Quality against Commitment!
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nudgemaster

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Quality against Commitment!
« on: June 07, 2013, 07:25:49 AM »

Hi All

At the moment I have a dilemma, we play at a low level and as I have now found myself as the second team captain I have this dilemma.

We have a core of 6 players who you would class as ‘cricketers’ with good ability for the level.

We then have 2 to 3 players wo have shown commitment to the cause in weeks when we have struggled for a team. Then we have 5 or 6 players who wish to chose when they would like to play.

Some do have valid excuses, however they have still spent large percentages of time unavailable.

What are your thoughts on this??
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PedalsMcgrew

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Re: Quality against Commitment!
« Reply #1 on: June 07, 2013, 07:56:56 AM »

You should always pick the guys who show the most commitment first. Every club has these guys, maybe not the most talented but the ones who keep the club going! Always give them first dibs on selection. Cricket requires a certain amount of commitment and they are the ones that are showing it. You'll soon find out how keen the guys who want to pick and choose are if you don't let them pick and choose!

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joeylough

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Re: Quality against Commitment!
« Reply #2 on: June 07, 2013, 08:04:08 AM »

Also if you spend a bit of time with the keen guys they may show signs of improvement.

For example, if they bat at 9 but don't bowl, come in try and smack the living daylights out of the ball then get out for a low score. They actually maybe better with the mentality of coming in at 3 where they have to take there time, then they don't come in swinging.
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nudgemaster

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Re: Quality against Commitment!
« Reply #3 on: June 07, 2013, 08:06:38 AM »

Fair points guys, I do agree its a balancing act.....

other points come into it, work, studies etc.

May thought is the committed guys get first chance. If they fail then squad rotation is implemented!
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ajmw89

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Re: Quality against Commitment!
« Reply #4 on: June 07, 2013, 08:59:18 AM »

I would pick the guys who are nearly always available, but not much good over those who are better but hardly ever available.  The committed guys are the ones that the club revolves around.  If it wasn't for them, you'd struggle to regularly get teams out, so that should be their reward for always being there

Manormanic

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Re: Quality against Commitment!
« Reply #5 on: June 07, 2013, 09:33:21 AM »

Tempered with recognition that, especially at a lower level, you will get guys who are intermittently available and need to make some allowances for their legitimate reasons (eg I would give far more credence to the guy who is open about having to work every third weekend than I would to the guy who constantly blows off mid week with no real hint of a reason offered)
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Nickauger

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Re: Quality against Commitment!
« Reply #6 on: June 07, 2013, 03:54:09 PM »

Don't train, don't play!
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The Palmist

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Re: Quality against Commitment!
« Reply #7 on: June 07, 2013, 07:10:28 PM »

You need to pick the guys who are available most of the time so the team can get to know each other and learn to work as a unit. We had a situation when a committed youngster turned up when we were down a player and soon before the match one of the "stars" turned up as well as his appointment was cancelled.

Our coach wanted to play the star and sit the youngster but we had to take a stance and we chose to go with the youngster.
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charlie15

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Re: Quality against Commitment!
« Reply #8 on: June 07, 2013, 07:18:53 PM »

I believe that this came up last season on here.  As one of those who is always available and does a lot for the club, despite a lack of talent I firmly believe you need to pick those who are available all the time as they are the lifeblood of the club.  However there are times like must win games when you need to put the strongest team out, those like me should understand the reasons behind this.
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no1northernbloke

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Re: Quality against Commitment!
« Reply #9 on: June 07, 2013, 08:03:32 PM »

Don't train, don't play!
Heard this so often in both cricket and football. Great in theory, along with fail three times on the trot and you're dropped. Problem is people know who the matchwinners are and they get picked week in and week out. It ain't right but that's how it is.

One week for my 30th I take a week off and go to London to celebrate. Get dropped the next week due to lack of commitment and for the skipper to.make a point despite having scored more league runs than anyone else. Score a tonne in the twos an  the first team get rolled.

It's also well and good making stands but if the team gets relegated everyone remembers the captain that took them down, but very rarely the reasons why.

Pick the best team you can for league cricket from the available players. It  up to your persuasive skills as captain to make them available more often. Sunday cricket is about giving people a game
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kennym66

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Re: Quality against Commitment!
« Reply #10 on: June 07, 2013, 08:12:12 PM »

As someone who has just started playing at an advanced age I would say committed players.

