Dumb Question
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CrickFreak

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Dumb Question
« on: October 07, 2013, 08:11:00 PM »

As the subject says - a dumb question, but cant find an answer to it.  :D
I read here and other places that asian bats ping better because they are lightly pressed. and break faster for the same reason.
Question - Is it true? if yes, why? I thought harder the playing surface, the better the ping and thats why bat needs knocking before its used.
I understand knocking the edges can press the fibers which can then withstand the impact and prevent damage. but why knock the sweet spot?
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Chad

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Re: Dumb Question
« Reply #1 on: October 07, 2013, 09:10:52 PM »

As the subject says - a dumb question, but cant find an answer to it.  :D
I read here and other places that asian bats ping better because they are lightly pressed. and break faster for the same reason.
Question - Is it true? if yes, why? I thought harder the playing surface, the better the ping and thats why bat needs knocking before its used.
I understand knocking the edges can press the fibers which can then withstand the impact and prevent damage. but why knock the sweet spot?

Not too dumb a question. ;) To be honest, I think Asian bats tend to play well because they are slightly drier, because the climate there is drier. I wouldn't say they play better than bats made in England though! You get some duds and some very special bats from both parts of the world. Also, I think that the talk of Asian bats being lighter pressed isn't really always the case, some are pressed pretty hard! I find that most Asian bats just tend to go really well from ball one, that might be why folk say they ping better.

You should knock the sweetspot as that also prevents damage to the sweetspot. I generally knock mine in lightly around that area, and finish it off with some throwdowns. I'm also convinced that if you don't knock in the middle properly, there's an increased chance of delamination. :-[
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CrickFreak

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Re: Dumb Question
« Reply #2 on: October 07, 2013, 10:09:15 PM »

So the notion that light pressed bats are better is false.

This also raises another question - if someone orders a custom bat and ask for hard pressed bat than normal will get a bat which will perform from day one?

I doubt if the pros spend hrs knocking their bat like us.

 
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Vitas Cricket

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Re: Dumb Question
« Reply #3 on: October 07, 2013, 10:37:35 PM »

Such a complex area, there are so many talking points. I'm far from the best person to comment but I'll throw my thoughts in.

Each individual piece of wood has an optimum pressing point, the perfect amount to get the best performance out of the bat it is made into. 'Ping' is generated from the natural elasticity in the willow fibres, rebounding the ball back from whence it came. Pressing helps to 'toughen up' the wood making it more resilient, whilst maintaining that springy pingy loveliness we all crave. There are some interesting side points here though. A quick example is butterfly stain. A butterfly stain is much harder and less elastic than normal grain structure, and if you have ever used a bat with a butterfly, you"ll know the ball rockets off this harder area.

A harder bat may take a while to get going, but should perform just as well once it's been used for a while. Not a fan Of the term 'opening up' as the true meaning of this is when the grains start to break apart and eventually the face slides off, the sign of a bat at the peak of its powers.
Generally Laver and Wood bats are considered quite hard, mine certainly felt it at first, but the more I use it, the better it gets. Are bats pressed harder for better durability? Who knows.

Asian (especially Pakistani) made bats are drier, definitely. They aren't necessarily softer. The generally perform well instantly but may not last as long due to the dry/brittleness.

Knocking in is important to protect the wood from the damage a new ball can cause when batting. The most vulnerable areas are the edges and toe, but the middle Can be damaged by a prominent seam too. A scuff sheet is handy to help protect the middle of the bat if you don't wish to knock it in. Knocking in also helps to get a harder bat going, see my previous point about the more you use one, the better it gets.

Notice I use words like 'May' a lot, because there are no hard and fast rules here. Willow is a natural product.

Marc28

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Re: Dumb Question
« Reply #4 on: October 07, 2013, 10:47:16 PM »

Such a complex area, there are so many talking points. I'm far from the best person to comment but I'll throw my thoughts in.

