd say Bresnan probably shades it - he's not as good with teh bat but better with the ball - and that Stokes and possibly Shiv Thakor (in the longer term) come into consideration.

[Buzz]

Rikki Clarke has the additional bonus of being the best grabber in the country currently, which I think is one of the reasons he is being pulled back to the England set up where there is a derth of slip catchers since we lost Strauss and Collingwood

[Twelfth Man]

Clarke also came into the conversation in the studio at lunch. They are already raving about Somerset's Overton with Lloyd saying watch out he'll be on tour with England to Australia?!

[Manormanic]

Clarke will probably not mke it back to Test level, but I'm probably not alone in thinking that in the hypothetical world where he was given a shot, England would not end up regretting it.

Overton looks decent.  He won't be going to Australia mind.

[Tumo]

Clarke will probably not mke it back to Test level, but I'm probably not alone in thinking that in the hypothetical world where he was given a shot, England would not end up regretting it.

Overton looks decent.  He won't be going to Australia mind.

Certainly not if he keels over with a side strain like I could see him doing at the moment... Clarke has been in sterling form over the past couple of years, and as was mentioned is one of the best slippers in the country (in an excellent slip cordon with Chopra, Westwood et al.) !