M & H CK22
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Author Topic: M & H CK22  (Read 13810 times)

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Blazer

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Re: M & H CK22
« Reply #30 on: November 28, 2013, 08:14:08 PM »

looks like M&H need to work on their finishing for bats worth that amount.
Very true! , Just didn't want to offend anybody before you stated that. They need to have a short session with Mr Aldred for lessons on how to finish a bat.
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ItsJustCricket

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Re: M & H CK22
« Reply #31 on: November 28, 2013, 08:16:18 PM »

The finishing is part of the charm - how can a bat be perfectly finished if it's been oiled and knocked in by hand beforehand? For me, this proves that M&H bats really are ready to play, and as far as I'm aware, they are the only manufacturer to offer this service, and do it by hand.

mattw

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Re: M & H CK22
« Reply #32 on: November 28, 2013, 08:25:26 PM »

The finishing is part of the charm - how can a bat be perfectly finished if it's been oiled and knocked in by hand beforehand? For me, this proves that M&H bats really are ready to play, and as far as I'm aware, they are the only manufacturer to offer this service, and do it by hand.

knocking in and oiling 'by hand' is completely different to skipping on grades of sandpaper which is the issue with the finishing, you can see the teeth marks left by low grade sandpaper - nothing to do with a slight dent or anything like that.
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Number 11

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Re: M & H CK22
« Reply #33 on: November 28, 2013, 09:50:46 PM »

Well, the Original is £200 and needs knocking in so you're paying £100 more for a ready to play Solution and £200 for Amplus and Master. That makes knocking in quite expensive, wonder what their hourly rate is  ???
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jamesisapayne

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Re: M & H CK22
« Reply #34 on: November 28, 2013, 11:02:51 PM »

Well, the Original is £200 and needs knocking in so you're paying £100 more for a ready to play Solution and £200 for Amplus and Master. That makes knocking in quite expensive, wonder what their hourly rate is  ???

Seeing as they claim to be able to knock a bat in fully in 30-45 mins I'd say quite a good rate!

I like M&H bats a lot and playing in the Somerset league see my fair share. I've never seen a bad one, but I can't for the life of me understand why a bat can cost 425. When I think it's nearly half a thousand pounds it makes it seem even more mind boggling.
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smokem

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Re: M & H CK22
« Reply #35 on: November 29, 2013, 02:34:11 AM »

This finishing issue needs to be put in perspective... The Amplus was a refurb and I agree the finishing is very average. One would expect better work from M&H on a refurb.

But this is not the finishing on a newly purchased bat - ie the CK22 (which looks fine to me). Hard to tell from the pics but Rew162 can be the judge of that. He can also comment on the finishing of the Amplus when he first bought it.
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smokem

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Re: M & H CK22
« Reply #36 on: November 29, 2013, 02:40:33 AM »

Well, the Original is £200 and needs knocking in so you're paying £100 more for a ready to play Solution and £200 for Amplus and Master. That makes knocking in quite expensive, wonder what their hourly rate is  ???
Original is Grade 2 (£200) and the Solution is Grade 1 (£300) . The Solution Mark 2 is Grade 2 and £250. So it's more like £50... Amplus and Master are meant to be oversized clefts (and maybe G1+ ?) but I might be wrong.
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ItsJustCricket

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Re: M & H CK22
« Reply #37 on: November 29, 2013, 09:32:07 AM »

Yep, the Original, Solution and Harlequin bats all cost less because they are each made from standard clefts, which apparently costs M&H less to source than the (oversized) clefts that they use to make the Master, CK22, Amplus and, formerly, Distinction...

GarrettJ

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Re: M & H CK22
« Reply #38 on: November 29, 2013, 09:46:49 AM »

I thought Oversized referred to the spine height of the raw cleft.

A normal raw cleft is 75mm high where as an oversized is 85mm so im not sure how any bat other than a Distinction or a H4L Tempo can be described as being made from an oversized cleft. Usually 10mm is lost in finishing and pressing so anything higher than 65mm spine on a bat is very impressive.

There are now differences in the edge sizes of the way clefts are cut to be able to get these 50mm edges but they never have a finished spine height over 65mm.
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smokem

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Re: M & H CK22
« Reply #39 on: November 29, 2013, 09:54:38 AM »

Sorry I meant low density clefts... I take it these are harder to come by and attract a premium?
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ItsJustCricket

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Re: M & H CK22
« Reply #40 on: November 29, 2013, 09:56:04 AM »

I guess it depends on which willow merchant you go to.  Clearly the M&H one are charging them more for the clefts that make those bats.  I don't see why they would lie about that, just to increase a profit margin?!

