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Author Topic: England v Sri Lanka series  (Read 34822 times)

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LEACHY48

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Re: England v Sri Lanka series
« Reply #255 on: June 05, 2014, 11:03:18 PM »

merely some of the aforementioned evidence:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/RXWvtHxjfhU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

pause at 0:28, 1:13

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7ZqFdWLmGw

pause at 0:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyIqqfg3Ae4

pause at 0:09 and probably worst of the lost, pause at 0:32
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joeljonno

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Re: England v Sri Lanka series
« Reply #256 on: June 06, 2014, 05:08:51 AM »

So the argument about chucking and whether it is around 'race'.

I will provide James Kirtley as an example.

He was white, he was English, he was banned.
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Sam

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Re: England v Sri Lanka series
« Reply #257 on: June 06, 2014, 05:59:21 AM »

merely some of the aforementioned evidence:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/RXWvtHxjfhU" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

pause at 0:28, 1:13

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O7ZqFdWLmGw

pause at 0:20

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iyIqqfg3Ae4

pause at 0:09 and probably worst of the lost, pause at 0:32

Which shows nothing (can't see the first due to the embed attempt) :D.
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Buzz

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Re: England v Sri Lanka series
« Reply #258 on: June 06, 2014, 06:02:39 AM »

look up Harold Rhodes too.
he was the finest coach I have ever had. he also had a double joined elbow, which meant he had a visable flex at times. his career suffered as a result.

www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/19372.html
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trypewriter

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Re: England v Sri Lanka series
« Reply #259 on: June 06, 2014, 06:55:39 AM »

look up Harold Rhodes too.
he was the finest coach I have ever had. he also had a double joined elbow, which meant he had a visable flex at times. his career suffered as a result.

www.espncricinfo.com/england/content/player/19372.html


A guy that I worked with faced Harold Rhodes in a charity game when he would have been rising 50 and said that he was still uncomfortably brisk off about five paces. Most in the midlands thought that he was treated shamefully.
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Buzz

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Re: England v Sri Lanka series
« Reply #260 on: June 06, 2014, 07:16:03 AM »

A guy that I worked with faced Harold Rhodes in a charity game when he would have been rising 50 and said that he was still uncomfortably brisk off about five paces. Most in the midlands thought that he was treated shamefully.
He was certainly uncomfortably brisk for a 14 year old of 5 paces in his 60's!!
He was also astonishingly accurate and able to bowl the confidence boosting half volley and follow it up with the one that took the edge/middle stump next ball!!

Sorry for the digression - but I attribute most of my cricketing success to the help he gave me as a 14/15 year old.
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trypewriter

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Re: England v Sri Lanka series
« Reply #261 on: June 06, 2014, 07:32:00 AM »

That sort of accuracy was the Derbyshire way at the time, He came in at the end of the Les Jackson Cliff Gladwin era - you might enjoy this Buzz -
http://derbyshirecricket.blogspot.co.uk/2013/11/an-interview-with-harold-rhodes-part-2.html
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'His was a cameo of savage cuts and pulls - the tragedy being that none made contact with the ball.'

Manormanic

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Re: England v Sri Lanka series
« Reply #262 on: June 06, 2014, 08:37:15 AM »

So the argument about chucking and whether it is around 'race'.

I will provide James Kirtley as an example.

He was white, he was English, he was banned.

Maurice Holmes, Geoff Cope, the lad whose name I forget at Gloucestershire.

And none of them had an action half as dodgy as MuchicHuckalot or Senanayanke
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Buzz

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Re: England v Sri Lanka series
« Reply #263 on: June 06, 2014, 08:38:33 AM »

This is from the interview with Harold Rhodes - talking about bowling in the 60's!

The issues over your bowling action are well known and the general consensus appears to be that you were offered up as a scapegoat at a time when there was a crackdown on obvious offenders around the globe?

Without a doubt. The cricket authorities were clamping down on throwers from around the world, all of them having the same thing in common. They all had an open-chested action that 'stopped' as they released the ball from a splay-footed stance. They all had a really quick ball, which was the one that was dangerous, of course. People like Charlie Griffith, Ian Meckiff and Geoff Griffin were called and with good reason when you see the photographs of them in action. With West Indians, Australians and South Africans being called, there was seen to be a need for English cricket to be 'cleaning up' its act and I was the fall guy, if you like.

My action was always side-on, what has always been regarded as the 'classic' style, and to throw from that position would have been impossible. Yet I was called to see a film that had been taken of my action from a mid-on position in the stand and I agreed it didn't look good. Similar films of such great bowlers as Harold Larwood and Ray Lindwall did them no favours either and it was the angle, rather than the action, that was the problem.

