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Author Topic: Buttler to leave Somerset...  (Read 4543 times)

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Manormanic

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Re: Buttler to leave Somerset...
« Reply #30 on: October 02, 2013, 10:45:54 AM »

Agree 100% apart from the bit about neither being particularly good or 'vintage'. Kieswetter is in the top 5 of keepers in the country IMBO, alongside Prior, Read, Foster, Davies.

"vintage" as in wine or whisky - I was referring to their ages!!!!  ;)

Though I'll pick you up on that, as I don't think Bedwetter is anywhere near the top five keepers in the country - as well as the four you mention he would also be behind Mark Wallace, Michael Bates and Andy Hodd, at a similar level to guys like Wheater, Jones, Mustard etc.
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Nickauger

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Re: Buttler to leave Somerset...
« Reply #31 on: October 02, 2013, 10:50:17 AM »

Yeah I knew you would, while those guys are undoubtedly better keepers, I should have said keeper batsmen, but then that rather drops Foster, and then my argument loses all credibility! We do seem to be blessed with useful keeper batsmen in this country, although I would quibble that Mustard is up there anymore.

This is what the forum's been missing lately, some decent debate!
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Manormanic

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Re: Buttler to leave Somerset...
« Reply #32 on: October 02, 2013, 11:23:05 AM »

Yeah, keeper/batsmen is a more realistic category nowadays - after all, how many "pure" keepers are there out there in the Shires anymore?  Foster is probably still the best (though in fairness he's a decent enough number six or seven in county cricket) and Read a close second (though again a more than competant batsman).  In terms of guys who are less talented with teh willow, the example of Bates at Hampshire is indicative of the overall trend - the kid is an exceptional keeper but his batting is more of the number 8/9 ilk and lo, he was sidelined when Adam Wheater - a lesser keeper but much more competant batsman - was brought in from Essex.  You see it with Bairstow, Buttler and Davies - and did with Prior - players who were batsmen first and for whom keeping was something they learnt on the job - and will see it again with the likes of Ben Foakes, Ben Brown etc.

Indeed, this appears to be mirrored in club cricket - a generation of guys approaching 50 are leaving the game who were specialist wicketkeepers, often the kind who batted in the tail, and are being replaced by batsmen who happen to wear gloves in the field.
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Nickauger

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Re: Buttler to leave Somerset...
« Reply #33 on: October 02, 2013, 12:06:21 PM »

But then on the flip side, you are also seeing 11 excellent fielders on a team now, and I know its a very specialist role, but if you have the basic ABC's and ability to learn, then it shouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility to train a good standard keeper! Read and Foster IMO are freaks however, would be interesting to see whether they'd get a look in now that England are looking for a lower order batsman keeper!
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Manormanic

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Re: Buttler to leave Somerset...
« Reply #34 on: October 02, 2013, 12:37:16 PM »

No, they're not - when I first started watching county cricket in the late 80s, most county sides had a keeper of that standard or at least close to it - Colin Metson at Glamorgan, Jack Russell, Jack Richards, Bruce French, Warren Hegg etc.

As for whether Read and Foster might get a look in - big fat no there.  I think England like Buttler for what he ofers as a "finisher" and especially with teh way that jibes with the selection of other batsmen available to them, who are predominantly top order players.  If that demographic shifted over time, they'd quickly go back to a top order keeper bat...
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Nickauger

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Re: Buttler to leave Somerset...
« Reply #35 on: October 02, 2013, 12:49:53 PM »

No, they're not - when I first started watching county cricket in the late 80s, most county sides had a keeper of that standard or at least close to it - Colin Metson at Glamorgan, Jack Russell, Jack Richards, Bruce French, Warren Hegg etc.

As for whether Read and Foster might get a look in - big fat no there.  I think England like Buttler for what he ofers as a "finisher" and especially with teh way that jibes with the selection of other batsmen available to them, who are predominantly top order players.  If that demographic shifted over time, they'd quickly go back to a top order keeper bat...

No they're not what?
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mr_wickets

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Re: Buttler to leave Somerset...
« Reply #36 on: October 02, 2013, 12:56:45 PM »

But then on the flip side, you are also seeing 11 excellent fielders on a team now, and I know its a very specialist role, but if you have the basic ABC's and ability to learn, then it shouldn't be beyond the realms of possibility to train a good standard keeper! Read and Foster IMO are freaks however, would be interesting to see whether they'd get a look in now that England are looking for a lower order batsman keeper!

Not sure too many bowlers would agree with you on this one. Nothing worse than seeing a missed chance a quality keeper would have got when there's a decent fielder behind the sticks. Also a quality keeper saves at least 10-20 runs and innings and creates chances by being able to stand up the medium pacers.
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Manormanic

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Re: Buttler to leave Somerset...
« Reply #37 on: October 02, 2013, 12:57:33 PM »

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Nickauger

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Re: Buttler to leave Somerset...
« Reply #38 on: October 02, 2013, 01:19:44 PM »

Ah, gotcha! :)
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Nickauger

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Re: Buttler to leave Somerset...
« Reply #39 on: October 02, 2013, 01:20:32 PM »

Not sure too many bowlers would agree with you on this one. Nothing worse than seeing a missed chance a quality keeper would have got when there's a decent fielder behind the sticks. Also a quality keeper saves at least 10-20 runs and innings and creates chances by being able to stand up the medium pacers.

I don't even know what point I'm trying to argue any more lol!
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