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Author Topic: Where do england go from here?  (Read 22477 times)

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alexhilly1492

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Where do england go from here?
« on: January 05, 2014, 02:51:44 AM »

total rebuild, somthing like this:

Cook
robson
bell
root
ballance
stokes
bairstow
borthwick
broad
finn
rankin

or stick with a mix of senior players and youth

cook
carberry
bell
kp
ballance
stokes
prior
bres
broad
anderson
monty
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Gerry SA

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Re: Where do england go from here?
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2014, 03:17:18 AM »

Cook
Root
Bell
Pietersen
Taylor
Stokes
Kieswetter
Broad
Finn
Anderson
Panesar.

Borthwick isn't anyway near Test standard.
Not impressed with Ballance.
Carberry seems a nice chap, but lacks the ability.
Bresnan's been found out.

Finn bowls fast, he can be supplemented in a 5 man attack.

Panesar isn't B.S. Bedi, heck he's not Daniel Vettori, but he's easily the best spinner England have got.

Taylor  impressed me more than Bairstow, Root or Ballance.

If Pietersen retires, then Robson could open(I'm not convinced he's particularly special otherwise he'd a got a game for NSW, and Cook moves into the middle order.   
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Gingerbusiness

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Re: Where do england go from here?
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2014, 03:28:12 AM »

Home. They will go home next. See their wives/families etc.

They will hide from everyone at the Performance centre in Loughborough for a while. Probably with the bowling machine on a nice steady 80mph to get some confidence back.

Then they will have a chat about what went wrong. Where they go from here etc.

I imagine we will see a different team in May. I wouldn't expect too much change.
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iand123

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Re: Where do england go from here?
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2014, 07:48:21 AM »

Home I'd imagine. I bet anyone not involved in the one dayers or t20's must be packed and ready to go on the first plane out of aus.

Wonder if there will be any other retirements between now and the season starting. I guess a lot if it depends on what flower does but regardless of the coach is imagine a few people might be told their time is up
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Buzz

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Re: Where do england go from here?
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2014, 07:53:00 AM »

there are a few things to think about not least that we only have 7 test matched in 2014 then the Aussies are back over in 2015!

we can say with some certainty that for those 7 games this year

cook

bell
kp

stokes
prior

broad
Anderson

are nailed on. this leaves an opener (Root most likely) a number 5 (Ballance most likely) then a quick and a spinner. If Trott is back then he is at 3 and bell at 5.

I would have gone for Finn throughout the Ashes we have just had so he gets the nod for me.
That leaves a spinner. Borthwick isn't a test bowler nor is Rashid. so we are left with, most likely a Treadwell type.

given selectorial past performance, that is what we can expect.

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ammo

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Re: Where do england go from here?
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2014, 08:45:34 AM »

They seriously do need a week or 2 to completely shut down
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trypewriter

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Re: Where do england go from here?
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2014, 09:07:08 AM »

Quite apart from the batting what has cost England has been their inability to press home an advantage in the field. Time and again Australia (as of old) have escaped. I think that saps confidence just as much as lack of runs.
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Alvaro

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Re: Where do england go from here?
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2014, 09:15:24 AM »

The pub, get piddled and tell each other how it is.
Or community service.
Or my second team, they're often short. Can't guarantee a bat or bowl though.
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Johnny

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Re: Where do england go from here?
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2014, 09:18:14 AM »

I look at both teams in the OP and think both look pretty terrible.

The spine the Buzz has outlined masked sense, but it's also that spine that has badly let the team down on this tour.

We need to sort a 3rd seamer out (Maybe Bres can stl do a job with more match fitness under his belt -I'd prefer to see Onions) and a spinner (probably Monty for the foreseeable future)

But at the end of the day it's our top 7 that have let is down. Unfortunately I can't see past any of the players who have played on this tour - it's just a question of whether they can overcome the mental scars of this tour and between them find some sort of collective form.

The cupboard does feel very bare all of a sudden.
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Manormanic

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Re: Where do england go from here?
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2014, 09:39:23 AM »

(I'm not convinced he's particularly special otherwise he'd a got a game for NSW, and Cook moves into the middle order.

Yet further evidence that you don't know your cricketing (No Swearing Please) from your elbow.  Robson would have played plenty for NSW were it not for the fact that he was (effectively) ineligible until this season on account of his refusal to give up his domestic qualified player status in the UK - then this season when the Australia domestic qualification rules were changed specifically to allow for Robson to play for NSW (and after much lobbying from, you guessed it, the NSW authorities) he elected instead to spead the Winter with the England Performance Program.
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Manormanic

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Re: Where do england go from here?
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2014, 09:59:16 AM »

Spent a good few hours last night mulling this over.  There are two answers here - what I would do, and what I think the selectors will do - the two differ mainly on the point of whether Cook should be allowed to continue as Captain (I would, as noted elsewhere, stand him down and give Prior a go, probably without the gloves).

There is, realistically, a spine of six to eight players who will, if there are no more retirements, make up the core of the playing group - Cook, Root, Bell, Pietersen, Stokes, Prior, Broad and Anderson - Root and Prior being the two not nailed on.  Into that group (because it makes more sense to talk about a squad of 14-15 players than it does a single XI, you need to add two more batsmen, a spinner, a second keeper and two or three seam options.

