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[uknsaunders]

Cook has lost 3 tosses. England have bowled first 3 times. Seamers haven't been maintaining pressure and Swann bowls Day 1. 2nd Innings England have a huge deficit thanks to rubbish batting and it's still day 3. Sorry to point out the obvious but a spinner needs a bit more to work with. Monty has an advantage to the right handers but not much if you bowl days 1-3 mainly and the oppo are under no pressure whatsoever.

Lyon benefited from crap batting under pressure, though he did seem to get more out of the pitch 1st innings at the Gabba.

Finger firmly pointing at the batsman and possibly at our seamers. Losing the toss doesn't help - #cooksfault

[Mtown Don]

Wouldn't disagree with much of that but I think you would also have to concede that Swann's bowling has looked unimaginative for a bowler of his perceived class (ditto for Jimmy). However, it's difficult to conjure something from nothing without batsmen making unforced errors as you have already commented with Lyon.

Swann has contained well at times. Nasser's 'analysis' comparing the two spinners (admittedly more in terms of how both sets of batsmen played them than how they had bowled) made me laugh though; Lyon apparently had England's batsmen mesmerised while Australia had taken the attack to Swann, even though he was going at 2s while they tried to mount a lead until Watson went berserk! In that sense, I agree that the seamers have not done the perception of his performance any favours


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[pacman75cricket]

Think coaches maybe missed a trick and should have worked on gettiing overspin as this was what caused the problems for us not the amount of sidespin?

[Mtown Don]

As I'm far from an expert on spin bowling, could anyone more informed please give an opinion on whether Warne's analysis earlier in the series highlighting Lyon's superior seam position on release holds much weight? Might it account for the lack of 'bite' evident in Swann's efforts so far?


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[Alvaro]

Maybe his elbow hasn't healed properly?

[Manormanic]

I'm not sure about the seam position per se, but it has been clear throughout that Swann was looking for ripping turn and Lyon bowling for check spin and bounce.  As such, their game plans have been very different. 

The toss is an interesting point here - three tosses in a row and all of them were good ones to win as they allowed the Australian batsmen to avoid the scoreboard pressure which routinely killed them in India and England.  I don't think its as easy as to say that that advantage gifted Australia the series - I think England would have looked tired and short of firepower in either event - but it has definitely magnified the perception of difference between the teams.  Swann is not the only bowler affected -Tremlett in the first game and Bresnan in this would have benefitted from batsmen looking for opportunities that were not there - and it has been difficult for some of the English batsmen too.

[uknsaunders]

I'm sure he knows more about it than most (including me) . From what I have read from other great spinners, dropping the ball onto the deck and the amount of revolutions count for a lot as well.

My original point, as a spinner at club level, is it's awfully hard work when the oppo are racing along as 100-0 off 20 compared to being 50-5. If teams have to block for dear life or chase the game from a bad situation as a spinner you are more likely to pick up wickets.

[FattusCattus]

Bit contentious maybe, but from the bits I've seen so far, the best Swann bowled was in tandem with Monty.

[TangoWhiskey]

Cooks fault is being a bit harsh. Tossing a coin, as much as we'd hate to admit it, is completely 50/50. Cook may be losing the toss, but it's hardly his fault that he is unlucky!

[Manormanic]

in anything other than English conditions that has tended to be the way - Panesar is a specialist at blocking up an end for overs, sessions even days on end and that allows Swann to come into the attack at times of his choosing and unfurl his bag of tricks. 

[uknsaunders]

Maybe his elbow hasn't healed properly?

rumours persist about him retiring in the next 18 months for that reason. I think he's 34 now but given the longevity of spinners surely another 5 years isn't impossible. Ajmal is 36 btw and showing no signs of slowing up.

[uknsaunders]

Cooks fault is being a bit harsh. Tossing a coin, as much as we'd hate to admit it, is completely 50/50. Cook may be losing the toss, but it's hardly his fault that he is unlucky!

maybe but it has a huge bearing on any spinner taking wickets. It doesn't excuse Swann from criticism but he would of been very much in the game bowling last in any of those tests.

[ProCricketer1982]

rumours persist about him retiring in the next 18 months for that reason. I think he's 34 now but given the longevity of spinners surely another 5 years isn't impossible. Ajmal is 36 btw and showing no signs of slowing up.

It's constantly said he won't be around for 2015, I'd imagine his elbow is (No Swearing Please). Cooks back I'd also a concern if that's persistsnt.

Tbh, bowlers haven't performed as they should BUT they've had little rest in each game, been hampered by drops, mis stumpings etc and of course when the batsmen collapse and surrender the initiative so regularly eventually they will just mentally not be 'up for it'

Like everything in sport and life, it's easy to be good when all goes well .. Much harder when all is falling around you. WARNE IN 2005 showed the mental resolve when all around him failed

[tim2000s]

It's constantly said he won't be around for 2015, I'd imagine his elbow is (No Swearing Please). Cooks back I'd also a concern if that's persistsnt.

Tbh, bowlers haven't performed as they should BUT they've had little rest in each game, been hampered by drops, mis stumpings etc and of course when the batsmen collapse and surrender the initiative so regularly eventually they will just mentally not be 'up for it'

Like everything in sport and life, it's easy to be good when all goes well .. Much harder when all is falling around you. WARNE IN 2005 showed the mental resolve when all around him failed

Woah there with complaints about the bowlers... While they've managed to reduce the batting to <150 in the first innings for around , we've then had no idea how to prize nuggety wickets out, bowlers or captain.

Then we've scored next to nothing, giving the bowlers half a day to recover before asking them to go out and do it all again, but slightly more knackered, with nothing to bowl at...

I think we really should be looking at the batsmen here...

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[Dan W]

Cooks fault is being a bit harsh. Tossing a coin, as much as we'd hate to admit it, is completely 50/50. Cook may be losing the toss, but it's hardly his fault that he is unlucky!

Don't agree. He's been consistently defensive with his calls this tour and ignores the weather, team and conditions when making the heads/tails shout. He's been a bit of a flat track bully in that sense - he owned the coin toss in the Summer on the home grounds, though as soon as he steps foot overseas he loses his supposed coin management talent.


Tbh I love him as a batsman, though I think if we'd have a better man doing the coin toss we wouldn't be in this sorry state.