GarrettJ

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Re: M & H CK22
« Reply #41 on: November 29, 2013, 10:10:23 AM »

they are a lot rarer so the laws of supply and demand mean they price is increased (new my economics degree would help me at some point!)
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jamesisapayne

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Re: M & H CK22
« Reply #42 on: November 29, 2013, 10:20:53 AM »

Original is Grade 2 (£200) and the Solution is Grade 1 (£300) . The Solution Mark 2 is Grade 2 and £250. So it's more like £50... Amplus and Master are meant to be oversized clefts (and maybe G1+ ?) but I might be wrong.

The Original is supposed to be grade 1 with a grade 2 option available for £50 less.

Also, some of the Amplus and Distinction bats I've seen are definitely not G1+ Some of them have been G2-3 visually, but I guess the pool of top grade willow in oversize cleft size is severely limited.
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Chad

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Re: M & H CK22
« Reply #43 on: November 29, 2013, 10:30:23 AM »

With regards to oversized clefts, wasn't the Pod meant to be made from an oversized cleft? In fact, I'm almost 100% sure that it was advertised like that when I first looked up Salix. (A few years back) When I got my hands on one, I was pretty surprised, as it was smaller than a few of the bats I had at the time, and is probably one of the smaller bats I have now! (Besides the Tour maybe) I do think that the definition of 'oversized' has changed over the years with change in demands, so it was probably oversized back then, but standard now!

D7bow had a Laver that had a ridiculous spine and edge size, and my L&W PB has a spine height of 65-68mm. I think it all depends on the batmaker's way of doing things. If you're getting a machine to do everything, you can probably get the highest spine possible from a cleft very consistently, although if you do it by hand, there has to be that leeway for a mistake. I think the Amplus will probably be around 63-65mm spines. (Based on a look at my friend's ones)

Back on topic, that CK22 is a lovely looking bat, I really didn't like it when I first saw it, (Thought it looked really concaved) but it doesn't seem to be too concaved, and it is massive! The stickers have grown on me as well. Maybe it's made from the lighter OS clefts, hence the hefty price tag. The most important thing is that you love the bat, and from what you've mentioned, I think you'll get on with it fine. ;) I do agree that the finishing should be better - I know a few forum members who finish bats much better than that! (Better than a lot of other brands too) Surely with the sale of a few bats, they can invest in some better equipment for that - a good finish compliments the bat as a whole! (Especially for a premium brand)
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Rew162

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Re: M & H CK22
« Reply #44 on: November 29, 2013, 02:26:44 PM »

This finishing issue needs to be put in perspective... The Amplus was a refurb and I agree the finishing is very average. One would expect better work from M&H on a refurb.

But this is not the finishing on a newly purchased bat - ie the CK22 (which looks fine to me). Hard to tell from the pics but Rew162 can be the judge of that. He can also comment on the finishing of the Amplus when he first bought it.

I was really shocked about all the comments regarding the finish of the bat, I just could not believe people were on about my bat! So I had a look at the pictures again, and I can see what people are saying but to put it in some perspective these photos were taken in low light using a camera phone and I think the resolution and perhaps some camera shake had not helped the photos they were also taken very close to the bat especially the toe on shots. I can honestly say in the flesh that the CK22 is finished to the same standard as all other M&H bats that I have seen, a standard which I am more than happy with. There could be better finished bats available e.g. Aldred, Affinity etc... but having never held one it is difficult for me to confirm.  I hope this allays any concerns over the quality of the finish on this bat.

As for referb of the Amplus I agree that it is not the smoothest finish but it was in a state (had a lot of use last year :D) but I didn't think to take a before picture sadly. I only included this as a comparison between the 2 bats out of interest for people as I had it to hand.  I am not going to send the bat back to M&H it is hardly going to affect its performance, perhaps if I lived closer then I possibly would drop it in for a bit of a better finish, it is not the same standard as the CK22 bat or when I fist got it back in 2012 but I am OK with what they have otherwise done to the bat.

On to the price, I can understand that there are many comments about this and is it worth the money (and not in everyone's price range). I would say to put it in some perspective that it is not the only bat in this price bracket (£370+) in fact most of the larger companies have bats that are in this range or more. It is also only £25 more than last year's top of the range M&H bat (The Master) so hardly a big difference in the cost. Also having only bought 3 bats in the last 4 years at a cost of £925 I am not unhappy with how much I have spent for the quality of these bats. I am sure others on here have spent more than this over the same period on bats - sure they may have got many more bats but I am happy with the amount I have spent and the bats I have received over this time.

I know someone also asked about the toe and yes to confirm that the CK22 has a much squarer toe that the Amplus.

Finally on the performance of the bat (the most important part for me) I had a hit with it last night with an old ball, the response was superb and right up with the best couple of bats I have ever used so I am very pleased and it still needs more work to be match ready so hopefully it will improve even more! The only downside is that I just can't wait for the start of the season now so I can start using the CK22 in anger!
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