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Pietersen

Flower

Both gone

[ajmw89]

Throughout history, the men in suits of the ECB/TCCB/MCC/whatever else they've been called haven't really liked Maverick players like KP/Botham/Flintoff.  They've been tolerated because they're good, but they've used whatever minor slip up they make as a rod to beat them with.  It's a wonder players like that don't turn round and tell them where to shove it at times...  For me, you need the maverick players but you also need the team men to help support them and the coach needs to get the best out of everyone.

Flower isn't getting the best out of everyone anymore, so for me, he goes

[Buzz]

there is a great quote from Duncan Fletcher that you need a composite of team men and mavericks with 8-3 being the optimum split.

At the moment this is part of the problem with the Eng team - without Swann the team is 10-1 (KP being the odd one out) I suspect in time that Stokes will become a bit of a maverick - but for a team to have flair and personality you need more characters. The reason the Eng team isn't really loved is because they are a team of robots, plus KP. Flower and Strauss/Cook have cultivated this with the ECB.

It is worth noting that Flowers doesn't have a great record with bringing in new players successfully into the End team...

[tate035]

For me Flower has to go.

The majority of the feedback I get and hear from within the game is that Kevin has nothing but time for Junior players. Always encouraging and taking time out to help them. Sometimes adults don't get on and I feel that for whatever reason Flower doesn't get on with Kevin.
My point is that whatever personal reasons you have for disliking someone it shouldn't stop the team from trying to achieve No 1 status. Wether or not Kevin batted sensibly in his innings is not important to me in this situation as the same could be pointed at Bell, Cook, Root, Prior and Bairstow.
What I think is important is the way a coach spots his own teams weakness and that of the opposition. I firmly believe that flower has got this immensely WRONG on this trip. I find it hard to support someone who lays the blame at the door of one person (as we are being told by the press) when he should be looking at himself and his coaching staff as to why they got so many things wrong over the last 12 months (i include the home series with south Africa where the bowling to certain top order batsmen was so completely wrong).

Finally, there are many top coaches out there to replace Flowers but NO batsman to replace Kevin

[smilley792]

I see Vaughan has put his 2pence in on the subject.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/0/cricket/25649105

[Manormanic]

Problem is any player of any nationality can be bought and play for any football team, so night quite the correct analogy.

erm, this is the "England" cricket team...

[ijmorgan]

erm, this is the "England" cricket team...

Ok you got me there, in my line of business and being self employed there have been times when i have had maverick staff that i have had to man manage. Did i get on with them not always, but i could see they where an asset to my business which was first and foremost (to me) the key thing. So for me both should stay and just get on with it.

[smilley792]

pietersen named in the provisional 30man squad. all though this will be halved after the Australia tour finishes.

have the board and selector gone with Pieterson? or both flower and Pieterson staying?

or name him in the provisional squad and drop him later. keeps him quiet for now.

[Jason_Yuan]

I would go with Pietersen, one of the best batsman, and flower is just useless ruining a few people career, he really should go

[Nickauger]

I would go with Pietersen, one of the best batsman, and flower is just useless ruining a few people career, he really should go

Really? I'm sure people with far more experience think a little differently. There's only so much that can be done with 11 out of form players. Flower has been amazing for English cricket. Whether it's time to let someone else have a good a different matter entirely, but useless definitely not!

[FattusCattus]

Maybe it's a case that this is always a finite job, and like Fletcher - who was excellent in the beginning - maybe he has taken things as far as his coaching and man-management skills will take him.

It's a pretty intense job, and with new players coming in, perhaps he's lost that level of communiation and ability to make players run through walls for him.

Plenty of respected coaches have had a shelf-life at test level as the whole scene is so full-on now.

[jamielsn15]

I'm of the opinion its not about wholesale changes; England need to play more positive cricket.  They appear to have a good blend of accumulators (Cook, Root, Ballance) and strokeplayers (Bell, KP, Prior, Stokes).  It's all about a state of mind and showing intent, as England did in 2005; we'll score runs at a rate and have top quality bowlers who will take wickets at pace.  Lose the 'attritional' cricket and start taking the game to teams.  Smashing a young Indian team in the summer would go a way to redressing the Ashes embarrassment...

For me, even considering leaving out KP is ridiculous.  You simply have to find a way of involving him.  Having him on the periphery during the Ashes was crazy.  Play to his ego, treat him like a star and he'll win games.  I believe Flower should be retained, if only for the lack of options, but he needs to introduce a new mentality and strategy and needs to find a way of working with KP and fast.

If I had to get rid of 1, it would be Flower.  He can't win games from the balcony.

[MD2812]

Is there a blame culture within the team not helping things either?

I don't know if this is the case, and I haven't read anything into it but I could imagine.

The bowlers blame the batsman for not getting enough runs
The batsman blame other batsman for not building a start/throwing their wicket away etc
Players might blame the lack of preparation against decent opposition before the tour

[finbarr44]

Guys think of all the teams you all played in. Did everyone get on? No we would be mad to think they did. What happened in most of the successful teams you played in? Not a difficult one to answer is it you had a Captain who could get the best out of players in the team and manage the different egos and cliques in the team. Alastair Cook is going to set records for accumulation of test runs for an Englishman that probably will never be beaten is he a Captain in my opinion no, look at every interview he did the same old rubbish every time trying to take positives out of getting absolutely hammered kept saying they hadn't reached their targets it didn't take a great sage to come to that conclusion did it we could all see that from the bloody scores and the smiles on the Aussie faces. Fair play to the Aussies but for goodness sake even they deep down would have expected more competition than we provided them. Cook not a skipper and never will be as a skipper he will be forever scarred by this series. For his own good let him go as skipper.