I asked the people at Lords to film the man who was regarded as having the best action in the game from the same place, so they filmed Fred Trueman. He looked as if he threw too, which proved my point!

The law at the time I was first no-balled allowed umpires to call bowlers if they felt there was something DIFFERENT about their action and that's why Paul Gibb no-balled me. Yet when George Cochrane, a specialist from Derby Royal Infirmary, proved to them that I had hyper-extension of the elbow – that the arm went past straight - they still didn't clear me. This was in 1961 and it was seven more years before they finally did. It was too little, too late.

In 1965, I was top of the national bowling averages and the media were calling for me to return to the England team. I firmly believe that the people at Lords got umpire Syd Buller to one side and told him that he needed to help them out of a tricky situation and no ball me in the South Africa tour match at Chesterfield.

I knew Syd and we got on pretty well before then, but he was never the same afterwards. Ironically, he umpired in my previous Test match, when I bowled 46 overs! He never saw a thing wrong with my action, nor had he at many other county matches at which he had officiated.

It was all very, very strange and immensely frustrating.

I know that West Indian spinner Sonny Ramadhin was a thrower, but kept his sleeves buttoned to stop people seeing his elbow clearly. Was that never suggested to you as an option?

No it wasn't and I wouldn't have done it, because I was totally convinced of my innocence. There were other spinners whose quest for turn saw their elbow bend more than was allowed though, Tony Lock perhaps being the best known.
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trypewriter

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Re: England v Sri Lanka series
« Reply #264 on: June 06, 2014, 08:47:20 AM »

Going slightly off track, one of the major problems in the 60's, which caused a rule change in 1963, was that either front or back foot had to be within the crease on delivery, which encouraged bowlers to develop an exaggerated drag technique with their back foot, while their front foot was well down the wicket, some bowling quick from an estimated 18 yards.

'A six-foot five-inch "Blond Giant", Gordon Rorke was the fastest Australian bowler and accused of throwing by the English press, but this paled beside his excessive dragging. With his gigantic seven-foot stride and dragging his rear foot a yard over the crease he could be only eighteen yards from the batsman when he finally delivered the ball and at times seemed impossible to score from.[1][2][3] Fred Trueman was no balled for dragging his foot a couple of inches over the crease and wrote "It was really annoying as this umpire seemed to allow Gordon Rorke to bowl with both his feet over the front line!".[4] One picture showed him with his rear foot past the bowling crease before he had even begun to drag.[5] Colin Cowdrey joked "I was frightened that he might tread on my toes".[6]'
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tim2000s

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Re: England v Sri Lanka series
« Reply #265 on: June 06, 2014, 08:53:11 AM »

What, Lock was a chucker??? Well I never!  :o
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MD2812

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Re: England v Sri Lanka series
« Reply #266 on: June 06, 2014, 09:36:49 AM »

http://www.espncricinfo.com/ci-icc/content/current/story/750565.html

ICC look set to investigate suspicious bowling actions a lot more and also change the rules for Umpire's on questioning if someone is a chucker.

Also going to set up testing centre's outside of the one in Australia at the moment (Although I believe Senanyke is going to be tested in Cardiff this weekend)

But the exciting thing is:

They tested bowlers wearing sleeves in the U19 UAE cup earlier this year and hope to have it tested and approved by 2016.

This would clear everything up if these bowlers wear sleeves, unless their host nation refused it of course. Which would make them look very suspicious IMO.

I wonder if when wearing the sleeve it could report a no ball in real time. In the premier league, the goal line technology lights a green or red light on the refs watch within 1/4 of a second to say goal or not so it wouldn't hold the game up.

uknsaunders

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Re: England v Sri Lanka series
« Reply #267 on: June 06, 2014, 11:43:54 AM »

Stick sensors on suspect bowlers in games and we'll prove who is chucking. Also reduce the flex limit and force bowlers to bowl with straighter arms. No harm in that at all. I bet most bowlers are between 0-10 degrees and it's only the odd bowler who is above it.
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Sam

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Re: England v Sri Lanka series
« Reply #268 on: June 06, 2014, 12:32:28 PM »

Stick sensors on suspect bowlers in games and we'll prove who is chucking. Also reduce the flex limit and force bowlers to bowl with straighter arms. No harm in that at all. I bet most bowlers are between 0-10 degrees and it's only the odd bowler who is above it.

One of the cricinfo articles mentioned McGrath reached up to 13 and Brett Lee up to 14 at times!
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Buzz

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Re: England v Sri Lanka series
« Reply #269 on: June 06, 2014, 12:34:08 PM »

One of the cricinfo articles mentioned McGrath reached up to 13 and Brett Lee up to 14 at times!
Their issue was hyperextension - rather than a deliberate throw.
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