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Pietersen

Flower

Both gone

[Buzz]

flower hasn't improved the team over the last 18 months. the cricket has become grim, flower should have foreseen this.

I don't want flower to resign personally, but to say it is him or kp is pathetic.

[Bulldog Cricket]

I agree if he has said it then that is strange.  But if that is what he is thinking then he should just get rid of him. You can't have a player dictating. I'm reading fergi's book and he did it time and time again throughout his career.

[Buzz]

but SAF could just buy someone new.

Eng cricket won't ever again have a player like kp.

[Bulldog Cricket]

Not in his early days he couldn't.

And even at United he got rid of senior players and replaced with home grown players.

[The_Bird]

Ask Man U fans if that is the case.

I completely agree with this but interestingly Moyes has the best win record for a United manager in his first 30 games.

[procricket]

Not in his early days he couldn't.

And even at United he got rid of senior players and replaced with home grown players.

You mean players he bought from other clubs look at the class of 92 how many where Home grown proper home grown not stole for pittance from other clubs...

He was a visionary and he had a staff who new what he was looking for but he never mentions his flops....

Back on topic If it has been said he should go because although KP is a bit septic it seems he still is our best player and for a coach to give a ultimatum it time to have a major reshuffle.

There has been a massive cancer of the team this winter something everything is possibly wrong...

[smilley792]

For me it would be pietersen. As long as he commits long term, and puts full effort in. Then you have to have someone of his talent in the side. I think it would be bar,y not too.


Personally I think flower needs to go  there was signs in the summer series, of issues, which it seems not much were done about with our drubbing.
Plus add the yoyo ings off a very young batsmen, that's then dropped for not performing. I see it as bad player management.
If your gonna ask a youngster to step up, give him a chance. If your gonna be an inpatient sod, then he should have moved pietersen or bell up there. Or did he bottle forcing his stars to change?

[iand123]

Whilst not trying to be-little SAF's achievements he had a very talented youth system ready to replace players in his early days. As mentioned above he also had a transfer budget. Flower has neither of these (yes we have some good youngsters but not good enough to go straight into a side and make them champions in their first season).

If this is true (I'm still skeptical) then for me you have to question flower. We need the best XI players we can get on the pitch. Team spirit and togetherness only ever seems to be an issue in losing sides, winners don't tend to care so much. Remember all the stuff written about the Aussies with Clarke and Watson and the split in the team, who's talking about that now. If flower is really motivated by personal vendetta's like this then white frankly he's not in the right frame of mind for the job.

KP is still one of our best players, like it or not it's true. That won't change no matter how many journos or ex players jump on the bandwagon of hating KP (Phil Tuffnel questioning people for being great players - do me a favour and get back to the jungle mate).

[ppccopener]

Well...they have both committed to move england forward in the last 24hrs...
But this a very un mike selvey like article which makes me think there is something in it
There is a view thats its upto the management to mange players despite some difficulty with awkward individuals
Nasser did this with gough caddick and thorpe
All perceived to be 'difficult'

[Alvaro]

There are plenty of intense southern Africans with a driven intensity and penchant for the same incredibly conservative approach to cricket.

There is only one KP.

[Bruiserboy]

If it was plain for all to see why did everyone think England would win ?

Because Australia really arent that good even though we manage to make them look like world beaters. Many assumed that the management would manage the problems of the summer. It was obvious there were problems in the england performances during last summer and that the victories glossed over them and that we could easily have lost that summer series.

There were plenty of people saying they thought the momentum was with australia going into the winter tour and we were going to find it tough. Our performances got worse and worse every game.

I wouldnt be rushing to get rid of Flower, but based on the premise it was one or the other had to go he would be the one I would chose rather than our most talented batsman

[csnew]

Looks like this story was fib. Flower has denied it.

English print media at it again

[tushar sehgal]

From a neutral perspective it would have to be Flower that goes. KP is a good bat but here is my thought process, players fail and not coaches but looking at the team selection for Ashes and the freedom you feel Cook has (not that he comes across as a great captain but he might prove us all wrong) it looks like it has become too much of Flower's team rather than England or Cook's team, Cook seems to struggle etc etc. also if this is all KP's fault well how much time does he really have left?.....as a coach/director of cricket Flower's job is to manage players and get the best out of them.


P.s. I am on the rum so it might not make sense...now off to make some purchases 

[awp]

There isn't a button for neither so I won't vote 

Same for me, not that you're looking for Aussie input....

It's true that England's cricket hasn't grown and was not sufficient to hold them at the top for very long, and that long term planning is the domain of the coach (among others) but, the performances just witnessed are soley the players fault.  Same for gooch who everyone wants to sack as well, did he instruct batsmen to play dumb shots? (According to boycott, half of the 100 dismissals were gifted to Australia)

Sack KP? Are you blokes serious? There's very few batters in the world like KP, genuine game changer, does need to perhaps show bowlers a bit more respect early in his innings, but sack him? You're nuts....

[tim2000s]

I'm on the neither side too. I think it would be a mistake to get rid of either. We've seen what happens when KP doesn't participate, and as little as some may like it, he was still the highest run scorer in this Ashes series with his 294 runs...

I also don't see a replacement for Flower. As others have said, one poor series shouldn't result in wholesale changes. We should wait and see what happens versus India and Sri Lanka this year.

If we are still seeing problems, then let's take a closer look at all aspects, but until then, I don't think doing without either is a good idea.