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Author Topic: Cook - who would take over?  (Read 47938 times)

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FattusCattus

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Re: Cook - who would take over?
« Reply #60 on: December 29, 2013, 05:42:34 PM »

Well I must admit, as much as I am criticising Cook, I'd rather he stayed in the team and captained.

It will be interesting to see what the next two series bring.
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Bulldog Cricket

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Re: Cook - who would take over?
« Reply #61 on: December 29, 2013, 05:42:58 PM »

Because the media have to talk about and blame someone. Look at the people in the media who are talking about Cook, and then look at their records as captains ???.

Next summer when they play and beat India at home and he is scoring loads of runs everyone will say he is superb.

In this series it has been the batsman that have let the team down. The captain has very little or no control over the way they bat. If only he had won the toss and the batsman have been able to score 400+ then it might have been different. Its impossible to be attacking and innovative when you are defending 170 every game.

Plus he has been let down by the senior players and Trott having to go home.
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Blank Bats

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Re: Cook - who would take over?
« Reply #62 on: December 29, 2013, 05:50:09 PM »

I agree our batting has been the critical factor in us being humiliated in this series. However I have also thought our bowling lacks any great threat. I really think we need to inject some pace into the lineup. I'd really like to see Finn and Tremlett back in the fold bowling some serious wheels.
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FattusCattus

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Re: Cook - who would take over?
« Reply #63 on: December 29, 2013, 05:50:56 PM »

Agreed - he's been a man alone, and it kind of showed on his face last night when the catches were going down. Didn't see too many senior players patting him on the bum either.

Would you change nothing K?
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Blank Bats

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Re: Cook - who would take over?
« Reply #64 on: December 29, 2013, 05:54:05 PM »

Do we think Jos Butler will ever be donning the gloves as test keeper?

I'd love to see him coming in at 7 as I think he really does have that X factor and is a really class act.....
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Bulldog Cricket

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Re: Cook - who would take over?
« Reply #65 on: December 29, 2013, 06:04:07 PM »

Agreed - he's been a man alone, and it kind of showed on his face last night when the catches were going down. Didn't see too many senior players patting him on the bum either.

Would you change nothing K?

Yes Bruce I would have played Rankin in Perth and maybe Finn as well. I would bin Bresnan as I don't think he offers anything now.

If I could pick the side for the last test I would go for.
Cook
Carbery
Bell
KP
Ballance
Root
Prior
Broad
Anderson
Rankin
Finn

And get those 4 fast bowlers to shove it right up their nostrils........every ball.
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Re: Cook - who would take over?
« Reply #66 on: December 29, 2013, 06:04:56 PM »

Do we think Jos Butler will ever be donning the gloves as test keeper?

I'd love to see him coming in at 7 as I think he really does have that X factor and is a really class act.....

I agree, absolute star in the making. I would love to see him playing all forms next summer.
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WalkingWicket37

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Re: Cook - who would take over?
« Reply #67 on: December 29, 2013, 06:12:44 PM »

I agree, absolute star in the making. I would love to see him playing all forms next summer.
If he puts in a good display behind the stumps in the Championship I can see him getting into the test squad, don't think he's ready to play test cricket just yet, but being around the squad can only do him good (as long as we don't have another Bairstow situation where he carries the drinks and gets one game every 9 months).
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The_Bird

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Re: Cook - who would take over?
« Reply #68 on: December 29, 2013, 06:15:35 PM »

Stokes has to keep his place and be given a good run in the team. His hundred is the only positive out of the whole series.
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Re: Cook - who would take over?
« Reply #69 on: December 29, 2013, 06:22:02 PM »

Stokes has to keep his place and be given a good run in the team. His hundred is the only positive out of the whole series.

Yes sorry forgot about Stokes (not sure what that says ?) Yes Stokes in for Finn or Ballance ?
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Manormanic

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Re: Cook - who would take over?
« Reply #70 on: December 29, 2013, 06:48:49 PM »

I'm as bad as the next man but players like Robson or Chopra who has seen them live in a county championship game

As a paid up member at Yorkshire & Middlesex I've probably seen most everyone in Division One play at least twice this year, and have caught the odd Division 2 game as well.  I think that probably makes me the odd one out (or, as my wife so succinctly put it, a sad (No Swearing Please)).
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joeljonno

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Re: Cook - who would take over?
« Reply #71 on: December 29, 2013, 06:56:57 PM »

I can't see wholesale changes, maybe just one big one.

Either Cook steps down, or Flower goes, or a backroom staffing change, or a retirement or two.

I bet with Swanny gone and Prior dropped, every spinner and keeper who has intentions of playing for England will be striving hard over the next few months to get better and have a good start in the 2014 season.
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smilley792

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Re: Cook - who would take over?
« Reply #72 on: December 29, 2013, 07:08:20 PM »

Do we think Jos Butler will ever be donning the gloves as test keeper?

I'd love to see him coming in at 7 as I think he really does have that X factor and is a really class act.....


Well I like him, but I wonder why Somerset chose kieswetter over him, was it because they a) do to believe he's food enough or b) believ peeve he's good enough, and would rather lose him now, than lies now and butler to England in the long term?