As if you annoy the committed but less able players by dropping them every time a star wants to play they will find another club to play for. It does not matter what quality you have if you have to play with 8 players left for a match.

I play for a third team and the issue has not really come up yet as it is more about getting 11 players with a mix of youth and older players. So far we have had a couple of games with a good mix and won, one game with only 3 available adults and lost. The worst was when we had 8 players, me included although I had knackered my arm and should not have been playing I did not drop out of the team on Saturday morning. Thankfully the weather came to our rescue and the game was cancelled. That is what I see as commitment. The Captain thanked me for making myself available despite the injury and not letting the side down. So far I have always been in the starting 11 despite not scoring many runs. I am grateful for the chance to play. :)
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LMQ21

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Re: Quality against Commitment!
« Reply #11 on: June 07, 2013, 10:30:13 PM »

I think it depends on your club situation and the ethos of your club. If your club is aiming to win games, promotion, cups and be successful then obviously they want to attract the best and most talented players who can win games. However, if it is a 2nd or 3rd team then surely a committed team with a good ethos is a good way to go which is where players can develop and potentially move on to the 1st team, therefore, developing COMMITTED AND QUALITY players.

Our first team is (obviously) filled with the most talented and best players at the club who are high quality players! However, these players lack commitment in both training and blow off games without any problem, whether it be holidays, concerts, gigs, work or family issues. These players will be back in the 1st XI, regardless of their commitment however these are the players that can win games.

Our second team is based around very committed players, although they do lack "game winning" players, there is a team feel about the 2nd XI, however, in my opinion there are players in the 3rd XI who should be playing in the 2nd's, however it seems to be the captains preference but also in the knowledge that the players he has are committed and can be relied upon

Our third team is a mix of older players with some colts and average cricket players. Our third team appears to lack quality and commitment with the captain struggling to get eleven players each weekend, often having to rely on weak or non cricketing players.

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uknsaunders

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Re: Quality against Commitment!
« Reply #12 on: June 07, 2013, 10:56:11 PM »

Always a tricky one, particularly if you following each avenue to it's extreme:-

1. Play those are are available - end up with 11 men but lose repeatedly (if I understand the ability correctly). Nobody enjoys losing and good players tend to get fed up with carrying others, ultimately they move on.

2. Play your strongest XI - you win a few more but lose the goodwill of your committed players. You end up with 8/9 players each week and nobody enjoys that either.

Short term you might be able to manage expectations but over the longer term you need to change things. I would have a chat with your better cricketers and get their thoughts. It might be they have a couple of mates who play and avoid the situations above. Alternatively, maybe the 1st XI Captain can take a couple of weaker players and share the pain. Some frank conversations with stronger absent players might work, or some reality checks for the weaker players might path the way for a better mix of players. As captain it's up to you to get your players on board with any changes you make.
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fatbats

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Re: Quality against Commitment!
« Reply #13 on: June 08, 2013, 07:51:38 AM »

It's tricky but the guys that turn up week in week out are priceless and the guys who keep clubs going so they always get priority with me

ProCricketer1982

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Re: Quality against Commitment!
« Reply #14 on: June 08, 2013, 08:50:46 AM »

I would always pick players who are available and do things for the club over the guy that just turns up when he wants and only turns up saturdays. However, my experience so far (all 3 seasons of it) is that clubs pretty much do the opposite and basically pick the same old same old guys regardless. So if player A is a 'first teamer' and been away for 2 weeks they'll happily just let him just right back in, even if the replacement has been scoring runs/taking wickets etc.

I just don't think clubs in general give a crap about players, it's all about league levels, standings and winning. Unfortunately I've seen a few sides that 'could' be great clubs not do very well because they develop a reputation as bad man managers (for want of a better word) and have lost some talented youngsters due to messing them about rather than thinking long term. Oh and one of hte worst things in cricket is when clubs get a clique of players, whether that me 'mates' or just undroppable (they may say they are not but they are) players who pretty much no matter what are in the side. Yes they maybe the better players but if they don't perform and someone else is then drop them. It at least proves everyone is being treated fairly.
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