As regards the batsmen, I think Carberry will probably be thanked for his efforts and wished the best in the future, and I doubt that Compton will be considered again (though oddly, having not thought him quite good enough at the time, I now suspect he was quite harshly treated).  Ballance...I've said before I think he is probably a year short of the necessary experience, in part because he has tended to bat too low for Yorkshire, but he may well get one slot, and I suspect the other will go to Sam Robson.  Interestingly, Scyld Berry was writing in the Torygraph this morning to the effect that a group of ECB bigwigs, asked to predict our next Ashes line up, all had Alex Lees, who I recommended yesterday, in their top 3s, so there may be a possibility of him coming in later in the Summer.

Spinner.  England admitted that Borthwick was not up to it when they tossed the ball to KP ahead of him today.  They have clearly seen something that worries them in Panesar, and something that they really don't like about Rashid, and Kerrigan will need to think about how he is going to bowl in Test cricket before he can be elevated to that level again.  That leaves Tredwell, who wouldn't let anyone down but is not good enough to be a long term option, or Rafiq, who played barely half a season last year and needs time to mature.  Who thinks we might go all seam in the start of the year?

Reserve keeper - this slot is up for grabs.  In defence of Bairstow, he has been badly treated by the selectors in regards the amount of time he has spent sitting around between infrequent opportunities.  That said, he may need the confidence that comes with time back at his county and runs on the board, though the reserve options are not great - Buttler never really scores first class runs and is a similarly inexperienced gloveman, and Foakes is even more junior.  If Prior were to be injured, I wonder whether they might give Kieswetter a go?

Seamers - at least here the options are clear.  Finn will come back into the group, and Onions will doubtless be there or thereabouts, though I suspect that Bresnan will become a one day specialist going forward.  On top of that, I would like to see them bring one of Mills and Topley into the squad - the idea of a left armer would give variety and both have at least one part of the puzzle about them.  JAmie Overton could also get an opportunity at some point.
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compstallcc

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Re: Where do england go from here?
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2014, 12:08:29 PM »

said it before ill say it again

A.Cook (C)
J.Root
J.Trott (presuming he feels that he is fine to be playing test cricket again)
KP
I.Bell (VC)
S.Davies (WK)
B.Stokes
C.Woakes
S.Broad
J.Anderson (replaced when time is right)
S.Kerrigan

and if trott isnt ok to be playing cricket ballence comes in at 5 and bell goes to 3. Only spot which im not sure about is woakes however a fc batting average of 40 and fc bowling average of 25 does look promising
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fromthehip

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Re: Where do england go from here?
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2014, 12:12:28 PM »

Chopra to open
And please god not woakes shouldn't be any where near selection
Stokes
Prior
Cook
Bell
Taylor
Broad
Anderson
Mills
Root
And a spinner who knows few around but not good ones
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ProCricketer1982

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Re: Where do england go from here?
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2014, 12:31:12 PM »

I also spent some time thinking and also thought that what I'd do is totally different to selectors as they have no spine (bit like normal management really.. Talk about responsibility but rarely actually make those hard calls!)..

Anyway,  my squad for the next two years would be

KP (capt) - reason is that he still frightens oppos, still the big wicket and tbh, he's still England's match winner. As capt hopefully it'd bring his mind back into it and offer England that different dimension to the selectors and management who are all gutless.
Prior - vice capt.  We have no alternatives currently and i think making him play all county games (championship not crappy 50/20 over!!) will get his confidence back.

Top 3 batsmen

Compton - I'd have him back as he's my 'stand in' but has done better  than carbs and is younger so can last upto 4-5 years if needed.
Cook- hopefully released from the pressure can come back to form. However, he needs to go back to leaving the ball again (not sure if it's confidence or just that he's trying to hard to lead from the front )
Robson - he's my young pretender so get him in the mix, however he should not miss any championship games carrying the drinks etc
Bell - he's my number 3 till he losses it. Trott is gone and won't return to test cricket, if he does he won't be as good.


My 4/5/6 would be

Root, ballance, KP as first choice

Taylor is my reserve


Prior at 7

Then the bowlers (I care not about their batting as that's a bonus not a selection criteria

I'd go for broad, Finn, stokes and monty

Monty - we have no other option and he's the best we have
Finn - he should be withdrawn from ODI and t20 crap for club and country and told to play every county game going


Players I've left out

Anderson - I'd still have him in the squad but would assess his hunger, pace early next season. He's showing signs of age and I'd rather use this as a chance to being the next ones through.
Carberry - the guy seems a quality lad and I think that if he felt safe in his position on the side would play as he does. Or ally but at 33 I'm afraid that you are just too old and given the games you've had you've. Of delivered that big innings.
Trott - for me when he's ready he needs to play county cricket to prove it and find form. Potentially could come in but again by then it'll be 33 ish so not really the future
Rankin - ummm did he bowl 90mph once ?? Wasn't accurate and kept bowling too short. Sorry but at 29 you should be at your peak. Fired.
Tremlett - injuries have taken their toll.. No pace. Fired
Swans retired but I'd have fired him anyway as he wasn't the player he was.
Borthwick - more county cricket needed

Anderson, onions, mills and Overton are the bowlers I'd have in the squad to push the others.


With every player though I wouldn't have them as drinks carriers. I'd rather they played local first class games during the series and have some young buck as 12th man etc. I feel for bairstow as he can't have any confidence after playing nothing for so long.


ODI and t20 I don't care about, I'd rather they had totally different squids to protect the best players from tiredness, long schedules and injury
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procricket

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Re: Where do england go from here?
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2014, 12:35:48 PM »

you would bat Stokes at 8..

No future at 33 tell that to Rodgers
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