I suspect b)


Can't seem to find the inns and outs of it though, but butler was signed up for 2 bbl games only as he had England commitments, but this week has extended his stay in the bbl. has something happened?
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Re: Cook - who would take over?
« Reply #73 on: December 29, 2013, 07:14:18 PM »

As a paid up member at Yorkshire & Middlesex I've probably seen most everyone in Division One play at least twice this year, and have caught the odd Division 2 game as well.  I think that probably makes me the odd one out (or, as my wife so succinctly put it, a sad (No Swearing Please)).

Your job as a civil servent must be giving you more than the usual 30 days a year off then bud..

Flexi time is it....
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Manormanic

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Re: Cook - who would take over?
« Reply #74 on: December 29, 2013, 07:18:11 PM »

Okay, a few - probably a lot - of thoughts arising from this thread, because I don't want to clog it up by replying to lots of individual posts.

Firstly, on the captaincy - I think people fail to appreciate that the England job is completely different to the role of any other international skipper, even for the cricket mad population of India and, to a lesser extent, Australia.  Why? Because it never ends - the fact that the English Season is out of synch with the seasons of the other nine Test playing nations means that the England skipper will be required for a four month home run every year and then one or more likely two stints of a couple of months on away tours.  All the time, he will be barracked by the worlds most hostile press - yes, we seem to still like to kick our own in a way that no other country would countenance.

That means that it is a difficult job, and as I have stated elsewhere, it has been taken on by a series of successful batsmen who have each had a period of grace of about six months before the pressure caught up with their games - it happened to Hussain, Vaughan and Strauss and is now happening to Cook (if the dropped catches are not evidence then think how he used to wit out attacks that bowled full and tight to him).  If he skippered like Virgil did, there would be an argument for taking the hit in batting productivity for his leadership qualities, but Cook has never seemed better than a guy given the job because there are limited other options.

I would replace him.  From within the team, options would be Bell (no - too valuable with the bat, too diffident a character), Broad (no - has proved a lack of tactical acumen) and Anderson (actually not a bad choice now that we have Stokes to reduce his burden of overs).  Pietersen would be a credible fourth option, and would actually be my choice were it not for the likely retirement of half the squad that would follow.  All this being the case, it would not be madness to select a skipper from outside the starting XI - it worked for the Yarpies with Smith and the West Indians with Sammy, and for those worried that it smacks of England circa 1988 please bear in mind the sensible logical selection policies that have been put in place since and the level headed - and, lets be  honest, cash heavy, management structure which supports them.

Who?  I said Gale earlier semi jokingly, but actually don't think he would be a terrible call, at least as a stop gap for eighteen months whilst Root gets his had around international cricket and fame.  He can bat, catch, and is a very good captain indeed - and I do not say that as a biased Yorkie, but as someone who was really impressed with his man management skills and ability to think outside the box when he took the job on.  Of the other county skippers:
Too old - Collingwood, Yardy, Chapple, Trescothick, Key, Read, Peters
Nowhere near good enough - Mitchell, Troughton
Foreign - Sarwan, Smith, Rodgers, Madsen, Peterson, Klinger
Not Even Sure he wants to keep the job: Adams

The only one I could argue would be James Foster...who would be a stop gap solution of the shortest kind, even though I would love to see him get the job and to see his skills on the highest stage again.  Someone suggested RHB - I nearly fell off my chair....why would anyone consider a guy of limited talent who presided over the farce of Cocaineshire?  A recipe for disaster akin to asking Jesse Ryder and Andrew Symonds to run your club bar!

Gale is a credible candidate...but as  I said, one raised jokingly.  What I would actually do is as follows (my side to start next Summer):
AN Cook
JE Root
IR Bell
KP Pietersen
MJ Prior (c)
B Stokes
JE Bairstow (w)
S Borthwick/A Rashid
SJ Broad
JM Anderson
B Rankin

(Sorry Bressie!)

Prior has a good cricket brain and can come again as an international, but will struggle to combine three roles - his physical issues with keeping are well known.  But at five, he can be a bulwark of the batting, which is reinforced by having a genuine top order bat at seven with the gloves and a decent bat at eight as well.  Bairstow deserves a good run at the keeper's role - he has not produced as he might in the test arena but has been royally messed around by England, playing so infrequently that he has rarely been able to start a test in any kind of form, and has shown that he can bat at the top level, even if he has not gone on and converted.  Lets take into account that he handled Steyn/Morkel/Philander/Kallis better than anyone and the way he reminded the rest of the England side that Nathan Lyon was a clubbie there to be spanked in the last test.

Someone raised the next names in line - having seen all of them a few times, I would place Robson ahead of Chopra because he has a more classical technique; Chopra is quite hacky with his movements and might be a nick off merchant at the top level.  Taylor does not entirely convince me, though could make it if he was selected at a time when he could bed in against slower attacks, and Balance is a year to eighteen months away from being ready.  Two names less frequently referenced who I think might break through this year are Alex Lees - a young Cook, not only for his lack of variety in shot selection - and Ben Foakes, who is a lovely batsman to watch.
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