Each individual piece of wood has an optimum pressing point, the perfect amount to get the best performance out of the bat it is made into. 'Ping' is generated from the natural elasticity in the willow fibres, rebounding the ball back from whence it came. Pressing helps to 'toughen up' the wood making it more resilient, whilst maintaining that springy pingy loveliness we all crave. There are some interesting side points here though. A quick example is butterfly stain. A butterfly stain is much harder and less elastic than normal grain structure, and if you have ever used a bat with a butterfly, you"ll know the ball rockets off this harder area.

A harder bat may take a while to get going, but should perform just as well once it's been used for a while. Not a fan Of the term 'opening up' as the true meaning of this is when the grains start to break apart and eventually the face slides off, the sign of a bat at the peak of its powers.
Generally Laver and Wood bats are considered quite hard, mine certainly felt it at first, but the more I use it, the better it gets. Are bats pressed harder for better durability? Who knows.

Asian (especially Pakistani) made bats are drier, definitely. They aren't necessarily softer. The generally perform well instantly but may not last as long due to the dry/brittleness.

Knocking in is important to protect the wood from the damage a new ball can cause when batting. The most vulnerable areas are the edges and toe, but the middle Can be damaged by a prominent seam too. A scuff sheet is handy to help protect the middle of the bat if you don't wish to knock it in. Knocking in also helps to get a harder bat going, see my previous point about the more you use one, the better it gets.

Notice I use words like 'May' a lot, because there are no hard and fast rules here. Willow is a natural product.

This may sound abit silly but i remember Sachin using a bat that looked truly awful very dark and almost black in the centre is that what you mean by the face slipping as he still used it to great effect and in fact scored his 100th 100 with it against South Africa i believe.
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Vitas Cricket

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Re: Dumb Question
« Reply #5 on: October 07, 2013, 11:40:41 PM »

Can't really find a good enough picture to tell. But a bat that is really opened up will resemble crazy paving. First of all you may notice it looks like the grains are separating from each other somewhat, then cracks will start to run parallel alongside the grains and over time will begin to also occur at 90 degrees to the grain, causing the crazy paving effect. Further use of the bat (which will really be performing well at this stage, again this is all generalisation, wood is wood and nothing is guaranteed) will see these cracks begin to affect the structure of the bat itself.

 It's like a mass delamination I suppose, the top few millimetres of the face of the bat will just slide off.

Of course, most bats don't ever get to this point, as people stop using them long before this would happen, either through breaking the handle/toe or from buying/using a new/different bat.
« Last Edit: October 07, 2013, 11:45:15 PM by Vitas Cricket »
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Aswani Cricket

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Re: Dumb Question
« Reply #6 on: October 07, 2013, 11:46:31 PM »

Something like this?



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Vitas Cricket

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Re: Dumb Question
« Reply #7 on: October 07, 2013, 11:51:57 PM »

Something like this?




That would be the image I have been searching for :)

Kept getting a lot of baseball bats on google image, even when I specified 'cricket'

Aswani Cricket

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Re: Dumb Question
« Reply #8 on: October 07, 2013, 11:55:02 PM »

I remembered I'd seen this on a bat care guide, so I searched for "cricket bat care guide" :)

I had a CA bat once and the middle has almost disintegrated, yet still performed very very well
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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Dumb Question
« Reply #9 on: July 13, 2022, 02:53:02 PM »

Good thread.
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Kulli

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Re: Dumb Question
« Reply #10 on: July 13, 2022, 06:52:12 PM »

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Bats_Entertainment

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Re: Dumb Question
« Reply #11 on: July 13, 2022, 07:44:48 PM »

Crawley, Pope and Foakes were all using visibly 'opened up' Gray Nics bats during the recent Test series. At least two have moved on now though, I think.
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Re: Dumb Question
« Reply #12 on: July 13, 2022, 07:48:31 PM »

* No 'were they really Gray Nics?' stuff, please!
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Kulli

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Re: Dumb Question
« Reply #13 on: July 13, 2022, 08:36:22 PM »

To be fair the GN lad was making bats at headingly that weren’t for sale and they were all monsters. Salt had a giant butterfly that I was very keen to make off with.
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jimmy23

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Re: Dumb Question
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2022, 08:47:00 PM »

Salt was also using a gray Nics with SS edge stamps in the recent Holland games
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